Seems like the PRO2 officials are trying to get a union much without the help of PRO. Our statement regarding PRO's decision to fight the unionization efforts of their NWSL & USL Officials in PRO2.Our PRO2 officials desire a professional structure as well as training & instruction environments needed to improve the officiating in these leagues.#PRO #NWSL #USL pic.twitter.com/DSMxlg8Z4N— PSRA Officials (@PSRAofficials) August 24, 2021 Where is the direction of USL/NWSL referees going? Is the situation this dire? Has it always been this dire?
Prefacing this with that I fully support PSRA and their efforts to support referees. But I am trying to wrap my head around how multiple bargaining units would work within the same groups (referees/ARs). For example, say a union PRO2 referee gets an opportunity as a trialist in MLS. PSRA then represents the interests of both the trialist and the regular veteran officials, but presumably under different CBAs? Or am I overthinking this? Again I have no doubt in PSRA's ability to do a great job, I'm just trying to understand how that works when the two bargaining units rub together (if they do).
You expect PRO, the employer, to say "Oh, sure, we'll let you be yet another union we have to negotiate with?" I can't help but note that USSF is not mentioned here, although, for referees outside PRO, they are supposed to be the source of the, apparently, inadequate training. It sounds like "training:" isn't the real issue here. They just want to be full time. Where would that money come from? Are there any USL teams that are cash flow positive? PRO officials are employees of PRO. These PSRA officials are independent contractors.
Good for them for trying to take advantage of the wave of officiating complains in USL/NWSL. I don't really know what "more training" means. I'm going to guess most PRO2 guys can look at video clips and do just as well as MLS/FIFA guys. Let's face it, as always it goes back to experience. Most of these guys are still doing their first couple dozen semi-pro/pro games at this level. They're still trying to learn from the inevitable mistakes they're going to make. In England you make those mistakes in Tier 9 and in the US you make them in Tier 2 (and Tier 1 for the women's game).
PSRA is just an association. The BU is the union that you join when you are hired into MLS. There would be a BU2. You would join when you are hired into NWSL/USL. The CBA with PRO for the BU/MLS referees already covers all the issues around trial spots. So the only change, if a BU2 union came to fruition, would be that new hires into the BU would then leave the BU2. So, yes, two separate CBAs.
No. Though the fact that they've been considering voluntarily recognition for months, only to finally say "no," might be noteworthy. Regardless, the point here is that PRO is an agent of the NWSL and USL in this regard. The leagues don't want to pay for professionalized officials. USSF is almost completely irrelevant (and the use of "almost" in this sentence is extraordinarily generous). The PRO2 officals are called PRO2 officials because, well, they answer to PRO. They get assigned by PRO. They are paid by PRO. PRO controls everything. PRO is the agent of USL and the NWSL. USSF has nothing to do with this. "Full-time" is a massive stretch. But how about travel reimbursement caps that don't stick you in a Motel 6? Or travel costs reimbursed for fourth officals? Or maybe just travel arrangements made by PRO without reimbursement necessary?(!) Or minimum standards for locker rooms so you're not changing in the parking lot or across the hall from a public restroom? Or parking spaces that are actually on-site? Or pay conmensurate with the amount of time needed to fly to a different city, referee a game, and fly back the next day? I mean, first of all, yes, the referees do want to get better and do want to be compensated for the time and effort they are already putting in. That's part of it. But no one thinks an AR in the USL is going "full-time" any time soon. To the second point, the money comes from the leagues. If they want a better product and more professionalized referee with professional standards, they have to pay for it. They can't? Oh. Then I guess we can carry on treating both leagues as amateur competitions from a refereeing standpoint. These sentences don't make any sense. I don't understand what point you're trying to make here. BU members, who are also members of the PSRA, are "PRO employees." They referee in MLS. But the "PRO2" unit is a formalized structure, made of (mostly) other PSRA members, who officiate in the NWSL and USL. The fact that, right now, they are independent contractors is the whole point here. They are independent in name, yet part of a PRO structure with training requirements, instructional requirements, and expectations around availability and travel. That's why they want to unionize and formalize the structure so they can collectively bargain, thereby improving off-field and on-field conditions. They want to be employees (no, not necessarily full-time) of PRO, too. Instead, PRO--because the leagues are cheap--want to keep them as independent contractors and assign on an ad hoc basis. That's what this is about.
The point I was trying to make is that independent contractors are not employees. Normally, when a union tries to organize a business, they are trying to unionize the people that are already employed by the company. If you are not an employee, you have no legal standing to unionize. As you say, 'they are independent in name.' Therefore, this group will first have to convince the NLRB that they are not really independent contractors, even though they have worked as independent contractors for years. Hey, I get that these games don't pay much. Been there, done that. But nobody was forcing me to do those games and I knew before hand how much or little I was going to get. I still chose to do them. YMMV, but I don't know anyone who turned down that level of game because the pay wasn't enough.
You convey that message as though it’s a good thing? This is, in fact, the problem. If a good referee that expects appropriate compensation and professional standard takes a stand, they’ll just move on and fill the gaps. With people less-qualified. For leagues where stakeholders are already complaining about quality. I don’t know how else to put this. Also, the myopic focus on pay is misplaced here. Nothing I wrote above was hyperbole. Crappy hotels that you find on your own. No dedicated locker rooms or substandard ones at some venues. Sunk costs for transport for some officials. Expectations around online instruction and review without compensation. That’s not even getting into things like COVID protocol protections and support around referee assault and abuse with the leagues. The list goes on. In no way are the referees for these two leagues treated as professionals. Yet they are expected to act like them. And the competitions are billed as professional leagues. This isn’t USISL 1993 anymore. It’s supposed to be the premier women’s league in the world and a true professional second men’s division. Something has to give.
While all true, is it really different from other sports? Minor league baseball umpires have pathetic pay and travel conditions, too- and also do it for the dream of getting to the Show. I’m not saying it’s right, but it’s a pretty basic function of economics—supply and demand and the value the buyer places in the differentiation among widgets.
Minor league baseball teams play like a 150-game schedule, right? And their umpires work the full season and are, I would imagine, consequently salaried. The salaries are probably well short of six-figures, so no one is getting rich. And no one is looking for a Ritz in Scranton or a Waldorf in Des Moines. But I can guarantee compensation and standards are much better than they are for NWSL and USL. Because, well, there is no set compensation and there are no real standards. Look, "full-time" is not the ask here. And a focus on overall or high compensation is misplaced. That's not what this is about. But there's something between first-class airfare/six-figure salaries and "carpool with someone local and don't try to submit the hotel breakfast for reimbursement" that we should expect for our second tier of professional officials and our top tier of women's professional officials. I'm completely sympathetic to supply and demand arguments, but that's where PSRA is trying to exert leverage. Because there has been a lot of noise recently regarding the demand for better officiating. The ball is in NWSL's and USL's court to supply it.
With the endless complaining about how terrible refereeing is, I would like to see every league deal with a situation like the NFL had in 2012 when the referee union locked out and the NFL had to pull up refs from college to do NFL games, and it resulted is the most abominable officiating the league had ever seen and made people realize that NFL refs actually aren't that bad. While football is much harder to referee than soccer, I'm trying to imagine a situation that could occur on the field that's as bad as the Fail Mary with two referees simultaneously signaling two different outcomes. So if unionizing will create the opportunity for that to happen, where they can end up refusing to ref games until they get better conditions, and they have to pull my ass up into semi-pro and watch me blow chunks and it leads to the lockout ending to make sure I don't see their field again, I'm all for it.
MLS Lockout like gaolin mentioned. And they had college/national officials come in. There were some scabs. It was fiasco. not sure how this would play out if the whole PRO2 decides to picket....
A. The Fail Mary was arguably ruled correctly, but ESPN set the tone of the discussion being on-site with their post-game literally minutes, if not seconds, after the call with their talk of horrible replacement refs changing the game B. "with two referees simultaneously signaling two different outcomes" - Like when an AR has a flag up for offside while the CR says goal? Or when the AR says corner and the CR says goal kick? We accept that refs look at different things in soccer and have to confer to get to the correct call, that's all that happened on the NFL play (which happens every NFL game but again, ESPN wanted to highlight "replacement ref" issues).
Based on the referees' (well, one referee's ruling) of simultaneous possession, the play was correctly called as defined in the rules. The issue is that there was absolutely no way that was simultaneous possession. It was just a bad call. Tate came in way late and grabbed the ball hoping to get a favorable call. He got it. That play was completely justified as a way to bring the full-time officials back.
It really wasn't a fiasco, at least certainly compared to the NFL lockout. I asked some players and coaches in MLS at the time and they said they really didn't notice much of a difference. It wasn't some debacle or "fiasco." Some said to me, "they are screwing up just like the regular guys." I remember clearly that PSRA had a "the sky is falling" freakout when it was announced that replacement referees were going to be used. It was classic fear mongering to get the public and the players on their side. They started talking about "players careers were endangered, safety, etc." From what I remember the refereeing wasn't grotesquely subpar compared to the regular batch officials. One thing that stood out to me was that referees were just terrified of making big decisions and sending players off. Some easy red cards for DOGSO and 2CT were just swallowed, but I think that was more due to instruction rather than nerves or incompetence. But overall match control and match management wasn't any noticeably different. In fact, there are many referees that owe their standing in MLS currently due to being scabs. PRO essentially used the lockout to make Alan Kelly the #1 or #2 referee in MLS (at least based on assignments).
Except what defines possession and a catch? Control of the ball and two feet on the ground in bounds. Did the defender have control first? Yes, absolutely. But when the defender got two feet on the ground who had possession then? That was simultaneous. Don't get me wrong. Calling it an interception would have been the expected and more obvious call. But when you actually look at what happened on the play, the TD call is defensible, if not the "most correct" outcome. Hardly the horrible call ESPN was making it out to be.
That's not even remotely accurate, as I believe only one was retained by MLS after and Kelley was still an actual PRO staff member at that time.
There was at least one other that is still active currently in Marcos de Oliveira. Also, there were many non-US FIFA refs called in that wouldn't be eligible and retired refs.
I think the numbers are one referee and four assistants (Weisbrod/Da Silva/Longville/Bigelow). Guardia, who worked as an AR, is also a VAR now. So while I wouldn't classify it as "many," it's not "one" either (unless we are narrowly focused on referees).
You couldn't be more wrong. Look at the assignments. These are the guys that made their MLS debuts as scabs and are still in the league. Alan Kelly Jose Da Silva Marcos De Oliveira Eric Weisbrod Kyle Longville (last season was in 2019) Andrew Bigelow Luis Guardia (did some 4ths and is in MLS as a VAR) Keep in mind they only refereed for two match days and MLS wasn't the 30 team behemoth of a league that it is now. There were only 16 teams in the league and a total of 8 games per match day. So the scabs did a total of 16 games and 7 guys stayed on well after the lockout ended. That's a pretty good return.
Whether they should have crossed the picket line is a debate for another time. Also, the argument could be made that some of the guys listed above would have made it to MLS without crossing the picket line. But you can't say it was a bad move career wise for them.
You could, because things weren't easy for several of them for a bit. There were also financial implications when they ultimately joined the BU. But it's all a totally different discussion and a look back to 2014 does distract from what's going on right now. It's not the same thing.
Agree, but you have to think the short term pain was worth the long term gain. Being a lengthy tenured PRO referee or AR. If some of them had not crossed the picket line, they might have had to push back their debuts and thus push back joining the bargaining unit and miss out on all those game fees and the raises that come with longer tenure in game fees. From a relationship standpoint with your fellow referee brothers, it was a bad move, but from a financial standpoint I don't see how it wasn't. They started their PRO clock, "so to speak," so much earlier. I think PRO2 will get recognized as a union, but how would a lockout or strike look? On USL games, it's mostly one or two people that are officially part of PRO2 and the rest of the crew is local/regional Regional or Grassroots Referees. Would PSRA essentially ask all USSF referees to not do these games if PRO2 officials were locked out or on strike. Basically, have them go uncovered?