After the Gold Cup performances of Zimmerman, Robinson and Sands so far, would you rank the CBs in the USMNT player pool. Which ones would be in your top 23 if the WC were today?
I certainly wouldn't. But whatever. Zimm, Robinson and Sands have all increased their value in the GC. I like Sands a lot because of his positional flexibility.... but if you don't play him at the 6 or at center CB in a 3CB backline then his value added decreases a bit. 2 CB Backline Order 1. Brooks 2. Richards 3. McKenzie 4. Zimmerman 5. CCV 6. Robinson 7. EPB 8. Sands 3 CB Backline 1. Brooks 2. Richards 3. Sands 4. Robinson 5. Zimmerman 6. McKenzie In the end I think the bottom list of players (3 CB Backline) are going to be the ones rotating into WCQ.
Zimmerman and Robinson both took a step up for me. I'd really like to see Miazga again with the national team to make sure it's not recency bias but I think I'd feel better with both of those guys than Miazga at this point and I would not have said that going into the tournament. My A pairing would be Brooks and Richards. I think this is becoming fairly obvious, especially if Richards goes back to starting at Hoffenheim. Brooks defense scares me. He needs a partner with real defensive chops next to him and for me, Richards and Robinson fit that bill the best. I think my B pairing would be Zimmerman and Robinson. I don't think Robinson is a very good passer and Zimmerman is serviceable but I'm not comfortable relying on him to break lines dozens of times a game. However, I think this is the soundest defensive pairing out of these three groups. My next pairing would be Miazga and McKenzie. I've always been a big fan of Miazga and Mexico game notwithstanding, I really like what McKenzie offers. These guys are both proficient passers and good defenders. Along with Robinson, we've seen them both make some mistakes but only the truly elite defenders play error free for 90 minutes. For me, the second and third pairings are almost interchangeable but I really think we need someone like Robinson in case Richards goes down and I think Zimmerman is his most natural partner out of that group. There are a few more that are worthy of a look like CCV, interested to see Kessler since he was one of the few who looked up to the task at Olympic qualifying, EPB has always been an enigma to me, Glad is still young enough and a solid player for RSL so I wouldn't throw him out just yet. Same with Trusty. Other than CCV, this group is January Camp guys though. I don't really want to see more of Sands as a CB in a four man backline, it just doesn't suit his strengths imo. Sands needs to be at the 6. Also don't want to see more of Pines for a while. There is some talent there but I'm happy to let him hone his craft a bit before seeing him again.
Lol, what? Those 3 are all serviceable backups IMO. Brooks is still the main man, and if we can get Richards some experience in WCQ I expect he'll be #2. These guys are competing for those backup places, and I think they're all pretty close. Throw in Miazga and McKenzie (and I like CCV), and it's a pretty big group of similarly-good guys.
Not sure how I would rate them but I feel we now have 5-6 CBs I'd be comfortable with in Qualifying which is a HUGE improvement over where we have been in the past. Can't remember a time where we had 4 guys I would have been ok with. Considering they are prone to get the most cards I think improving our depth the past 2 tournaments has been vital and a nice revelation. Pluse we have found guys who can play 3 cbs together giving up more flexability.
1. Brooks Contenders: 2. Richards, most upside 3. Zimmerman, most leadership, best in air 4. Miles, best 1v1 defender 5. Sands, need possession Club form will dictate: 6. CCV 7. Miazga 8. McKenzie 9. Palmer-Brown TBD: 10. Long, if he returns 11. Ream, If we want the experience 12. Che, if we want the youth 13. Maloney, if we want the unexpected.
My current top 4 just based on individual traits - 1. Brooks 2. Richards 3. Miazga 4. Zimmerman with Sands as the backup 6/emergency CB That said, i dont think those 4 make for the best compatible pairings - Miazga and Brooks dont go well together. And Zimmerman is kinda simialr to both, as well. Not enough spped overall in that 4. I think it might come down to how well the players compliment each other and what kind of pairings can be made. I prefer athleticism, 1 on 1 defending and passing precision at the position. .
Im not sure Sands has really been able, or ever will be able to, play to his ideal position with the national team, so we haven't seen the best if him yet. (As an NYCFC supporter, im baffled that he just debuted and is not in Europe yet) His greatest strength, and the main reason I think he is firmly in the 23 right now, is his flexibility. He simply provides more tactical options than almost any of his peers, and that can be immensely valuable, especially during a tournament or 3-game week of WCQ's. His versatility has somewhat hurt his development imo. He has never consistently been a 6 or a CB. He's played in 3 back lines, 4 backs, 3cb's with wing backs. Everything really. I only passively watched this tournament, so I can't rate him much, but I've seen him perform against MLS teams that were better than Martinique and Jamaica. He's got game. He's not best XI right now, at least until he gets to Europe and grows a little further, but what he brings in versatility sets him apart from others.
Ranking them is too subjective as it depends on a variety of factors like fitness, opponent, etc. But I will say that I am pretty dang excited about our depth at CB. Zimmerman, Sands, and Robinson have certainly shown some really good stuff. Pines....ah no thanks, at least at this point in time. He was not even ok. With the depth it also gives us the ability to play with 3 CBs and 5 in the midfield.
as long as its not 5 defenders....recipe for a bad showing, imo. no offense and then all you have to do is give up a goal and its curtains for that game. really not a fan of the 3 cbs 2 outside backs formation.
Although right now, I see Sands filling in at center back... I am guessing that Sands will play as a very deep 6 / central center back. Essentially, we’ll have more offensive bite with Adams and more defensive anchor with Sands.
I think this is every CB that could reasonably be considered to be in the current pool... 1. Richards (yes a guy with 0 competitive USMNT games) 2. Brooks 3. McKenzie 4. Zimmerman 5. Robinson 6. Sands (3 CBs) 7. CCV 8. Miazga 9. EPB 10. Kessler 11. Ream 12. Pines 13. Pineda Long around 4-5 if he comes back from injury at the same level Che would probably immediately be at 9 if included Still hoping Otasowie gets moved from DM --> CB
1 brooks 2 richards 3 miazga mckenzie 4 long zimmerman 5 robinson sands thats the best i can do. im not a freelance polish scout- context matters. long is "better" than robinson cause hes played extensively in bigger games and we know what we have in him (like i know there are plenty who absolutely hate him, im not interested- make your own ranking). cause heres my thing- rob looked shaky and deferential to zimmerman the first two matches of this gold cup, much better the last two and im not convinced (yet) its exactly "raising his level as the comp increases". besides, sands looked better than him twice, and right there with him a third time. im not picking on rob here, im saying i/we dont know. he could be our third best cb, he could be our 7th. how many "routine" stops/clearances in the box from zimmerman is robs chase and stop last night worth in a vacuum? cause those little fires zim puts out happen 12, 13 times every match while complete breakdowns leaving us wide open arent even a definite once per match (though we do try our level best to make it seem that way ). "style", "fit" and "match" color this entire discussion way too much, in general. prime example- brooks "has" to have a mobile partner who can do that...well, hes made better open field goal/game saving tackles than that with the nats against better teams. how much do our very selective memories effect things? the sheer amount of talk about having to cover for john freaking brooks around here is insane. you also cant not factor in management- ream shouldnt be in the pool but is, while ccv and epb- however much you believe in them- simply arent. che isnt ready by any reasonable standard. what purpose does ranking them serve? more specifically why rank kessler, pines, etc- whos best case, fully realized potential might put them in the running for 6th or 7th someday? save that for jan camps and the gold cup four years from now. im a huge miazga guy but hes going to be edged out (if hes not already) in favor of investing in mckenzie, rob etc. and im ok with that, i agree thats how it should work. so here is my actual ranking in terms of qualifying and building a 23: brooks, richards and mckenzie are the first three, with long being the fourth as soon as hes back. thats our presumptive world cup cb group. in the meantime i would go zimmerman if fully fit/rob if not. i highly suspect gregg will have ream there though (for the first three windows this year for sure), doubling as co-backup lb with (antonee) robinson. and regardless of that "4th cb" spot i wouldnt be against (and am very tempted right now to) taking sands specifically as...if not the direct backup to, then the alternate/rotation player for adams. i think acosta is more likely though, at least until we get some points in the bag. to be clear though that is a very specific decision- im not at all in favor of a blanket 5 cb roster. and to end with a full on troll- why no mention of alvarado, guys?
1 Brooks 2 Richards 3 McKenzie 4 Long 5 Miazga 6 Zimmerman 7 CCV 8 Robinson 9 Sands 10 Ream 11 EPB 12 Pines
Tier 1: Locks 1. Brooks 2. Richards 3. Zimmerman Brooks and Richards are the best two CBs on pure talent IMO and Richards complements Brooks pretty well. Zimmerman outdoes his talent level because if Brooks can't go in a match I prefer someone else with experience and leadership to fill in and Zimmerman is the only one that should be healthy by WCQs. Tier 2: In strong contention 4. Sands (covering both CB and DM) 5. Robinson 6. McKenzie I don't feel strongly for one above the others, I've got Sands ahead of both due to his utility as a CB and DM, and Robinson ahead of McKenzie because of Miles' 1-on-1 defending, McKenzie's concentration, and aerial ability(6'2" vs 6'0"), could also be recency bias not having watched McKenzie in a while. Miazga and CCV can come into contention with strong club seasons and need to be clearly better than Robinson and McKenzie due to CCV's lack of incisiveness in his passing and Miazga's lack of recovery speed. Also, Robinson and McKenzie can play LCB and RCB, back 4 and back 3, compared to Miazga needing to play as a RCB in a back 4 partnered with someone other than Brooks ideally. For WCQ I'd only call up from the top 6 listed and build cohesion amongst themselves.
My pick four: Brooks Richards Zimmerman Robinson McKenzie vs Robinson was tough but I'll take Robinson's physical presence over McKenzie's better passing. I think Sands looked good on the ball but he's not taking over Brooks as the main distributer back there and I think Zimmerman is better for his backup.
That's a solid group for CONCACAF. The guy I'm most excited about is not even on the list, Che. Looking forward to seeing him progress. I'd like to see Sands tried at the 6.
As well as Sands has played in this tournament, I'm not sure he isn't still outside the 23. It's hard to put him above any of our top 4 or so center backs and as a 6, I'm not at all sure he covers enough ground if we continue to play with a single deep midfielder. It's not going to be easy for him to make the 23. He has a shot, but it's not a very clear path for him.
1. Brooks 2. Richards 3. McKenzie 4. Long 5. Miazga 6. Zimmerman 7. Robinson 8. Sands 9. CCV 10. Kessler We don't need that many. Hopefully 2 of the top 3 will be healthy whenever we play. There is a bit of a dropoff after those 3. Sands will make some rosters due to versatility. I think his future at the international level.is as a 6.
IMO Sands gets overpowered/outmuscled by big forwards in ways the others don’t. But he can backup the 6 and passes well, mostly. He is an interesting case. Interesting that Ream, Miazga and Long are outside so many too 4s now. Mine too. But maybe Recency bias?
I like this exercise, but I’m going to refrain from posting my list until the Gold Cup concludes. Mainly because my roughly 3-6 spots are pretty close, and I want to see how Robinson and Sands fare the rest of the tournament. Both have impressed me, and if one or both of them really perform well in the next two games, they might jump into my top 4. Mckenzie is in my top 4 for now, but he didn't look great in the Nations league. Robinson might overtake him depending on how he finishes the last couple games of the Gold Cup.
Poor Miazga. Dude bleeds for the USMNT. I am actually surprised to see him in a few top 5's. I tend to agree and think that if he was out there in this GC he'd be shining. It's about opportunity more than anything.
At the present... 1. Brooks -------- 2. Richards 3. McKenzie (tie) 3. M. Robinson (tie) 5. Zimmerman 6. Miazga (tie) 6. Sands (tie) 8. CCV 8. Ream 9. Kessler 10. Pines If Aaron Long were to return to his pre-injury form, he'd be #2 or 3, depending on the form of the others.