Rate Argentina's coaches this century

Discussion in 'Argentina: Selecciones Nacionales' started by Milan05, Nov 5, 2016.

  1. Milan05

    Milan05 Member

    Dec 2, 2015
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Biesla (1998-2004)
    Pekerman (2004-2006)
    Basile (2006-2008)
    Maradona (2008-2010)
    Batista (2010-2011)
    Sabella (2011-2014)
    Martino (2014-2016)


    How would you rate these coaches from best to worst in terms of how they performed with Argentina? How well did La Albiceleste play under them, and how well did they do in a major tournament?


    (don't think Bauzza has been given enough time yet to be judged).
     
  2. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Century means 100 years span... then Menotti should be on the list. Also Guilermo Stabille who won 6 Copa America as manager.
     
  3. Milan05

    Milan05 Member

    Dec 2, 2015
    Club:
    AC Milan
    I was talking about the 2000's century.
     
  4. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    The best football was played under Bielsa, however, the performance at the WC was disastrous and it casts a negative mark on his tenure, so I would go with Pekerman as #1.

    Pekerman
    Bielsa
    Sabella
    Martino
    Basile
    Maradona
    Batista

    Also, I notice it's seven different managers in eighteen years. Too unstable, especially for an elite NT.
     
  5. locoxriver

    locoxriver Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 22, 2005
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    1. Bielsa
    2. Sabella
    3. Pekerman
    -----
    4. Martino
    5. The rest are so shitty that they don't deserve to be ranked

    I put that line after Pekerman because those 3 are really on a different level than the other 4 DTs (Maradona/Batista/Basile/Martino). Not just if you look at the results, but also in terms of their tactical expertise and extensive knowledge of the game.

    IMO Bielsa was the best... that team played brilliant football, as do most of the teams he's in charge of. The WC was a blunder that tarnished his image, but I still believe he was the best and could have reverted that image had he chosen to stay.

    Sabella follows, as he not only got us to our first WC final in nearly 30 years, but also because his team displayed an attractive brand of offensive soccer in the WCQ, which they cruised through finishing in the top spot (no easy feat, as seen in our struggles in the prior and following/current World Cup Qualifiers). We saw Argentina defeat Chile 4-1, Uruguay 3-0, Paraguay 5-2, and so on in those qualifiers, while the change to a more defensive, solid overall scheme in the WC itself proved Sabella's studying of the game.

    Pekerman is third.... his team played absolutely fantastic football (Germany 2006 was a joy to watch) and he deserves credit for previously building that generation during his time as Youth NT coach. However, a lot of the decision he would make were catastrophic, specially in the match that left us out vs. Germany (bringing in Cambiasso for Riquelme.... excluding Saviola, who was one of the best players of the entire WC, from the match... playing Cruz.... having Ayala shoot one of the PKs... the list goes on). We played a good WC, but it could have ended in a much better way if Pekerman used more logic.

    After those three, the rest were a disaster.

    Martino is ok, but just wasn't the man for the job. I don't think he was up to it, but he certainly was no where near as bad as Batista, Maradona, and Basile.

    Batista should have never even been a candidate for the job.. the fact that he coached us is mind baffling. It secured him a couple million $$$ by giving him job opportunities in China that he would have never gotten had he not been our NT coach, but his tenure did absolutely nothing for us.

    Maradona I don't need to say much about. Losing 4-0 to Germany, 6-1 to Bolivia, and barely scraping qualification to the WC itself says everything.

    Basile was absolute shit too. He may have won stuff in the early 90's, but good lord was his two year stint in the NT from 2006 to 2008 bad.... and this was with him inheriting the solid team created by Pekerman! He undid all the good work and took us on a spiraling decline that seemed would never end until Sabella showed up. Horrendous term as coach.

    So there you have it.... my 2 cents.
     
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  6. SupaMario

    SupaMario Member+

    Aug 31, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CA Tigre
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Sabella is #1 for me.

    Outside of managing Estudiantes, he was an assistant for most of his career before taking the helm for Argentina. I have to put him atop because he is the manager that got the most out of Messi. He finally found a system where Messi could flourish. Plus, the team counter-attacked with such menace, it was a thing of beauty. Not to mention, he knew the defense was out of sync during qualifiers, he was never under any illusions. Plus, during the Mundial, he took out Fede and played Micho when Fede was playing poorly. The team managed to get to a final with most of our forwards being injured. His only blunder was taking out Pocho for Kun in the final during HT.

    Loco is #2. As others have said we played some incredible attacking football. The World Cup came a year too early for us under Bielsa. He had plenty of blunders at 2002. Playing Bati instead of Crespo, he didn't take the likes of Riquelme, D'Alessandro and Saviola to the World Cup and took a 35 year old Caniggia(Who managed to get a red card on the bench). I am a fan of his but you want to talk about a stubborn mule who plays Russian roulette with 6 bullets in a 7 chamber revolver. We were on the edge of victory at the CA 2 years later and he won a Olympic gold and then resigned.

    Pekerman is #3.

    He knew how to make a team click and bring them as a unit. My favorite game in the last 10-15 years was when we beat Brasil 3-1 and we were up 3-0 at HT. But Pekerman was a flawed man. He excluded Pupi out of the 2006 team. Was he seen as a mufa? Who knows, but I think Pupi was excluded because of the 2005 Confederations Cup. He had a few mistakes, including one vs Mexico which led to a goal. But for goodness sake you took Scaloni instead of Pupi? At the tournament we were great but again Pekerman proved to be a choker. Did Pato's injury throw his plans out of whack? Perhaps but for all the good Pekerman did he managed to ruin our best chance of winning a 3rd star. Plus, look at him for Colombia, his team couldn't even beat the worst Brasilian team that I had ever seen. I'd take Pekerman back only as a youth manager but I wouldn't be thrilled with him coming back. Then again, look at the managers we have had in recent memory, I'd take him over Martino, Basile, Batista, and Diego.

    The rest.... I do not care for, its a round robin of a bunch of clowns.
     
  7. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Excellent summary. I still like Pekerman, despite his game management weakness, over Sabella for the football displayed at the actual WC but your argument is valid.

    The only reason Batista got the job was over 25-year anniversary nostalgia for the WC86 team, and having won the gold medal at Beijing a couple of years before.
     
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  8. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    #8 Rattlehead, Nov 7, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2016
    My pick is pretty much the same. Pekerman did won silverware at youth level, most successfull youth manager in history in fact. Those players would grace the NT for the next 10 years. Roman , Aimar, Saviola Cambiasso, and countless others.

    Bielsa , people tend to forgot he also won silverware (Argentina first Olympic title) with astonishing record 6 win out of 6 , 17 goals scored without conceided. Thrashing Italy in semifinal that even had Cannavaro at the back and beating rival Uruguay. Tevez won the golden boot too... I doubt any other manager/team will ever emulate that feat at Olympic. He also retired from NT after beating Peru convincingly. What happen in 2002 WC probably what people will always remember, sadly.

    The fact is, 2002 was a micky mouse tournament with most of the big teams already dead before second round, including reigning champion. Even Holland did not make it to the tournament! Germany faced none of the big team, the easiest route to the final in history. Brazil faced England in QF and the rest was Confederation cup level opponent.

    Its big blunder to trust mostly the same guy like in previous WC and they're not even in good shape anymore. Caniggia and Batigol arent playing at the same level they used to be. Bati scored merely 6 goals that season , mostly sidelined by ankle injury. Menotti did the same in 1982, he only add Diego and Diaz but he didnt made Diego the vocal point of the team, neither Diaz as main forward. Bielsa brought Crespo, only played him for few minutes.

    Sabella deserve huge credit. He's the reason why Argentina made it to WC final for the 5th time. He took a trainwreck team and finished the qualifier on the top and qaulified with few games remaining. The players did not arrive at WC in good shape physically... Messi suffered long injury earlier that year, Kun was injured 4 times that year, Angelito came to the WC after running 120 minutes till very end of season to delivers thropy for RM. Pipita also suffered ankle injury, and just returned in Copa Italia final right before the WC. Dont forget that Sabella Estudiantes could have beaten Barcelona for CWC final if wasnt Messi's goal ironically. So he has good track record leading to the WC, just like Pekerman and Bielsa.

    Sure he made blunder by putting injured Kun in final but lets face it... Higuain, Messi and Palacio had 1 vs 1 chance before Germany scored their only goal, and that's not Sabella's fault! We created more danger in first half than Germany. There's also a moment where Messi run passed Germany defence and squared the box but Pipita wasnt there. Germany already got 2 yellows before HT. The biggest blunders would be Pipita's shot.

    ...and if you wanna see Sabella defensive ability, watch the game against Belgium in second half. We only had 1 goal lead , yet I never felt like we're gonna lose that game after Pipita's goal.
     
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  9. RiverGaucho

    RiverGaucho Member+

    Jan 23, 2010
    Buenos Aires
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    An interesting note on Pekerman i read in a book called "Asi Jugamos" which is a series of interviews compiled by two journalists from the protagonists of the biggest world cup matches in history. For the Germany match in 2006, not one of Abbondonzieri, Leo Franco, or Oscar Ustari received any instructions from Pekerman or his staff on the history of the German penalty taker. On the flip side, Lehmann, the German keeper, received a distinct history of the main argentine penalty specialists, and he consulted the paper before every penalty, guessing correctly each time and saving 2 of the 4.

    When asked by the goalies on any information regarding the history of the german penalty specialists, he said the statistics were irrelevant since if a player shot to the left in his last 5 penalties, he could easily change on his 6th. This is an archaic idea. It was putting his keeper's completely in the dark. Back in 2006, youtube was not the phenomenon it is now. It was the responsibility of Pekerman and his staff to prepare his team to the best of his ability and he didn't do it. Franco guessed wrong on all four penalties. Sure, even had he been given an analysis, he still could have guessed wrong, or even guessed right and still not made the save, but he was underprepared and it is the fault of Pekerman. I don't care if you're a soccer coach, a politician, a ceo, a restaurant manager, but you must have your employees, or in the case of a coach, your players, the prepared to the best of your ability and Pekerman deliberately didn't do that.

    For that reason, I say:

    1. Sabella- made world cup final. Enough said.
    2. Bielsa- I think he is a bit of a charlatan. His record in terms of wins and losses in his career is very poor. However, what happened in 2002 was a fluke. Argentina would have beaten sweden 9 out of 10 times. Even the England match, Argentina was better than the opponent. He is too inflexible in my mind, but he really had some bad luck.
    3. Pekerman- His bad luck was really a product of his own doing. Not preparing the goalies for the penalty shoot out, the subs before that, leaving Zanetti at home, leaving Walter Samuel also at home. Playing Scaloni and Collocini... I like Pekerman more than anything for what he did with the youth teams, stressing sportmanship something we have lost under the unpresentable Grondona Jr. who had his players insulting and taunting Uruguay, which to my mind is still the most disgusting thing I have seen from Argentine soccer other than Boca Juniors supporters attacking River Plate players with pepper spray.

    The rest are all a complete disaster. Not one of them deserves a mention.
     
  10. illusion

    illusion Member+

    Aug 26, 2005
    From Hell
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    1. Marcelo Bielsa is a coaching genius and probably the most influential Argentinian coach in the past 30 years. He should be given another chance with the National team.
    2. Sabella- I didn't enjoy his football but at least he made the WC final.
    3. Pekerman
     
  11. RiverGaucho

    RiverGaucho Member+

    Jan 23, 2010
    Buenos Aires
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    How was Bielsa influential? After he resigned, came Pekerman and Basile, both of whom threw Bielsa's tactical system out the window and built their teams around Riquelme with a classic Argentine 4-3-1-2 formation.

    No Argentine coach has played three at the back since, either.

    So while I agree he is influential in terms of certain coaches like Guardiola, his style was not influential in terms of the Argentine national team in the least bit
     

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