Racism...Forever?

JohnR · Jun 5, 2020

Smurfquake said: ↑

********ing NFL could have figured this out while Kaep was kneeling.
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Roger was scared by Trump voters. The NBA can afford to blow off the Trumpsters, because it's an urban sport, but regular ol' white boys are the biggest segment of the NFL's audience. When the Donnie spoke up, Goodell cowered.

I don't think the NBA's Silver is better, by the way. Silver crawled away and hid when China got mad. He just has a different audience than the NFL, so it was an easy call for him to blow off the good ol' boys and be woke.

celito · Jun 5, 2020

JohnR said: ↑

Roger was scared by Trump voters. The NBA can afford to blow off the Trumpsters, because it's an urban sport, but regular ol' white boys are the biggest segment of the NFL's audience. When the Donnie spoke up, Goodell cowered.

I don't think the NBA's Silver is better, by the way. Silver crawled away and hid when China got mad. He just has a different audience than the NFL, so it was an easy call for him to blow off the good ol' boys and be woke.
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It all just boils down to $$$.

JohnR · Jun 5, 2020

celito said: ↑

It all just boils down to $$$.
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For the commissioners, it does. Obviously the players make decisions for various reasons, but the commissioners are there to watch the bucks.

Smurfquake · Jun 5, 2020

JohnR said: ↑

Roger was scared by Trump voters. The NBA can afford to blow off the Trumpsters, because it's an urban sport, but regular ol' white boys are the biggest segment of the NFL's audience. When the Donnie spoke up, Goodell cowered.
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I don't disagree, but why is the NFL getting on the bandwagon now? Won't the Trumpsters still get pissed off and won't the NFL potentially lose a big chunk of their fan base? I haven't searched yet but I bet there's a lot of "NFL is virtue signalling" out on social media from Trumpsters right now.

Cascarino's Pizzeria · Jun 5, 2020

soccernutter said: ↑

He was not Whitespainin'. He was doing something else. I don't know what, but it wasn't Whitesplainin'.
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OK so he's a contrarian POS who happens to be white and anti civil rights. As was Poppa. All I got then.

In February 2019, the stage was finally set. The federal anti-lynching legislation was introduced by the Senate's three African-American members -- Sens. Kamala Harris (D-Calif.), Cory Booker (D-N.J.) and Tim Scott (R-S.C.) -- and it passed unanimously. The bill then went to the House, which passed it by a margin of 410 to 4.

The House did, however, make one symbolic tweak to the legislation: the Democratic-led chamber renamed the bill the Emmett Till Anti-Lynching Act, as a way to honor the memory of the 14-year-old young man who was lynched in Mississippi in 1955.
That minor change meant the Senate would have to pass the bill one last time. That was supposed to happen yesterday. It didn't.

Raw feelings were evident as Sen. Rand Paul -- who is single-handedly holding up the bill despite letting it pass last year -- sought changes to the legislation as a condition of allowing it to pass.

https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow...t-rand-paul-holds-anti-lynching-bill-n1225781

charlie15 · Jun 5, 2020

celito said: ↑

First of all, define status quo being threatened as it pertains to the actual voter. BTW, the party in power before Lula was elected was center-left. So the status quo was basically the left. So you didn't have the more clear left and right as in the US. PT managed to stay in power for 12+ years ... even after a Congress voting bribing scandal. Which brings me to the next point ...

And I should have mentioned this before, but probably the main reason people elect an opposing (different) party (specially in Brazil), is because of the economy. I mentioned crime and corruption as 2 main reasons in voters minde but economy comes first. PT managed to get re-elected even after the vote buying scandal because the economy was pretty good. PT came into power after a downturn in the economy.

I'd say religion (as it pertains to morals), abortion, guns, expenditures (to a lesser degree) as a topic of discussion in elections in Brazil started in the last decade. Yes there has been a shift to somewhat copy issues in the US. A more "true" right wing has definitely emerged in the past decade in Brazil. Racism as a direct topic perhaps now is started being talked more directly. Before that, it was more all about economy, crime, education, health, and poverty.

I've stated before that classism is definitely a thing in Brazil (as is in many if not all other countries) and an issue in voting. Yes many people don't like the social welfare programs initiated by PT (attributing it as buying votes), but again, people are thinking about their pockets, not racism. Brazil's tax burden is pretty high and it doesn't promote a return to society as other countries do with similar tax burdens. And our economic instability is much bigger than in the US.

Now, the poorest population are , as you probably know black/indigenous/mixed (actually it's way more mixed than in the US as the Portuguese mixed with slaves and indigenous way more than in the US) ... so the connection to racism is easily made. But racism in Brazil, IMO opinion, is way more due to socio economic reasons than in the US. Perhaps because it's more openly spoken, you do feel in the US that the racist whites still cling to superior race theory. And perhaps it's because in Brazil we do have a bit more of a unified culture than in the US. We also didn't have segregation and neither a war was needed for slaves to be freed and maybe that also created less tension between white and mixed/black. On the downside, the black population has way less opportunities than in the US and I can blame that on social issues like education and the fact that we are just a poorer country with less innovation and mismanaged resources.

This is true to a certain degree as it relates to law and order. But Military in Brazil doesn't have the same image as it does here since we really don't go to war. Military culture in the US is HUGE. In Brazil is a bit non-existent. Only factor of Bolsonaro's military background is that it passed the image of him not being corrupt. So again, we are talking about perception and why the voter voted for him, and not what will end up happening.

I know of no voting shenanigans in Brazil. And actually, AFAIK it has been praised compared to the US.

To add one more point to it, the same way we find Trump tweets disparaging Obama 4 years ago, that funnily apply to him like a glove, in Colombia we have tweets from the president and vice president showing their fury about their predecessor's policies that apply perfectly to them; there's a PR consultant working for the president that is now known as "The Oracle", because you can find tweets about him criticizing the previous administration for something the current government is doing, almost on a daily basis.

So, in short, I think that Charlie15 is correct; Bolsonaro at the end was not elected to fight corruption; he was elected because poor and black Brazilians were getting more from Lula and that was costing some rich Brazilians. Bolsonaro voters don't care about him being a prickish corrupt authoritarian, because he is their prickish corrupt authoritarian.

PS: The most puzzling thing about the right wingers are how evidently stupid and inept they are, to those who care to pay attention; they are ignorant, buffoonish, foolish and vain; in contrast the left wing candidate, despite their flaws, offer substance and have a solid and well built platform, but that doesn't really matter to a big portion of the electorate.
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When a big part of the population doesn't make a lot of money, saying the election was shifted because of some "rich Brazilians" swinging the votes is just plain ignorant. As I mentioned Bolsonaro actually increased social welfare last year. But .. he didn't campaign saying he would, so his voters that considered that an issue were probably disappointed. You mentioned he is just trying to keep him happy ... but I can turn and say Lula was doing the same just buying votes ... since he oversaw $2B of public money go to corruption instead of you know, helping the part of the population he came from himself.

I know this post is a bit of a ramble ... I am not so good at being concise.[/QUOTE]

The amount of revisionism in this post is beyond belief, starting with the remarkable description of the Brazilian army, a corrupt and criminal institution responsible for hundred of deaths during the coup and the 21 yrs of military dictatorship (Something Bolsonaro is so proud of btw)....,,
I won't even expand of the description of racism in Brazil, totally reminiscent of the lost cause.
After your long and rambling rant, it is hard for me to believe you did not vote for Bolsonaro and that you are not voting for Trump. I rest my case...

onefineesq · Jun 5, 2020

Cascarino's Pizzeria said: ↑

No apology to Kaep in that mess.
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That is never forthcoming. And you know why not.

charlie15 · Jun 5, 2020

Smurfquake said: ↑

I don't disagree, but why is the NFL getting on the bandwagon now? Won't the Trumpsters still get pissed off and won't the NFL potentially lose a big chunk of their fan base? I haven't searched yet but I bet there's a lot of "NFL is virtue signalling" out on social media from Trumpsters right now.
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This! I don't care about the NFL and basically stopped watching when the blackballed Kap. Having said that, it is a pretty big deal. 10 of the NFL owners gave millions to Trump. The league is supported by a lot of white men that are also trumpsters.
Howevee, Goodell and the owners are smart capitalists , they realize the tide is turning and they need to jump on the bandwagon before it is too late. Make no mistake, it is a watershed moment and a big blow for Trump as well.

celito · Jun 5, 2020

charlie15 said: ↑

When a big part of the population doesn't make a lot of money, saying the election was shifted because of some "rich Brazilians" swinging the votes is just plain ignorant. As I mentioned Bolsonaro actually increased social welfare last year. But .. he didn't campaign saying he would, so his voters that considered that an issue were probably disappointed. You mentioned he is just trying to keep him happy ... but I can turn and say Lula was doing the same just buying votes ... since he oversaw $2B of public money go to corruption instead of you know, helping the part of the population he came from himself.

I know this post is a bit of a ramble ... I am not so good at being concise.

The amount of revisionism in this post is beyond belief, starting with the remarkable description of the Brazilan army, a corrupt and criminal institution who killed thousand of people during the coup (Something Bolsonaro is so proud of btw)....,,After your long and rambling rant, it is hard for me to believe you did not vote for Bolsonaro and that you are not voting for Trump. I rest my case...
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So basically you have nothing to say. Got it.

Didn't vote at all in Brazil. Would never vote for Bolsonaro ... but neither would ever and didn't vote for Lula who is a thief. Didn't and most definitely won't vote for Trump. Believe what you want, I see you're pretty good at that.

soccernutter · Jun 5, 2020

Q*bert Jones III said: ↑

I am rocking that same facial hair right now. But my boots are brown.
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How did you look at that picture long enough to determine what kind of facial hair he has?

Chicago76 said: ↑

If I were in charge of the PD, I’d give them all 25 hours/week of the most mundane desk job I could find. For the other 15 hours/week, they’d go to a Witnessing Whiteness workshop. Those guys would quit in two weeks and I’d save the city a small fortune in future pension accruals.
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And then there is Lester Freamon.

charlie15 · Jun 5, 2020

celito said: ↑

So basically you have nothing to say. Got it.

Didn't vote at all in Brazil. Would never vote for Bolsonaro ... but neither would ever and didn't vote for Lula who is a thief. Didn't and most definitely won't vote for Trump. Believe what you want, I see you're pretty good at that.
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I said what I have to say long time ago. Your president is a racist, a crook and a homophobic SOB but you still feel the need to defend him and to attack Lula who lifted million of Brazilians out of poverty. I guess since they are mostly black, they may not count for you though.

JohnR · Jun 5, 2020

Smurfquake said: ↑

I don't disagree, but why is the NFL getting on the bandwagon now? .
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The corporations are aboard. Kaep was outside the mainstream, but BLM in 2020 is not. Supporting BLM has become part of corporations' diversity pledges.

JohnR · Jun 5, 2020

charlie15 said: ↑

Make no mistake, it is a watershed moment and a big blow for Trump as well.
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it is. Goodell quietly signaled to Donnie that Trumpism is not the way that the informed money will bet.

charlie15 · Jun 5, 2020

Man, this black Mayor of Buffalo is an embarrassment. He is trying his best to minimize the events from this AM. Rachel is holding his feet to the fire though.

ceezmad · Jun 5, 2020

celito said: ↑

I've stated before that classism is definitely a thing in Brazil (as is in many if not all other countries) and an issue in voting. Yes many people don't like the social welfare programs initiated by PT (attributing it as buying votes), but again, people are thinking about their pockets, not racism. Brazil's tax burden is pretty high and it doesn't promote a return to society as other countries do with similar tax burdens. And our economic instability is much bigger than in the US.

Now, the poorest population are , as you probably know black/indigenous/mixed (actually it's way more mixed than in the US as the Portuguese mixed with slaves and indigenous way more than in the US) ... so the connection to racism is easily made. But racism in Brazil, IMO opinion, is way more due to socio economic reasons than in the US. Perhaps because it's more openly spoken, you do feel in the US that the racist whites still cling to superior race theory. And perhaps it's because in Brazil we do have a bit more of a unified culture than in the US. We also didn't have segregation and neither a war was needed for slaves to be freed and maybe that also created less tension between white and mixed/black. On the downside, the black population has way less opportunities than in the US and I can blame that on social issues like education and the fact that we are just a poorer country with less innovation and mismanaged resources.
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That is not true, perhaps the laws were different as in no Jim crow laws, but you guys did have slavery for a longer time, maybe the last country in the Americas to get rid of it.

But segregation is pretty big in Brazil.

The findings do not come as much of a surprise. The maps add to an ongoing conversation in Brazil about race, inequality and criminal justice issues. According to Global Post, young black men are frequently killed in numbers disproportionate to other racial groups by police officers in Rio de Janeiro. But racial issues are seldom discussed, much less addressed, among policymakers and politicians in Brazil.

“I wanted these maps to be available because here in Brazil there’s a lot of talk about how there isn’t any racism,” Barbosa said to Global Post. “That’s wrong, and I think these maps are a good visualization of that.”

To create the maps, Barbosa pulled data from the federal statistics agency’s 2010 census, which revealed that whites in Brazil had for the first time become the minority. It showed that 48 percent of Brazilians nationwide identified as white (in Portuguese, ‘branco’), while just more than 50 percent of the country’s population identified as either black (also known as ‘preto’), or mixed race (‘pardo’).
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http://www.humanosphere.org/human-r...rate-stark-racial-segregation-brazils-cities/

For the century between the abolition of slavery and the new Federal Constitution of 1988, little or nothing was done to integrate the former slaves into the national economy and public life. While the situation has been improving in recent decades, the effects of this de facto segregation are still very present in contemporary Brazil. ‘One hundred years after the abolition of slavery, the former slaves haven’t yet received the appropriate attention from the central government,’ says Fernando Haddad, São Paulo’s new mayor-elect. Of course, conditions for non-white Brazilians are not the same today as they were one hundred years ago; however, the improvements that have been achieved are the result of wider growth in prosperity and quality of life across all of society. Racial inequality remains a constant, with non-white Brazilians still being left behind.
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https://lab.org.uk/brazils-blind-spot-racism-and-racial-inequality/

One big difference that I read and hear about Brazil is that poor whites are more willing to live and be friends with poor black Brazilians.

So the fantasy that Brazil is a melting pot is somewhat more real at the bottom of the economic latter, rather than up the latter (obviously rich famous people can be more mix).

xtomx · Jun 5, 2020

charlie15 said: ↑

Man, this black Mayor of Buffalo is an embarrassment. He is trying his best to minimize the events from this AM. Rachel is holding his feet to the fire though.
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Watching it right now.

Maddow is not letting him off easy, without being rude...as is her style.

He is not doing himself any favors.

In particular, questioning why none of the officers rendered aid or even worked to protect the injured man.

The Mayor keeps saying it is not the job of the police to render aid, that there are medics "behind the front line."

He is digging himself deeper and deeper the moment.

charlie15 · Jun 5, 2020

xtomx said: ↑

Watching it right now.

Maddow is not letting him off easy, without being rude...as is her style.

He is not doing himself any favors.

In particular, questioning why none of the officers rendered aid or even worked to protect the injured man.

The Mayor keeps saying it is not the job of the police to render aid, that there are medics "behind the front line."

He is digging himself deeper and deeper the moment.
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The funny part is, after twisting himself into a pretzel to minimize the facts, at the end of the interview he denounced the Buffalo Police union as a being on the wrong side of history and an obstacle to reform.

celito · Jun 5, 2020

charlie15 said: ↑

I said what I have to say long time ago. Your president is a racist, a crook and a homophobic SOB but you still feel the need to defend him and to attack Lula who lifted million of Brazilians out of poverty. I guess since they are mostly black, they may not count for you though.
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Then why are you still talking ?

I am not defending him, I am explaining the voter's mindsets in Brazil. You have some blinders on man. You're making assumptions and reading into things I am not writing. The only thing I said "positive" about him is that his military background portrayed an image of not being corrupt. But I bet even if there is corruption, it won't be some $2B Lula atrocity. PT has party members with ghost jobs bro. I know because I have two such relatives who received money from BS jobs.

And I never said he didn't make racist / homophobic remarks. And you're last statement is just shameful. And I am stopping here as to not hijack the thread. Feel free to PM me. I don't mind exchange of ideas.

charlie15 · Jun 5, 2020

celito said: ↑

Then why are you still talking ?

I am not defending him, I am explaining the voter's mindsets in Brazil. You have some blinders on man. You're making assumptions and reading into things I am not writing. The only thing I said "positive" about him is that his military background portrayed an image of not being corrupt. But I bet even if there is corruption, it won't be some $2B Lula atrocity. PT has party members with ghost jobs bro. I know because I have two such relatives who received money from BS jobs.

And I never said he didn't make racist / homophobic remarks. And you're last statement is just shameful. And I am stopping here as to not hijack the thread. Feel free to PM me. I don't mind exchange of ideas.
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Nah.....I am good. Bye Felicia!

celito · Jun 5, 2020

ceezmad said: ↑

That is not true, perhaps the laws were different as in no Jim crow laws, but you guys did have slavery for a longer time, maybe the last country in the Americas to get rid of it.

But segregation is pretty big in Brazil.

http://www.humanosphere.org/human-r...rate-stark-racial-segregation-brazils-cities/

https://lab.org.uk/brazils-blind-spot-racism-and-racial-inequality/
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Yes our slavery did last until a later date, I never claimed otherwise. The end of it just didn't come on the back of a big civil war that divided the country. There were revolts ... and it was a gradual process. When I say we didn't have segregation, I mean that we didn't have official Government sponsored segregation. The Government basically left the freed slaves to figure things out on their own. Gave them no help AFAIK.

ceezmad said: ↑

One big difference that I read and hear about Brazil is that poor whites are more willing to live and be friends with poor black Brazilians.

So the fantasy that Brazil is a melting pot is somewhat more real at the bottom of the economic latter, rather than up the latter (obviously rich famous people can be more mix).
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It's why I say it's more socio-economic than the other aggressive racial undertones that exists in the US. Mind you, I am not saying it doesn't exist in Brazil. It just feels like a bit less than in the US.

sitruc · Jun 5, 2020

onefineesq said: ↑

So Roger Goodell has come out with a video statement, essentially saying that the NFL was wrong not to listen to its Black players about racism.

Let me be the first here to say, ******** GOODELL!!! He is a piece of crap that can go fly a kite at the top of the Washington monument in a thunderstorm.
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Last night for those who missed it...

INSANE Video from our @wusa9 SkyCam WOOOOOW #lightning #WashingtonMonument pic.twitter.com/iYmwDwDUMO
— Ryan Sprouse (@RSprouseNews) June 5, 2020

Cascarino's Pizzeria said: ↑

I dont get the full Tour de France outfits on these weekend warriors. Squeezing their fat asses into them is just ridiculous. Like me going to throw a football around & wearing a helmet and pads. Not as extreme as Chris Christie playing softball but you still wouldnt want to see it.
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I am always faster than any member of the lycra brigade and I don't wear that mess.

charlie15 said: ↑

You guys are here spouting BS theories all day but you had no clue how to end racism. Thanks God Trump found the answer!!! By the way, it is a great day for George today!!!!

Trump Says Strong Economy Will End Racism
President Trump said his plan to address racism is a strong economy, after he was pressed on whether he has a plan to end systemic racism in the country, the Washington Post reports.
Said Trump: “It’s the greatest thing that can happen for race relations, for the African American community, for the Asian American, for the Hispanic American community, for women, for everything.”
He added: “We all saw what happened last week. We can’t let that happen. Hopefully George is looking down right now and saying this a great thing that’s happening for our country. There’s a great day for him. It’s a great day for everybody. It’s a great day for everybody. There’s a great, great day in terms of equality.”
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The sad part is he probably believes this. In the ongoing protest events thread I mentioned that BLM wasn't embraced by progressives more than any other part of the Dems and noted how Sanders and Yang weren't too far from this thought as well. A lot of people genuinely believe as long as everyone gets something, that solves things. Of course Trump takes this to a dumber place than anyone else, but it's not an uncommon belief.

onefineesq · Jun 5, 2020

sitruc said: ↑

Last night for those who missed it...

INSANE Video from our @wusa9 SkyCam WOOOOOW #lightning #WashingtonMonument pic.twitter.com/iYmwDwDUMO
— Ryan Sprouse (@RSprouseNews) June 5, 2020

I am always faster than any member of the lycra brigade and I don't wear that mess.

The sad part is he probably believes this. In the ongoing protest events thread I mentioned that BLM wasn't embraced by progressives more than any other part of the Dems and noted how Sanders and Yang weren't too far from this thought as well. A lot of people genuinely believe as long as everyone gets something, that solves things. Of course Trump takes this to a dumber place than anyone else, but it's not an uncommon belief.
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That video of the Washington Monument was precisely why I chose those words. Amazingly impressive, that lightning.

Also, I have to admit to everyone … I do, in fact, wear my bicycling gear (pants and zip-up shirt and all) when I go riding. I assure everyone here though that I look WAY better than the child assaulter in Bethesda IN said gear.

sitruc · Jun 5, 2020

Skai Jackson is exposing a bunch of racists on her twitter timeline right now.
https://twitter.com/skaijackson

I genuinely believe tik tok is the most racist place on the Internet. That place is full of kids. I think about that a lot when people keep saying that's the generation that's going to be the change.

Auriaprottu · Jun 6, 2020

charlie15 said: ↑

This! I don't care about the NFL and basically stopped watching when the blackballed Kap. Having said that, it is a pretty big deal. 10 of the NFL owners gave millions to Trump. The league is supported by a lot of white men that are also trumpsters.
Howevee, Goodell and the owners are smart capitalists , they realize the tide is turning and they need to jump on the bandwagon before it is too late. Make no mistake, it is a watershed moment and a big blow for Trump as well.
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For me, it was a combo of Kaep's mistreatment and the arrival of United a few months after Trump's coronation. I thought I'd miss it, but I haven't. I watch the odd cfb game, but even that has gone by the wayside the last couple of years.

I kinda hate it for cfb fans here on this site that Alabama pretty much ended the cfb threads in Sports. There was one guy (an LSU fan) other than me keeping it alive, and he finally went away after 2016 or so. He didn't even go back to celebrate LSU's win over Bama and the natty that resulted.

Boandlkramer · Jun 6, 2020

Hopefully this changes things

WASHINGTON (AP) — Protesters stirred by the death of George Floyd vowed Friday to turn an extraordinary outpouring of grief into a sustained movement as demonstrations shifted to a calmer, but no less determined focus on addressing racial injustice.

https://apnews.com/05476b9620f2b5f9900e16ccc8dc3a75