ZeekLTK, Correct, 2 games in the OFC & 2 games against CONMEBOL !!! The first H&A series later this year (2004) is to determine the OFC Nations Cup Champion and representative at the 2005 Confederations Cup tournament in Germany. The second H&A series (in Sept/Oct next year, 2005) is to determine which of the same two teams play a H&A series (in December 2005) against the 5th placed CONMEBOL team for the 32nd (final) place in the WC Finals of 2006 in Germany. Both teams are still there, but I bet you Frank Farina will have all hands on deck for those 2, no 4, games. Andy T.
markdickson, Actually AUS is 89 on FIFA's rankings with Scotland 63. If AUS is mediocre then what is Scotland ? They've actually refused invitations to play AUS since the last game years ago when AUS won 2-0 in Scotland. Suggest you read up on how the FIFA rankings are actually calculated and how teams from Oceania are actually treated with the relative confederational ratings. There's some info on this thread & another thread on the Oceania board also. Andy T.
That'll teach the OFC not to double-cross Sepp Blatter! For the record, I think the Aussies could be a top-30 team and are certainly better than some Asian sides that made the last World Cup.
Fallout from the loss.... Mick Waitt - All Whites Coach "The Solomons played very well. Australia put a good side out but didn't really perform on the night. It wasn't pleasant to watch. It's a huge setback." "We can't blame the Australians, we let ourselves down with the result against Vanuatu. It's come back to bite us on the bum – it's as simple as that." "At the end of the day I'm the man that's responsible. I'm not going to hide from that fact. It wasn't bad luck, it was bad management." "They're (the All Whites) all devastated, it's a result none of us can comprehend. Now we all have to stand up and be counted." Waitt is braced for an uncomfortable reception when he arrives in Wellington tonight, but would not pre-empt any action from New Zealand Soccer by resigning. He said said he was keen to carry on as head coach but conceded: "I'd think my future would be very difficult". Waitt was originally scheduled to review the All Whites performance before the Soccer New Zealand board tomorrow week but expected the meeting to be brought forward. Bill MacGowan - NZ Soccer CEO "It (the loss to Vanuatu) caused a huge amount of negativity over here, and rightly so." "Even if the Oceania countries are getting better, we need to maintain that gap between them and ourselves. In this sport in this country we are absolutely dependent on our international results. Everything else means diddly-squat." CEO Bill MacGowan says television contracts and prospective sponsorships are now in jeopardy. He says they were planning for the Confederations Cup home and away series against Australia in October and they now have to refocus on under 23 and youth level soccer. Crowdie
Crowdie, I saw interviews with both gentlemen on TV today. Mick Waitt was professional and came over as a realistic & reasonable person. Bill MacGowan started the blame game with a nod-nod wink-wink and statements that could not be mistaken as anything other than AUS threw the game in order to stick it to the Kiwis. What an idiot he must be. Had Bill supported more investment in the Kiwis then maybe they wouldn't have lost that game, hence not needing AUS to win on their behalf to save them from this very outcome. Cheers. Andy T.
The parallels with the last Nations Cup are clear. A team arrives under-prepared due to management (ie not the coach) not wanting to spend money, and loses out - and that same management suddenly realise they are not going to get that golden goose they had counted on (and start whingeing about how unfair it is). Somehow, Australia ended up changing its management - rather than shooting the coach (who, despite his weaknesses, was not the major person to blame). From what I've heard so far, NZ might not be so lucky. You could end up with the same morons running the game and some poor new bastard getting stuffed because of it. Comiserations to Mick Waitt - his post-match interview was class considering how bad he must have felt. J PS - I hope NZ soccer didn't destroy their women's teams (not attempting to qualify for the Olympics or U-19 World Champs) so they could focus on this farce.
Damn. Just read this whole thread. What a shocker. I'm not sure if I was more surprised by NZ losing to Vanuatu (for V's only points of the ONC) or by Aus tying with the Solomons. One interesting implication of this event is that it appears that there is more parity in the OFC. I'm not sure if this is because Aus and NZ no longer have to play in the prequalifying round, but there were no 31-0 absurdities like the one Aus dropped on American Samoa a while back. This should also give pause to any fans of favored teams in Concacaf. The new home-and-away round against small Carribbean nations bears a disturbing similarity to the ONC--if anything, there's more risk b/c less games. After seeing what happened in Oceania, I bet that one of the favored teams will be upset by a small island nation. Maybe something as minimal as St Lucia beating Panama, but I think it'll happen. And I sure hope it isn't the US.
In Mick Waitt's defence the Kiwis only came together three days before the tournament and had no warm up games so I am not sure what Bill MacGowan expected. As CEO Bill MacGowan must ensure that the coaching staff have the opportunity to prepare the team and MacGowan failed to do that. Crowdie
All Whites coach wants another shot Embattled All Whites coach Mick Waitt wants a shot at guiding New Zealand out of soccer's international wilderness but doubts he will get the chance. The Englishman has already resigned himself to being made the scapegoat for New Zealand's humiliating World Cup elimination at the Oceania Nations Cup in Adelaide early yesterday. "Do I want to carry on? Yeah I do because I'm not a quitter," Waitt said. "I believe we have the players in place to go forward but it is probably out of my hands. This is the all-time low point for New Zealand soccer and I'm the man that's responsible. I'm not going to hide from that." Waitt watched in horror as former Football Kingz striker Commins Menapi earned the Solomon Islands a shock 2-2 draw against Australia at Hindmarsh Stadium early yesterday. The result meant the All Whites' earlier 2-0 win over Fiji was irrelevant and saw the Solomons, ranked 154th in the world, pip Waitt's men for a place in the Confederations Cup and World Cup playoffs against Australia this October and September next year, respectively. It was a devastating footnote to the gloomiest chapter in New Zealand Soccer history, opened after the All Whites' unthinkable 4-2 loss to Pacific Island part-timers Vanuatu, rated 69 places behind Waitt's men at No 163 in the latest Fifa world rankings. Waitt expected a frosty reception when he returned to Wellington late yesterday but hoped the development of young players such as Steven Old, Tony Lochhead and Brent Fisher in Adelaide would at least earn him a fair hearing when his future is reviewed by New Zealand Soccer. His contract ended with New Zealand's embarrassing fall at the first qualifying hurdle to the 2006 World Cup in Germany. "I still believe we've got the makings of a good side. It's just one bad day at the office, but there's no hiding that fact. We've made a mess of things and I'm certainly putting my hand up," he said. Waitt said he would be honest at his yet-to-be-confirmed debriefing in the hope of helping the All Whites move forward, regardless of whether he was part of the future or not. "It wasn't bad luck, it was bad management. To be honest a few things aren't right within the management system but it doesn't take away the fact we played very badly against Vanuatu, who finished bottom of the (six-team) group." Meanwhile, NZ Soccer boss Bill MacGowan is to recommend money earmarked for the All Whites be re-channelled into New Zealand's under-20 and under-23 teams with an eye to re-emerging at senior international level at the Oceania qualifying tournament for the 2010 World Cup. He will also explore a different role for the next All Whites coach with the possibility any successor to Waitt will be based in Europe on a part-time contract. At the very least NZ Soccer is set to employ scouts in Europe and the United States to keep tabs on the growing number of Kiwis now playing offshore. MacGowan agreed the All Whites' elimination was a "disaster". "The ramifications in terms of the image of the game, commercial opportunities and seeking international football are quite significant . . . teams are going to say, geez, do we really want to play them now?" Crowdie
Soccer draw raises suspicion -- The West Australian (via AAP) Clip: It is being compared with cricket's under-arm bowling incident but New Zealand Soccer does not blame Australia for the All Whites costly early exit from the 2006 World Cup qualifying campaign. Coach Mick Waitt faces the axe and several senior players may have pulled on an All Whites jersey for the last time after New Zealand finished third at the Oceania Nations Cup. Australia's shock 2-2 draw with soccer minnow the Solomon Islands killed off New Zealand's chances of making the 2006 World Cup as the Socceroos and Solomon Islands advanced to the next play-off stage. Some Kiwi radio talkback callers claimed Australia, which fielded an inexperienced line-up against Solomon Islands, threw the game to avoid a more difficult play-off assignment against New Zealand.
Chili - this time around, American Samoa had to play in a preliminary group in order to make Oceania Stage 2, and didn't make it. Thus, the minnows who got shots at Australia and New Zealand were the better minnows of Oceania, lessening the possibility of blowouts. Obviously, the upset second-place finish of the Solomon Islands and the Vanuatu upset are greater parity than was demonstrated last time around, although Fiji looked pretty dangerous back then, too.
And as abhorrent as it is, a little part of me hopes that it's true and we really didn't draw with the Solomons out of ability. Kidding, I kid. Honest.
You would figure with that many NSL-experienced players on the Island teams, they could easily field their own entry into the comeptition. How bad is it for the All Whites when the equalizer for the SI came from a former Kingz player.
This is a pretty solomonic solution (no pun intended)--some of the minnows get a shot, but only the better ones. Not too far off from this year's concacaf setup; the biggies have to play the minnows, but only after the worst minnows have been weeded out. I still think it's a good indication that the favorites should be on their toes. And what's the "Underarm bowling incident?" Presumably that's a cricket not a soccer thing.
Yes it was an incident in a cricket match between New Zealand and Australia back in 1981. New Zealand needed a "six" to win the game off the final ball - to get a "six" in cricket you must hit the ball over the boundary line without it bouncing inside the boundary line. In cricket bowlers bowl the ball with their arm coming over their head. What the Australians did was bowl the ball underarm making it impossible to get underneath it and hit it to the boundary line. It was bending the rules to the extreme. Needless to say it angered Kiwis to the extreme. Not they we had lost but that Australia had "cheated" to get the win. New Zealand has always had a very strong sense of fair play (blame our British heritage for this) and on that day the Australians started to show that they were losing theirs. Interestingly the underarm bowling incident to probably not the worst thing Australia has done to cricket. The Australian cricket team started the trend in cricket (which is now completely out of control) of "sledging". Sledging is where you continuously abuse opponents very quietly (so the umpires don't hear) so they lose concentration and get out. One of the worst example of this happened to a Kiwi batsman called Chris Cairns. He was in a series in Australia when his sister was killed in a train accident in Wellington, New Zealand. Chris left the series in Australia and returned to Wellington to be with his family. When he returned later in the series the Australians continuously made jokes about train accidents whenever Chris was around. Not their greatest moment. The Australians are generally very good sports but their elite athletes can sometimes let the side down. Crowdie PS on the Aussies throwing the game against the Solomons - bollocks. If the All Whites can't qualify without having to worry about other results then they don't deserve to be there.
Blame for All Whites failure should be shared - Sumner New Zealand's most capped soccer player, Steve Sumner, is alarmed at talk that the All Whites might be mothballed for two years and says it is wrong to "cut short" players' careers. Sumner, who captained the All Whites at the 1982 World Cup finals, also believes that the blame for the national team's World Cup qualifying tournament failure in Adelaide should be fairly shared. He said coach Mick Waitt, assistant coach Ricki Herbert, director of football Paul Smalley and New Zealand Soccer (NZS) chief executive Bill MacGowan should all be accountable. Sumner stressed he was not "calling for heads" but said lessons had to be learned from the side's performances at the Oceania Nations Cup in Adelaide, where a stunning 2-4 loss to Vanuatu last week saw them finish third. The leading two nations, Australia and the Solomon Islands, advanced to the home-and-away final qualifiers for next year's Confederations Cup. "To go into a tournament with no build up, for me, was arrogant," Sumner said. "Is our standing in the game that poor that no one will want to play us? "They had to go out and work harder to get games." Sumner, who won 105 caps for the All Whites and also served on NZS board, said he was alarmed to hear MacGowan say the All Whites might not play for two years and that the future focus would be on the national under-20 and under-23 teams. "For me, that's a cop out. They should be out there firming up decent games for the All Whites, every year, at home as well as away." Sumner said it was wrong to "cut short" current All Whites' careers. "What's left for guys who are 27 or 28, and who should be entering the prime of their football careers?" He said the problem with focusing on age group teams was the majority of players at that level would never progress to full international standard. "They should be thinking more about international football. Every game is worth winning. You don't blood youngsters at (senior international) level. Guys need to work for an All Whites shirt." He was also disappointed at MacGowan's comment that some senior All Whites would probably not play for New Zealand again. "Bill should stop talking about players as if he is the coach of the team." He said NZS should be really be asking themselves whether the All Whites had "the right environment to work in and play in" at Adelaide. "If they didn't then that is a management problem. "For instance, did Mick (Waitt) get to pick his own backroom staff, or was he encouraged to take Ricki (Herbert) and Paul Smalley? "I bet you (All Blacks coach) Graham Henry wasn't put in that position." Sumner questioned the wisdom of selecting players from the United States college system, and said only people playing professionally - "at the level of the (Football) Kingz or above" - should be considered for the All Whites. MacGowan has criticised claims that All Whites were ill-prepared for the tournament. The All Whites had no games going into the tournament. The one chance of a lead-up match against Turkey was not financially viable. "There was no talk about lack of preparation when we performed really well against Australia (0-1 loss) in the opening match," he said. "Effectively, we had two warm-up games for Vanuatu, against Australia and the Solomon Islands, and the team had been in camp eight days." Crowdie
Don't blame Waitt, says Coveny Record-equalling All Whites striker Vaughan Coveny has called for Mick Waitt to be retained as New Zealand soccer coach. The 32-year-old South Melbourne marksman believes Waitt should be spared the inevitable bloodletting that will come in the wake of the All Whites' unthinkable World Cup elimination at the Oceania Nations Cup in Adelaide. "What happened is not Mick's fault," said Coveny, whose six strikes in Adelaide saw him join the late Jock Newall as the leading All Whites all-time scorer with 28 goals. "I've got a lot of respect for Mick, he's a top coach and he got on well with all the boys. It's not his fault we didn't have the preparation. I know things haven't happened this time but in the last few years he's done a remarkable job with limited resources." Waitt is on the positive side of the ledger since succeeding Ken Dugdale in 2002, with 11 wins and two draws from his 23 games in charge. But the 1-0 Nations Cup final victory over a severely weakened Socceroos side in Auckland in 2002 is Waitt's only win of note over a non-Pacific island nation. Coveny agreed the All Whites were so concerned at the widening gap between themselves and Australia that they had not seen Pacific island threats such as the Solomon Islands and Vanuatu creeping up on them. The Solomons pipped New Zealand to the Confederations Cup and World Cup playoffs against Australia after Vanuatu had earlier humbled the All Whites 4-2 in Adelaide. "This is a wakeup call for everybody involved," he said. Coveny's only criticism of Waitt was the lack of experienced heads the coach had to call on when the going got tough against Vanuatu. The 71-cap veteran came on shortly after halftime against Vanuatu and scored twice but could not save New Zealand from the worst defeat in their 82-year international history. "When you look at the new faces we had and the lack of preparation, we just didn't have enough time to click. When the pressure goes on you need a few calm heads," he said. "To be honest I don't think you can blame the players, five games in nine days is just exhausting. After the rude awakening I thought we responded well against Tahiti (10-0) and Fiji (2-0)." Coveny said New Zealand Soccer must now rebuild via the national under-20s and under-23s. But he said it was important the senior All Whites were not totally disregarded and insisted he had no intention of bowing out of international soccer as a loser. Equalling Newall's record was something he would cherish for the remainder of his career though he hoped to get the opportunity to surpass the mark soon. "I doubt if the All Whites will have too many games in the next few years but they've got to keep them ticking over because the only way to get better is to play more games." Crowdie
Re: Don't blame Waitt, says Coveny Crowdie, Amen to that, as it's true for ALL teams in the Oceania Confederation. Cheers. Andy T.
Re: Don't blame Waitt, says Coveny I sincerely feel bad for Australia and New Zealand. Two programs that have shown they could probably excel given the chance, but due to geographic isolation and conference mates that make CONCACAF look like UEFA, you've got an uphill battle ahead of you. Obviously they have nothing to gain and everything to lose, but they really should let you two join Asia. It would strenghthen your programs and make Asia a stronger confederation by adding two really solid teams. That 5 games in 10 days crap with no home field advantage is for the birds.
Soccer NZ says cup buildup OK New Zealand Soccer boss Bill MacGowan has slammed claims that the All Whites were ill-prepared for their horror loss to Vanuatu at the Oceania Nations Cup tournament. That 4-2 defeat in Adelaide, the All Whites' worst international result in decades, led to their missing out on a top-two finish in the six-nation competition, ending their Confederations Cup and World Cup-qualifying hopes. MacGowan suggested those complaining at the non-existent pre-tournament buildup were grumbling with the benefit of hindsight. The All Whites had no games going into the tournament. The one chance of a lead-up match against Turkey was not financially viable. "There was no talk about lack of preparation when we performed really well against Australia in the opening match," MacGowan said. "Effectively, we had two warm-up games for Vanuatu, against Australia and the Solomon Islands, and the team had been in camp eight days. "I know how much Turkey would have cost and it would have put New Zealand Soccer on the brink of bankruptcy had we taken it on." When the Solomon Islands stunned Australia by drawing the final game of the competition 2-2, it squeezed the All Whites out and put the exuberant Solomons into the home-and-away final qualifier for next year's Confederations Cup. But the suggestion that the Australians tanked the game against the Solomons in a bid to kneecap New Zealand's Confederations and World Cup hopes cuts no ice with MacGowan. "That holds no water at all. "My understanding from sources within Australian soccer is that they would rather have had New Zealand than the Solomons for commercial purposes." The contract of All Whites coach Mick Waitt is up with NZS. It ended when they were eliminated from World Cup running. It seems sure his contract will not be renewed, but nothing will be finalised until at least June 23. The board of NZS meets that day to consider proposals from its management committee regarding New Zealand's long- and short-term international situation. But for the shop-window national team, the shutters are expected to go down for at least the next 15 months. Crowdie
Opinion: Oceania football has finally come of age Charlie Dempsey was not in Adelaide to witness the coming of age of the Oceania Football Confederation he nurtured through early tenuous years. For years the confederation had little going for it. On the field Australia and, to a lesser extent, New Zealand dominated. The island nations simply made up the numbers. Whipping boys who contributed little. Not any more. At under-20 and under-17 level New Zealand teams were shut out of recent playoffs. Earlier this year Vanuatu's under-23 team went close to ending New Zealand's Olympic hopes. The pressure was on the senior teams from the smaller nations to step up. In Adelaide for the Nations Cup they met that challenge, scuppered New Zealand's Confederations and World Cup dreams and gave Australia a timely reality check. This was no fluke. The Solomon Islands performance in drawing with, and being unlucky not to beat, the Socceroos was the best performance by an island nation since Dempsey embarked on his dream journey. The days of kick and hope, hoofing and chasing the long ball and basing their game on strength rather than skill have gone. Under imported coaches, Britons Allan Gillet and Tony Buesnel with the Solomons and Fiji respectively and Australian-based, Uruguyan Carlos Buzzetti with Vanuatu, the improvement is obvious. The Solomons were outstanding. They outplayed New Zealand but somehow lost 3-0. In the game regarded as the test of island superiority, the Solomons beat Fiji 2-1. Against Australia Gillet lifted his team to a higher plane. Refusing to be intimidated by the hosts and determined to give their hopes of claiming a play-off spot a real shot, they outplayed the Socceroos. They had a game plan and stuck to it. Even when Australia recovered some composure to go 2-1 ahead, the Solomon Islanders refused to yield. In the end they deserved better than 2-2. Magnificently led by Batram Suri and with solid support from Commons Menapi and Henry Fa'arodo, the Solomons had three class strikers. Defensively they were as well equipped with Nelson Kilifa, George Suri and Batram Suri's 17-year-old brother Gideon Omokrio. New Zealand could have done with some of their enthusiasm, determination and skill. Too often the All Whites simply came up short when it counted. Sloppy play led to shaky efforts against the Solomons and Vanuatu, and eventually their demise. Mick Waitt's "give youth a chance" mantra was partially successful with Tony Lochhead, Steven Old, Neil Jones and David Mulligan making the most of their opportunities. Their good work could have, in the end, made a real difference if they had received the support and leadership from the senior "pros". Sadly these players were too often anonymous. The most experienced, Simon Elliott, rarely sighted. Gillet, a coaching troubadour who has had stints in, among others Japan and Malawi, was not surprised by the Solomons' second placing. His players produced football as disciplined as ever seen by an island nation. Employed on a short-term basis, Gillet is uncertain of his ongoing relationship with the Solomons. Given the chance, he would like to continue to October's Confederations Cup home and away play-offs with Australia. He says the home tie in Honiara will be the biggest event in island soccer history and predicts a sellout crowd of more than 20,000 - with even more outside the ground. It will be an intimidating atmosphere but a great football occasion with the match to be played on a pitch as good as any in Australia or New Zealand. Gillet is quick to assure Socceroos coach Frank Farina he and his players will be made welcome in a nation which puts gang warfare aside for football. The progress made by the smaller nations in Adelaide has given soccer the biggest possible fillip. Left behind, New Zealand Soccer must work quickly to recover. With what they showed, it is obvious the islanders no longer feel intimidated. To keep ahead of the pack New Zealand must act decisively or find they, in future, might not be the team handed an armchair ride into the second round of OFC competitions. Crowdie