Razov trade rumor

Discussion in 'Chicago Fire' started by Fanaddict, Nov 13, 2004.

  1. swedcrip34

    swedcrip34 New Member

    Mar 17, 2004
    http://www.bigapplesoccer.com/article.php?article_id=1512

    serious rumor of Armas and Thornton for Clark and Pope (Metrostars)

    Walker then sent to Chivas

    hold-up that Wilt doesn't want to see Armas "soul", go

    I think it'd be a good trade for the Fire. Pope has a few MLS years left IMO though disappointing this year. I'd take Clark over Armas with an eye on the future. Armas is 32 though I have no idea how many years he has left
     
  2. fatboy15

    fatboy15 New Member

    Mar 31, 2000
    LaPorte, IN, USA
    alright, i see what your point is about Armas not running the offense, but i think he's still very effective at organizing the team. when Armas was on the field, the team just seemed to work better positionally and keep their shape alot more effectively.

    i don't think marsh could do a better job of running the offense then Armas, but i would like to see them give Capano a try next year. there've been a few times when he's playing that he's done something pretty impressive, and if those are glimpes of what could be, i say start the rebuilding of the offense around him.
     
  3. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    Pope could help us go 3-5-2 but could he stay healthy?

    -----------Ring
    ---Pope--Curtain--Brown
    -------Clark--Marsch
    --?--------?-------Mapp
    -----Herron--Ralph
     
  4. theburden

    theburden Member

    Jul 11, 2002
    MDSC head brewer
    I do not want Eddie Pope on this team. He could prove me wrong but I don't think he is the answer to our problems.
     
  5. Greddy

    Greddy Member

    Jun 24, 2003
    Chicago
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    More like
    ----------------- Ring
    ------ Pope ---- Curtain --- Caballero ----
    ------------- Clark -- Marsch ------------
    --?---- Williams/Capano/New Guy----Mapp
    ----------- Herron --- Ralph -------------
     
  6. IlliniFire

    IlliniFire New Member

    Dec 10, 2003
    Urbana, Illinois
    Plus, we already have Curtin and Caballero for CB, we need outside backs
     
  7. B Rock

    B Rock Member

    Oct 7, 2004
    I'd do it in a hearbeat. I still believe defense was more of a problem last year (the loss of Bocanegra killed us) and that a healthy Mapp, more developed Capano, healthy Marsch, skilled Clark, healthy Razov, whole year of Herron, and revitalized Ralph with a real attacking option (not Dipsy or Jaqua) up top with him all year would MORE than solve our attacking options. In short, if this move is on the table and we don't jump at it I'd be stunned.

    ----------------- Ring----------------
    ------ Pope ---- Curtain --- Caballero ----
    ------------- Clark -- Marsch ------------
    --Williams/Bucky--Capano-------Mapp--
    ----------- Herron --- Ralph -------------

    With Razov or an attacking midfielder allocation off the bench(obviously both aren't attainable salary cap wise), Pause, Jaqua, Gray, etc. I'd be absolutley thrilled with this squad.
     
  8. dabes2

    dabes2 Member

    Jun 1, 2003
    Chicago
    Well we would probably be a 4-4-2 if we made this trade and would still need 2 competent wing backs.

    If this deal goes down, I guess Johny Walker will be the guy at Chivas and not Rimando. He can translate practices back into english for the coach.
     
  9. bunge

    bunge BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 24, 2000
    Dipsy and Jaqua? Nevermind....
     
  10. bunge

    bunge BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 24, 2000
    I just think that if we lose Marsch or Armas, our entire team is going to have to change radically. Those two players define most of what this team is. Maybe it's a good idea to move one of them, because we need a change. But I sure wouldn't want to play against either.
     
  11. Chicago1871

    Chicago1871 Member

    Apr 21, 2001
    Chicago
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If the Fire lose one or (God forbid) both of them, some bigtime leadership needs to be brought in. I mean Nowakesque leadership. Some the team can respect, learn from, and be motivated by. When Jesse was on the field the Fire were a different team this season. Without two of the most veteran leaders that remain on the Fire, I'd be afraid that play would stay at the same energetic level as this past season.
     
  12. Chicago1871

    Chicago1871 Member

    Apr 21, 2001
    Chicago
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Jesus, with the addition of Pope the defense would be slow. Don't get me wrong he's a talent, but he's on his way down, isn't as quick as he used to be, and is just another guy who'd be gone for WCQ games. I don't know anything about Caballero, but what I've read here, but he doesn't strike me as a speedy youngster ;).

    The Fire need a young guy with wheels to cover in the back. Maybe a fourth back, I don't know, but we can't have two old guys and Curtin in front of Ring...well, we could, the leadership would be huge, but I'm just not sure it's a great idea.
     
  13. dabes2

    dabes2 Member

    Jun 1, 2003
    Chicago
    That trade doesn't solve any of our immediate needs for a playmaker and a few wing-backs, but we've got lot's of offseason left to go. I think the deal would be very favorable for the Fire over the long-term
    - We get the high potential young player in Ricardo Clarke.
    - Thornton should be ignored as he was never ours really. We just signed him to hold him for another AEG team.
    - Armas for Pope is a decent straight up trade. We might argue about it's merits, but both guys are older and highly paid but still very able to contribute. It would be extremely tough to lose Armas's leadership, but Pope is still a very good player and a leader by example too.
     
  14. NotAbbott

    NotAbbott Member

    Oct 11, 1999
    My Own Little World
    I'm as big an Armas fan as the next guy, but I'd be more inclined to make this deal than not. Yeah, Pope is getting up there, and didn't have a great year this year, but you could have said the same of Robin Fraser in 2003. He's a big reason Columbus won the Supporters' Shield, in spite of having an uber-crappy coach.

    It might mean a 4-4-2, though.

    Later,
    COZ
     
  15. jjayg

    jjayg New Member

    May 9, 2002
    Rolling Ghettos, IL
    Don't really know to what level of truth there is in this rumor but I too would make this trade.
    Armas is a fantastic player and leads by example and it would really suck to not only lose him but lose him to a division rival. But he has limited years left. It's just a fact. And Clark is very young and very talented. If a team can get a player that can possibly be an assett for the next 8-10 years by letting go of a player that has only a few left, then I say it's not a terrible thing. Pope will be an instant upgrade to our defense no matter how we end up using him. Just having him on the team will help because he is a leader by example, similiar to Armas. A change of scenery for him might revitalize him a bit too.
    I break the trade up like this- We are getting a good young player with a lot of potential for Zach, who we kept only for his trade value and then we are swapping Pope for Armas. Players of similiar age and leadership ability. Armas is/was the heart of our team as has been said but the team has changed. Maybe it's time to rip the guts out and have something new alltogether. The past is great and it's correct to cherish it but sometimes holding on to it too long for sentimental reasons is just not the way to go.
    I would be for this trade if it happened but of course wouldn't be dissapointed to keep Armas.
     
  16. bing1985

    bing1985 Member

    Jun 14, 2004
    Near West ChiSuburbs
    No no no no no no
    I hate Pope. He no longer belongs on the Nats - He doesn't deserve the "best XI" honor the league just piled om him at the awards banquet. He is past his prime and it will only get worse. I hate him with the Metros, hate him on the Nats - I would hate him also with the Fire. Stupid stupid bad idea.

    I'm not for it.
     
  17. sch2383

    sch2383 New Member

    Feb 14, 2003
    Northern Virginia
    What you need to remember is the track record of players going to the Metros, sucking while they are there, and then greatly improving once they leave.
     
  18. Chicago1871

    Chicago1871 Member

    Apr 21, 2001
    Chicago
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is a very valid point. I'm not sure it's worth banking on though.
     
  19. prk166

    prk166 BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 8, 2000
    Med City
    Then he'll retire and lead the Fire to a championship in 07 as a rookie head coach? :)
     
  20. prk166

    prk166 BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 8, 2000
    Med City
    How about Reyna and Pope?
     
  21. Chicago1871

    Chicago1871 Member

    Apr 21, 2001
    Chicago
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I gotta counter with "Andy Williams." I know it's not a strong counter, but it is one nonetheless.
     
  22. jjayg

    jjayg New Member

    May 9, 2002
    Rolling Ghettos, IL
    To me, Pope isn't the important part of the deal, Clark is.
    We have Jimmy. Pope would just be whatever we can get out of him as far as I'm concerned. But I'd love to have a player like Clark to play for the next decade with Capano and Mapp (assuming in my perfect world that all these guys live up to the high expectations).
     
  23. Thomas A Fina

    Thomas A Fina Member

    Mar 29, 1999
    Hell
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Actually he was our best player in 2003. He just sucked this year.

    But you are right.

    Every time I see Jaime Moreno, I get pissed
     
  24. Thomas A Fina

    Thomas A Fina Member

    Mar 29, 1999
    Hell
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    see, I would have went with Orlando Perez, but that's just me.

    edit : oops. My bad. We're talking about improving aren't we. Sorry.

    The fact is in Metroland we are all feeling very burned by Moreno's actions (basically he asked out at the beginning of the year and told Bob he wasn't going to be 100%. Which was pure and utter ****************.) Between him and Balboa and Matthaus and Lalas and Dooley most of us are a bit gun shy about bringing in any veteran anymore as they seem to quit on the Metros.

    Metro has to be disbanded. It has turned decent people like Bob Bradley into blithering idiots who need help putting on their shoes in the morning. Nobody who touches it's miasmic effects gets out 100% whole.

    (IOW, you guys would be nuts - we're talking Michael Jackson crazy here - not to do this trade. You lose Armas, you still have Marsch as the undisputeds leader. Or vice-versa. From a leadership standpoint : recoverable. You lose in essence a back-up goalkeeper. You gain a defender possibly on his last legs, possibly ready to be hooked up to the juvenation machine and a talented D-Mid for the next ten years.)
     
  25. The Fire needs a creative playmaker in midfield, ala Peter Nowak. That, and a left sided defender, who we hope is Caballero, and the Fire will be back in contention.
     

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