capello has found a way to kill some very good players. i really do think he stunted the development of zlatan...now, that guy has reached an overrated status--an expensive striker who cant for the life of him score on a consistant basis. i think capello will come to his senses. we were complaining about brazil and how parreira built an uncreative team--no creativity at all in the midfield. well, this seems to be the exact same problem that Madrid has. Sooner or later, I'd like to think that Capello will realize that Robinho needs to start, preferably in the place of his beloved player, Cassano. If things dont change, I can see no link-up between the slow midfield as RVN and Ronaldo up front. The best coaches adapt their style of play to suit the players they have. It shouldnt really be the other way around. Capello has tons of guys who are creative and exciting, and he has the potential to harm the team if he doesnt change his ways. As for Elano. It's hard to say. I think Shakhtar have a very good chance of making it out of the group stage. All the teams in the group arent particularly elite...although you could say that Valencia are much better now that they acquired Joaquin. Roma is solid, but they could lose either Mexes or Chivu to Madrid...and Totti seems to be on the decline. I dont know much about Olympiakos...except for the fact that Rivaldo is still alive and kicking on that team. I think this gives Elano a very good opportunity to increase his exposure in Europe...and both him and Shakhtar can reap the benefits if they wait on selling...especially Shakhtar, who stand to gain prize money, and increase the value of their star. I think a lot of teams now could use a player like Elano...and he isnt a bad buy at all. Madrid for one could use a two-way midfielder to replace Zidane...and I think that Elano could do the job. Bayern could use him as well, to cover the loss of Ballack--and possibly the loss Hargreaves. I'm not exactly sure of Elano's fate on the national team. I could see him moving back to the defensive midfield and working alongside Gilberto Silva.
This is where I have to disagree Leo... Fact is that Cassano has been playting very well, and just maybe earned a spot (Because as is OBVIOUS Capello has a major preference of him over all)... But ImO Robinho and Cassano compliment each other rather well... IdK on the pitch, but based on their styles they could perfectly play together... Who needs to warm the bench is Raul, and he may be our "Soul" but that doesnt change the fact that he has been playing like shit... Ronaldo needs to bench Raul, Robinho bench Becks, and solve our little L-RB problems... ... Ive been thinking this for a while, and seeing as Cassano has regained some of his level, as well as being Capello's obvious preference, Instead of having Robinho and Cassano fight for one spot (Which Cassano will always win) why not have them together? They would give speed, precision, dribbling, vision and SPARK to our attack, and having say RvN and R9 up there could be icing on the cake... I can understand us playing with a 7 man deffence at Camp Nou against Farca, but not here at Bernabeu against a team like Villareal (Fighting for 4-8th place)
sorry joel but i can never understand it! politics yeah but talentwise hell no! raul is just a shell of his former self man! at this point robinho is 1000 times better than raul! robinho is the next world soccer phenomenon for christsake! the world is waiting for him to burst out swinging and who the hell is cappello to delay this huh! please barca buy him please.. please... please!! he will be a perfect fit for barca!
i agree with you 100% because real madrid, in an indirect way may affect the success of the selecao because by trying to change the playing styles of these young selecao memebers like robinho, baptista and cicinho or not give them playing time, will affect their confidence and also stunt their developments and will affect their callups or their performances for the selecao even when called up! so i beg you Mr cappello if you dont have any plans for these players ,you should sell them now please!!! robinho preferably to barca!!
what do you expect celito, of course i will jump on you but seriously he is not that underdeveloped as you think! i he is at that level of maximum explosion into a legitimate world soccer megastar! i will give reasons why not! 1. he was treated unfairly by madrid! when he came to spain we all agreed that he needed time to adjust and he did! during the period from january up to march this year when ronaldo and raul were out due to injuries, madrid was on fire winning bunch of games in a row and robinho was their best player in that period! ask any madridista they will concur with me!inexplicably while he was playing his best ball, coach caro benched him in favor of raul!tell me if that wont help stunt his development and confidence.if he had continue to play from that period onward,we would have seen a different binho by now 2. during the world cup, he was surely the most exciting player or the lightning rod on the selecao side! the offence had a fantastic different look when he came on! suddenly ronaldihno looked better, ronaldo looked better because the amazing runs by robinho created spaces. it was evident that robinho was needed for the selecao to pose a strong challenge the rest of the way against better teams like france but CAP ignored him never played him when it mattered! you wanna tell me that this does not affect his development? ofcoz it does 3. now in madrid this new italian coach capello definitely has it in for robinho and despite good performances in the preseason by robson,capello still dont wanna give him a chance. i guess because he wants to give his countryman cassano a chance to prove himself at the expense of robinho!beckham, raul and cassano starting ahead of robinho? that is a joke man! these are the reasons my friend celito, that you keep saying he should improve his game because when he is on a roll to become the great player we all know he could be, these coaches prefer others for some reason and bench him! the coaches and their stubborness are the reasons for robsons present state because they wanna take credit for their teams success entirely by playing their own style instead of taking advantage of great talents like robinho and work with them ! its all about the ego of these coaches man! look at rijkaard at barca, what a smart coach. he never restricted dinho, nor eto'o nor messi. he just build his team around their talents and meshed them up pretty well and that is why barca is a great team and dinho, eto'o and messi also great players! the morale is that you dont try to change the talent or style of a player you just take advantage of it by creating a sytem they will flourish in them and not "the my way or the highway" approach! look at where it got us in the wc06, nowhere. and madrid will go nowhere too! any human being improves by constantly perfoming at the highest stage and any halt to that will stunt their dvelopment! its that simple!
its barca to you my friend, show some respect to the best club in the world,with the best player in the world, the best striker in the world, with one of the best young players in the world{robinho the other} alright
Barcelona won't take on Robinho though. They have no need for him, and no space for him. Eto is a wonderfull player, Deco is holding the middle, Ronaldinho the touchline and Messi the other touchline.
with the current scheme that capello has though, it's cassano who is starting over robinho. i'd rather see robinho over cassano. i dont know enough about cassano. from what ive seen in the preseason, he hasnt impressed me as much as RVN or even Robinho. I just think its pure favoritism...just like Parreira and Brazil. As for Raul...well, I dont think he's anymore deserving to start than Cassano. He's still resting on his laurels from years ago and is getting away with it. This has been the case with Ronaldo at times too. I think sooner or later, Capello will realize that the team needs more creativity and he will put in Robinho...either at the expense of Cassano or Raul.
still if he puts Robinho in, then he has to give him the freedom to express himself and not restricite him on what he can do with the ball if he restricites him then Robinho needs to get the hell out because it will harm his career, Robinho needs to do what he does best and thats to dribble,shoot and score, not be restricited to a direct passing only system
For the thread title... Real Madrid aren't ruining Robinho. Robinho's the one that signed the contract with Madrid. Robinho's the one that said he wanted to go there. Robinho's the one that should've known that $hit happens, things change, you better be ready to adapt. It's not Real Madrid's fault if Robinho develops. With the price tage he commanded, and the wages he demanded and make, hell, it's Robinho that will ultimately ruin Robinho and no-one else. Let's just hope that doesn't happen. Having said that, I've always thought that there were areas in Robinho's game where he could've developed and turned into one of the world's best in two particular positions on the field. 1: Right wing. 2: playmaking midfielder. He had the ball-skills and IMO had the vision. But he never really did it. Imagine, with his ability, on the wing... getting open and delivering amazing crosses. But as it is, he's a very good forward who has some stiff competition in the names of the political choic (Raul), the proven goalscorer (Van Nistelrooy), the unpredictable but 'when he's on, he's on striker (Cassano) and the big "???" (no pun intended, but Ronaldo). Not to mention a manager that will without question put in a new system. I'm not surprised Robinho's on the bench now. I've always thought he shouldv'e hit Holland first with PSV, and I think Arsenal would have been terrific for him too. But he's in a situation now where he has to think long and hard about where he would be best utilized, and the place on the field where he'll have the opportunity to do it. As for the Van Persie comparisons, I think that Van Persie is a terrific player, but to me, not as good as Robinho, and doesn't have the same potential as Robinho. But then again they have different approaches to the game and bring different things to your team... I think with Robinho though, you have that little bit of something special in the player's ability and.... God given talent.
Thats true, but Cassano has played fairly well... And its one of my points as well, if the current system has Cassano or Robinho, and Raul playing it safe, maybe the scheme should be changed so that Its not Robson or Cassano, but rather they play together... Not just because it could hurt the "Camerinos", but Capello is clearly Biased for Cassano... And will always give him the advantage, even if Robinho plays better... So if we have them fighting for that spot, it will only make Cassano win every time... Also, the other who needs to be becnhed (Yes even for Robinho) is godawful Becks... ... Its not Real Madrid that are ruining him, but Capello.... Especially with his marked Bias for certain players (Salgado, RC, Raul, Becks, Cassano) Roninho is a SS striker that has had to adpat to many new positions, but is still able to score regularly, and provide greatness to the attack... The thing is, that Robinho has earned his spot on the starting eleven (AS he did inside the WC) but because of Bias (CAP and Capello, the "Cap"s) he hasnt got a starting chance... What Elado says of Robinho and Raul is also strue... Why did Caro bench him... Raul played just as ************, but he is RAUL!! But as it stands now, the most suited to replace Zidane inside the games is Robinho... not Cassano or Raul.
I just think its pure favoritism...just like Parreira and Brazil. As for Raul...well, I dont think he's anymore deserving to start than Cassano. He's still resting on his laurels from years ago and is getting away with it. This has been the case with Ronaldo at times too. I think sooner or later, Capello will realize that the team needs more creativity and he will put in Robinho...either at the expense of Cassano or Raul.
MICHEL Jordan? I like that. MICHEL, that's funny. btw: I absolutely agree about Robinho. I sincerely hope he leaves Real. He need to go some where he is at least one of the main features. His talent is indeed being wasted over the last 1.5 years.
Didn't Owen earn a spot too? He was smart and left when he noticed it wasn't about "earning spots" in Real Madrid. Everyone knows how things work in elite European clubs in the post Bosman-ruling era: there will always be some accomplished stars relegated to the bench for backup or super-sub options. No one put a gun to Robinho's head, he went to Madrid because he wanted to. Much on the contrary, he was completely unethical in pressuring his former club (Santos) for a transfer while his contract was still running, when the club publicly announced they didn't want to sell him. Sort of a Reyes or A.Cole situation. He could be smart and come back to Brazil, to a league that fits his style properly, but I guess his next destination will be an obscure role in some French or Turkish club. Or maybe he can be a starter for clubs like Villareal or Bolton Wanderers. As far as I'm concerned, I don't feel sympathy for players like him, always looking for greener pastures and throwing loyalty out of the window. He can rot in the reserves of any club for all I care.
Hasnt Robinho said more then often that he wants to go back to Santos and play, while he has a contract woth Real? He simply saw that he needed to move upwards in Football, and nowdays the theory is that when you go to Europe thats what you get, a step up... About loyalty, Baptista showed Real the most loyalty you can show, as well as professionalism, and where did it get him... at Arsenal so Capello dows whatever the ******** he wants with that team... Not saying that Loyalty is bad, its great, but the fact that you want to become better has nothing to do with loyalty... Like if you are at a X company, and one day IBM comes to your doors offering you a cointract, you may love X company, but the fact is that to move on and become better at what you do at a much bigger place, where you will be a more recognized person... It's not Unethical to tell your Club that they offered you something that has you enthusiastic... Puyol pressured Farca directors to make his contract better because Real made an offer... Is that unethical? No, its moving up in your career... And sometimes you have to do these things to move on... Its unethical when you go to the media and not to the Directors and comment on these things, but not when you go to the Directives straight away... Also, Robinho will probably leave anyways by January... Real M. subs are Reyes, Cassano and Guti, who Capello has a bias for and are of his preference for Robinho... Whcih leaves the Kings Cup for Robinho, if even that much...
I don’t have a problem with a player wanting to move on. I fully agree with the many examples you present. The unethical aspect in the behavior of these players (Robinho, A.Cole, Reyes, etc) is the fact they brought their wish of leaving to the press and public, when it’s an interna corporis matter. As for wanting to go to Europe in order to upgrade his career as a footballer, first the guy needs to consider whether Europe fits his style. Long before the talks of Robinho moving to Madrid started, I was one of the people pointing out it could easily turn into the next Denilson move. At the time Robinho was being compared to Pele. Now he has wasted a season as a bench warmer. Great dribblers with weak physique and finishing tend not to work in European football, that’s almost like stating the obvious. I remember a similar great Brazilian player from the 90s – Edilson from Palmeiras. In many ways, he had the same Robinho style, so instead of moving to Europe where he knew his chances of success were slim, he stayed in Brazil and later made his money in Japan, where he was very successful too.
Who is shining at Real Madrid? So many superstars have gone there and flopped, and with all the so-called talent they still haven't won anything in Spain or Europe yet. Robinho probably should have thought out his decision instead of being in such a rush to leave Brazil, Ronaldinho left around the same age as him, found a Spanish club that actually plays as a team and became the best player in the world. I hope he doesn't become another should have been after being called Pele's successor, for me he was Brazil's best player along with Ze Roberto at the cup.
Well ... you obviously don't consider facts that: 1 - For the success he had at Santos, he actually stayed longer than many other players stayed winning 2 Brazilian championships in the process. So he showed plenty of loyalty. 2 - His mother had been kidnapped. So security is an issue in Brazil for these players. 3 - Santos was playing hardball in order to get more money out of Real Madrid. It wasn't all just love for the player and really wanting him to stay.
You ignore the fact that Ronaldinho went PSG first. His transfer saga was worse than Robinho's. He didn't play for months. And he didn't produce as much at PSG. Ronaldo left Brazil at 17-18 years of age. Look at how he has done. So there is no correct formula for success. It really depends on a variety of factors.
Ethics don't exist in football so I really think it's a moot point. Both teams and players backstab each other to further their agendas. Good cases the other way around were Baptista, Beckham, RVN, and Keane. Consider it a promotion of sorts. Why stick around bussing tables for a lower wage if you're more qualified to do something more challenging and profitable? Who wants to ply their trade in relative obscurity in Japan or Turkey? Or not get paid for weeks on end at a Brazilian club. That's how I see it. And there's no indication that Robinho will be a bench warmer. He certainly didnt waste a season last year since he was a starter for most of the season...and improved significantly towards the end of the season. When Capello wakes up and realizes that his current line up won't function, he will put in Robinho into the line-up at the expense of Raul or Cassano. It's hard to judge Robinho at this point because we havent seen a player like him before. I dont even think Denilson or Edilson are comparable players. He's had a year to adapt and I think he can adapt. It's a question of the coach giving him a chance--as opposed to maintaining a Parreira-like stubborness.
I posted this in another thread but it's probably relevant here as well. Quote: Originally Posted by Feanor Robinho - his explosive pace and dribbling skills could do very well in Barca. Plus there would be less pressure on him than in Madrid and his style would fit very well in Barca's own style, which I consider the most "brazilian" team in Europe. No wonder that brazilian players simply flourish here. You make a good point here. You would think players should take that kind of thing in consideration. It really unsettles me when SA, African, and other players lose their minds at the prospect of playing these big clubs like Milan, Real, Chelsea, and even Barca (to a degree) irrespective of the situation. I can understand it to a degree. If I were offered a chance to play for Barca, I'd be out of my mind but frankly, I would probably prefer to go to a club like Sevilla or Villareal knowing that the team would be built around me or that I'd be a key player there. Everyone wanna play at the biggest stages but you should consider other factors as well. Also , if you play for clubs like inter milan, Roma, Arsenal, Liverpool, Valencia, Sevilla, bordeaux, Monaco, etc..., I don't think you should ever wanna leave your club for the likes of Barca, Madrid, AC Milan, Juve, Man U, Marseille, and those club should NEVER sell their key players those so called bigger clubs. If you're have some kind of problem with your club that's a different story. P.S. My comments aren't necesarrily about Robinho, but I wanted to make a general point.
The one thing that I am really concerned with is that Robinho will be never again the same exact exciting finta filled, fun loving player he was at Santos. He might become a better player, but Real Madrid has left its impact. I also want to point to the same thing occuring at Manchester United with Ronaldo. At Sporting Ronaldo was always smiling, tricks from every direction, now clearly he will most likely become a better player, but the league and team he plays for changed how he plays. You can see it in how he moves on the field. Sometimes these leagues, and coaches restriction actually hinder a player more, they end up thinking too much. Doubting thier talent, thier abilities and lose confidence. This is something I don't want to see. Yes Robinho will evidently become a better player, but I would still love to him do what he learned to do in Brasil, at Santos. I fell in Love with that player.