problems with referees

Discussion in 'Referee' started by nicodemus, Oct 18, 2003.

  1. nicodemus

    nicodemus Member+

    Sep 3, 2001
    Cidade Mágica
    Club:
    PAOK Saloniki
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sorry about the thread title, I just couldn't think of anything else to call it.

    Anyway, most of the referees I come across do a fine job, but some of them do some things that are completely out of bounds by my estimation.

    I coach U-10s and have seen the following things that I think are big problems with people refereeing this age group:

    1. Refs giving players a second chance on throw ins if they mess the first one up. He only makes it a turnover if they mess up their second chance. I've worked hard on teaching my kids to throw in properly and my kids made more bad throw-ins that day than ever before, and I think it was due to his announced laxness.

    2. Had a keeper injury twice today and they let the play continue. A field player I can understand, but to let it continue with a keeper down seems dangerous and stupid.

    My questions are this:

    a) are these the kinds of things I should report and
    b) is it worth it to do so (as in, if they agree with me, will they actually do anything?)
     
  2. Crowdie

    Crowdie New Member

    Jan 23, 2003
    Auckland, New Zealand
    I have done the above in some games. When you are dealing with Under 10s the referee is not going to call everything (it depends on the teams, tournament, etc). As an example, I refereed two Under 12 teams at a tournament (the two teams were last and second to last and this was the last qualification game) and both team's confidence was shot. They had been on the receiving end of some big hidings and their throw ins were pretty poor. As the referee I could have penalised them for the poor throws but what would that have achieved? The two teams had a great game enjoyed by everybody and they finished the tournament on a high. It was a win win situation for everybody.

    Look up the league/tournament rules for the referees. This will have a section on handling injuries for juniors. In our leagues here we MUST stop the game for all injuries if the player does not get up after 5 seconds. Your local rules will most likely be different.

    Your first course of action is to speak to the referee. He/She may be aware of a local rule that you are not.

    If you are not happy with the referee's response then team officials always have the option of approaching the league/tournamet organiser and/or the local referees association.

    Always remember that the vast majority of referees are paid so little that it is a labour of love. If you are not happy with the local standard of referees then your local referees association would be more than happy to train you to referee.

    Crowdie
     
  3. propes

    propes New Member

    Jun 22, 1999
    St. Paul, MN, USA
    At the U10 level, even if it's labeled as competitive, most refs won't treat it as such - not meaning they won't work, but that the game is primarily about learning and having fun. So it's not uncommon for refs to give a second chance about throw-ins. If it's happening excessively, I'd talk to the assignor for the club or league, who can either tell you that this is the expected behavior for the league, or have a talk with the refs for future games.

    As for #2, you have two ways of looking at it. The classic way of looking at U10 is that any injury should result in a whistle to attend to the injured player. The more competitve the game (and usually, the older the players), the less likely there will be a whistle. Goalkeepers have special rights and responsibilities when it comes to handing the ball and how they're dressed, but are otherwise no different than any other player.

    Neither case needs anything as formal as "reporting" - I'd just have a chat with the assignor, without talking about specific refs, and s/he can help straighten out any problems. Although, personally, if you're worred about #2, I wouldn't complain about #1. :)
     
  4. nicodemus

    nicodemus Member+

    Sep 3, 2001
    Cidade Mágica
    Club:
    PAOK Saloniki
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thanks for the suggestions. Once again, I'm not railing on the refs, I just want to improve everything about soccer...the refs, the players, my coaching, etc. :D
     
  5. TN Jed

    TN Jed New Member

    Oct 29, 2001
    Excellent responses. I would add that Nicodemus can use this as a teaching moment to improve sportsmanship and instruct his players to knock the ball out of bounds when they see a player staying down, so that the referee can assess the situation and call for attention, without expecting him to make the call and interrupt play. Then the opposing coach or referee can help to instruct or suggest the team to throw it in to the opponent who put the ball into touch. This, as I'm sure you know, is the sporting tradition at all levels of soccer and good to let the kids know the big picture that everyone should be concerned each other's health and safety.

    An additional point is that expecting the referee to immediately stop play as soon as a goalie goes down could be exploited by unscrupulous and unsportsmanlike coaches, of which unfortunately there are a few.
     
  6. nsa

    nsa Member+

    New England Revolution; Boston Breakers
    United States
    Feb 22, 1999
    Notboston, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Many rec level leagues will specifically state that retries are allowed. Remember, at the U10 level, all of the players are still learning. One of these kids could be the next Twellman.

    Consider the age of the referee. S/he is learning, too.

    Yes and yes.

    Assignors want (and need) to know what's happening out there. They may simply have a word about safety or they may ask an assessor to observe the referee.

    However, at the game, consider the age of the referee at your game. Just like your players are learning the game, the referee is learning how to referee the game. All it takes is one jerk coach or parent to lose 1-3 years of referee training.
     
  7. nicodemus

    nicodemus Member+

    Sep 3, 2001
    Cidade Mágica
    Club:
    PAOK Saloniki
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Excellent idea. Thanks!

    I wasn't expecting an immediate stop, but the kid was down close to a minute before he blew the whistle.

    True. Unfortunately there are unsportsmanlike coaches in U-10 :(
     
  8. nicodemus

    nicodemus Member+

    Sep 3, 2001
    Cidade Mágica
    Club:
    PAOK Saloniki
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I guess I just get frustrated with that type of thing. They didn't "soften" the game for us as kids and I guess it just frustrates me to see it done now.

    Cool, thanks for the suggestion.

    I don't yell at referees and don't let my kids yell at each other. I tell them we're out to have fun and to learn. I always say, in addition to learning to be better soccer players, we need to learn to be better people too.
     
  9. Turin

    Turin New Member

    Sep 14, 2003
    California


    This is a good attitude to have. Keeping the game in perspective is something that some people cannot seem to do, namely spectators. I have seen many youth referees quit refereeing because they get yelled at to much. It's sad that some parents can't look past themselves and see that by yelling at youth referees, they only hurt the game. :(
     
  10. nsa

    nsa Member+

    New England Revolution; Boston Breakers
    United States
    Feb 22, 1999
    Notboston, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No suggestion that you did. Just an observation about a fringe 5% that are out there. :(

    Another observation with absolutely nothing to do with Nico's questions: I was chatting with a GJV coach today, an adult, late 20's, who said that she ref'd for several years. The last game she did resulted in a coach being suspended for 3 years. Despite the support from the soccer orgs, we still lost her as a referee.

    Funny, I always hated the hassle of parents when I was coaching, yet I can ignore the "jerks" along the touchline when I ref. Different strokes, ...
     
  11. Gary V

    Gary V Member+

    Feb 4, 2003
    SE Mich.
    Our rec league has this as a modification through u8. Consequently, I call far more bad throws in u8 than I do in u10, since they have the opportunity to do a retake. It gives them a learning experience. In my u10 games, a throw has to be pretty horrendous to qualify as foul. That toe coming 3/4" off the ground just doesn't qualify.

    USYSA has a solution to all this - they replace throw-ins with kick-ins in their small-sided modified rules through u10. Coming soon to a field near you!
     
  12. nsa

    nsa Member+

    New England Revolution; Boston Breakers
    United States
    Feb 22, 1999
    Notboston, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    When a coach squawks, you tell him that there was a long blade of grass.
    Fifteen years ago we went the opposite way with our in-town U6/U8 program. Any time the ball left the field, it was a throw-in. Corner kicks became throw-ins from the corner. Goal kicks became throw-ins at the top of our penalty area where it intersected the touch-line.
     
  13. Bob G

    Bob G New Member

    Jan 11, 2000
    Colorado Springs
    I've never been a fan of giving the U-littles retakes either unless the league rules specifically directed it.

    Sometimes, the other team returns the favor and makes a bad throw of their own.

    One thing I've never seen is a bad third throw (the original team's second throw). Their throw may draw a little laughter, but I guarantee it's good enough to get the game going again.
     
  14. Claymore

    Claymore Member

    Jul 9, 2000
    Montgomery Vlg, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You're not getting FIFA refs at the U-10 level, you're getting first-season refs who will more than occasionally mess up. It's part of the learning process. In many cases, these new refs have to "un-learn" years of myths and half-truths about the LOTG. If they stick with it (which is a big problem, by the way), they'll come to understand the correct application of the Laws. Give it time.
     
  15. pepperref

    pepperref New Member

    Jan 6, 2000
    "1. Refs giving players a second chance on throw ins if they mess the first one up. He only makes it a turnover if they mess up their second chance. I've worked hard on teaching my kids to throw in properly and my kids made more bad throw-ins that day than ever before, and I think it was due to his announced laxness."

    I find it interesting that your players chose to ignore your hard work in teaching them proper throw-in technique just because the ref was giving them second chances on bad ones.

    Personally, I've never seen second chances in U10 club games, but in rec leagues, U10 is still considered a learning age, and the ones I'm familiar with encourage refs to do a little teaching on throw-ins, goalkicks, kick-offs, freekicks, etc.
     

Share This Page