Question for DC United supporters

Discussion in 'D.C. United' started by FatAndUgly, Jun 28, 2005.

  1. FatAndUgly

    FatAndUgly New Member

    Apr 5, 2005
    Huntington Beeyatch
    I attended last year's MLS Cup final in Carson, California, and although I was rooting on DC United, the play of one player in particular really disappointed me. No, I'm not talking about Freddy Adu, although few would argue that that was one of his better performances

    (sidenote: when I was 16, I played soccer for Green Run High School in Virginia Beach (state finalists two years in a row at the time). I won the award for the best male athlete (of any sport) that year for the Virginia Beach/Norfolk/Chesapeake/Porstmouth/Hampton/Newport News area. I was recruited by numerous Div-1-A colleges (ended up signing with William and Mary), and thought I was the best player around. No matter what terrible things people say about Freddy Adu, he's better at 16 than almost every player I've ever witnessed at that age, including (choke, gasp) myself. So I say give the kid a break!)

    Anyway, back to my story. The player I'm referring to is Jaime Moreno. During that final, he clutched, grabbed, tripped, dissented, etc etc etc, and basically made himself look like an a**. I haven't followed his career, but I was wondering if that performance was out of character for him, or if it's the norm. And if it's normal, why does coach Nowak put up with it? What do DC United fans think of his play? Does he have a bad attitude off the field as well?

    Is it also possible that the things I witnessed are the primary reasons he hasn't been included in Bolivia's national side for some time?

    Just curious,

    Ed
     
  2. MeridianFC

    MeridianFC Member

    Jul 26, 1999
    Washington, DC USA
    Ed,

    I'm going to assume your inquiry is genuine but I'll just give you heads up that Jaime is one of United's most beloved players. Ever. Be prepared for some, ahem, strong replies to your criticism/observation.
     
  3. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This should be interesting...
     
  4. JoeSoccerFan

    JoeSoccerFan Member+

    Aug 11, 2000
    Just to clarify, FatAndUgly is not my sock puppet!

    I wonder who's sock puppet it is?
     
  5. Red&Black

    Red&Black Member+

    Aug 30, 2001
    Lot 8
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Burkina Faso
    if i believed in negative rep...
     
  6. evanpemsocr

    evanpemsocr New Member

    Jun 11, 2004
    Rocky Mount, Va
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I do. just kidding Ed ;)
     
  7. roadkit

    roadkit Greetings from the Fringe of Obscurity

    Jul 2, 2003
    Fornax Cluster
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That it's awesome. I sat next to Jaime at a charity benefit before they kick-off of last year's season. He was the perfect gentleman and I've never heard anything different from anyone else.

    What I find puzzling is for someone who apprently watches soccer, you thought he was so bad. There are far more players in MLS and other leagues around the world who are genuine a-holes. He's not one of them. But he's not a leaf-eater either.

    Strange observation. :confused:
     
  8. Sundevil9

    Sundevil9 New Member

    Nov 23, 1999
    Reston, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Now that I've thought about it for a bit, I'll offer up this:

    Jamie has been one of the most (if not the most) fouled players in MLS history. He's taken more than his fair share of knocks and clutching over the years. At times, I thought I was watching DC United play against the NHL's New Jersey Devils. :(

    Yes, Jamie dishes some out, but it's but a fraction of what's served to him. And since the ref's won't protect the strikers he must fend for himself out there. I've never seen him trip a player (except in trying to win a ball), but I have seen him clutch and grab.
     
  9. McOwen

    McOwen Member

    Jun 13, 2000
    Retirement Community
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Well since everyone else is being so polite...

    Should I just tell him to go fvck himself? :D
     
  10. BBBulldog

    BBBulldog Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 25, 2004
    Dinamo Zagreb
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    I think he has a point, just look how Jaime is treating Freddy :(
     
  11. Begbie

    Begbie New Member

    Mar 10, 2001
    La Barra Brava
    Wow it's a bloodly big surprise he has two EPL teams as his favorites.
    Too bad Jaime doesn't meet your standards.
    Jaime is quality on the field and off. If you don't like him fvck off.
    Love,La Barra Brava :)
     
  12. Diablo10

    Diablo10 New Member

    Jaime is pure class on and off the field!! He will go down in MLS history as one of the best all time! Dale Jaime!!!!!
     
  13. subbuteo

    subbuteo New Member

    Dec 17, 2002
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It was a Cup final, he did what he could get away with to win. He's a winner.

    We have a winner!
     
  14. dc1955

    dc1955 New Member

    Jul 10, 2003
    Fat, dumb and ugly is no way to go through life, boy.

    Dean Wormer
    Faber College
     
  15. GrillMaster

    GrillMaster Member

    Aug 31, 2000
    Alexandria, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    four words for you:

    drop and roll, muthafugger!

    GM
     
  16. FatAndUgly

    FatAndUgly New Member

    Apr 5, 2005
    Huntington Beeyatch
    Thanks for the replies, particularly to SunDevil 9 for the comments on the amount of fouls Moreno's received. I didn't know that. But I do have a few comments:

    1. As I said, I did cheer for DC United in that game, so my query wasn't a dig at United supporters. I was reporting what I witnessed (I had front-row seats) and wondered if that was on par with his standard play. Most posters who replied appear to be diehard DC United fans, so I wouldn't be surprised if some of you have that game on tape, if you wanted to take a closer look at what I saw at the Home Depot Center.

    2. I made no statement or implication regarding his off-field persona. I was just asking what he was like.

    3. I made no comparison to clutchers and grabbers in the premiership (Ashley Cole comes immediately to mind), or dirty players (Andy Todd, for example), nor did I claim that dirty players don't exist in other leagues. In fact, I never said Moreno was a dirty player all the time. That was the point of my post. I witnessed it in one game and wondered if it was usual.

    4. Cheers to those who love their team - try to remember that people post here to get information also, not simply to bash other teams/posters.

    If anyone has anything more intelligent to say than telling me to f-off, I'd like to hear what people's thoughts are on why Moreno has been left off the Bolivian National team. He obviously has the talent, has he slowed a bit with age? Or is it a mystery?
     
  17. Doctor Woo

    Doctor Woo Member

    Nov 5, 1999
    Newport, OR
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Now, kids, give benefit of the doubt here (tapping foot and looking disapproving). Everyone's entitled to their opinions, play nice...

    I think going onto our boards and saying bad things about the best striker in the history of our franchise who has a nine-year history of being a stand-up guy who knows the limits of playing within the rules and what the refs allow him to get away with, is, well, possibly considered to be trolling.

    As much of a fishstick I think El Pescadito is, the only way I take to Dallas' board is if he knifes one of ours, then I will take it there. To just go and say neg stuff to draw a crowd and be a general ass, it just ain't neighborly. That may not be your intent, but don't be surprised if folks take it that way.

    Edit: after seeing your follow-up post, I don't think you really are trolling. We probably are blinded a bit by love-of-team, but I can't say I ever noticed Jaime to be any worse than anyone else in the league and better than most. You've played the game; one way to create space is to make it yourself. Saying strikers in the MLS don't clutch and grab is like saying NFL linemen don't hold. They all do, just within parameters.
     
  18. MikeLastort2

    MikeLastort2 Member

    Mar 28, 2002
    Takoma Park, MD
    I do, but I'll have to wait to tommorow to send it since I've reached the end of my rep allotment for the last 24 hours.
     
  19. FatAndUgly

    FatAndUgly New Member

    Apr 5, 2005
    Huntington Beeyatch
    <<To just go and say neg stuff to draw a crowd and be a general ass, it just ain't neighborly. That may not be your intent, but don't be surprised if folks take it that way.>>

    Point taken. It wasn't my intent, but I know how passionate people are about football!

    Honestly, not knowing much about him, I was expecting to hear that he was like that all the time. I was happily surprised that he wasn't.

    It's good to hear that he's well liked by his home crowd, and I'm glad I cheered for DC United that day. But nothing anyone can tell me will refute what I saw during that one game. I sat close enough to hear Nowak's comments to the players on the bench, hear every word the other bench warmers said to Freddy Adu about the media circus around him, and could see and hear pretty clearly what Jaime was saying to the ref and to the opposing players, and it wasn't kind. And he used his hands to clutch and grab quite a bit, then pretend he didn't, and give an earful to the ref about what he pretended he didn't just do. I would expect a lot of fans to say that he did what he had to do to win, but I don't buy that. Not as a player for twenty+ years. It's just not sportsmanlike.

    I'm happy to accept every positive comment the posters here give regarding Jaime, and assume he woke up on the wrong side of the bed or something that morning. After all, the hotels here in Carson ain't all that luxurious.

    Good luck to United for the rest of the season.

    Ed
     
  20. subbuteo

    subbuteo New Member

    Dec 17, 2002
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    no worries

    sarcasm runs rampant on these boards
     
  21. JoeW

    JoeW New Member

    Apr 19, 2001
    Northern Virginia, USA
    Even though I'm a DCU fan, I think I've got a decent reputation for being somewhat dispassionate. I'll plead ignorance for the final--I didn't spend the match focusing on Jaime Moreno. Maybe your impression was true--maybe he spent it all clutching, grabbing, complaining, whinning, diving, etc.

    But that wasn't the impression I got from the game (again, maybe you were focusing solely on him--I wasn't). If he did behave that way, that's certainly not what his career is like. I think the earlier point about the fouls he's received and how his career was nearly wiped out b/c of them (just go back to the comments Thomas Rongen made publicly in the US Open final against the Revs in 2000 I believe, but said about Moreno's career--and Rongen could say them publicly b/c it was a USSF event, not an MLS one so Rongen couldn't be fined for disparaging the referees).

    Your comments don't make sense to me. Moreno doesn't have the rep of a Ruiz or Serna (ie: strikers who foul extensively and often violently, often simulate). Moreno receives much more than he gives (from watching him I form that conclusion, from looking at how often he's fouled and carded versus how often the reverse happens to him I form that conclusion). So if Moreno really offended you, than where does that put other strikers who are far worse--in the company of the anti-Christ? There's a lot of clutching, grabbing, complaining that goes on in any soccer game. Are you saying Jaime Moreno was the only player to be engaging in that in the Final? Or that he was far more abusive in this regard than other players? Again, that doesn't fit my experience of him as a player.

    Or are you just saying you thought he didn't do any of these things, and the fact that he did bothered you?
     
  22. Bill Urban

    Bill Urban New Member

    Feb 29, 2000
    lilburn, ga.
    Ed:

    Jaime did nothing that Carra or Edman or Hyppia or Defoe doesn't do fifty times every game.

    when was the last time you were at White Hart Lane or Anfield?

    go to a match at either of those places, and watch your players play. the experience will be exactly the same as your viewing of Moreno. in fact, you only need to watch FSC's Premiership coverage to see them exact same thing every week.

    clutching, grabbing, swearing and arguing with the ref are part and parcel of the modern game.

    sportsmanlike? no.

    commonplace. yes.

    the problem with your post is that you made it out like Jaime's behavior was atypical.

    it's not. at all.
     
  23. united to the bone

    united to the bone New Member

    Nov 18, 2004
    Rosedale Maryland
    Let me add my 2 cents. Jaime has never spat on anyone like some players have. Jaime has never needed to be restrained from attacking a fan like some players have. He never has been benched by a coach for bad attitude like some players do. What he has done is worked his ass off to come back from a bad back and knee problems (which the league failed to reward him for by not giveing him the comeback player of the year). He is still the most respected forward in the league. Just watch any D.C. United game when Jaime has the ball the defender does not rush in to challenge Jaime, they usually back off knowing Jaime can make them look like sh-t with one sweet move. If you need an example, refer to last weeks goal-of-the-week. Now that's Jaime!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  24. FatAndUgly

    FatAndUgly New Member

    Apr 5, 2005
    Huntington Beeyatch
    I watch a LOT of football. More than my fiancee would like, hee hee. And watching it live, yes, you do get the benefit of watching whatever part of the game you want to watch, rather than what the TV cameras serve. I understand all of this.

    Can I just say for the record, once and for all, that I did not come here to purposely piss anyone off. I had never read a single post on this board before my own so I don't know what kind of trash talk, etc is done on the MLS boards. And I still don't know what neg rep is all about on these boards (although it sounds bad - lol). So everyone please try to relax. Besides, how much fun would these boards be if we all agreed on everything?

    I did not focus solely on Moreno, and almost everything I witnessed was when he had the ball, or was trying to get the ball, or immediately thereafter. The TV coverage might have painted a different picture, so I guess there's not much point in arguing over the details. I saw what I saw, and one THAT day, he was by far the worst offender, plain and simple.

    We can discuss who is the worst offender on any given day in other leagues too, but it wouldn't make much sense to do it here, would it? I'm accepting that perhaps it was just his play on that one day - what more do some of you want? My first-born? Well, too damn late, because he wants to play for Chelsea, although I still have time to talk him out of it.

    Ed
     
  25. Doctor Woo

    Doctor Woo Member

    Nov 5, 1999
    Newport, OR
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Coulda warned you, a real lightning-rod thing to say.

    Please, it does get boring if people don't stir the waters occasionally, but expect controversy and try to keep a thick skin,
     

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