The commentators said that it was silent on the pitch side while they had the VAR check. That must be an odd feeling.
I don’t understand why we had to watch Moss spend 3.5 minutes drawing lines on the electronic field. You could clearly see the ball hit the offside player while he was on the deck before the shot. On the backside video it seemed obvious it hit him.
I think this is a difficult decision mostly Bc you have to make a distinction between was this interfering with play or an opponent. If they were trying to decipher if this was interfering with play then where the ball hits them matters as it hit more of his backside Which looked to be onside. Not sure if this is splitting hairs but I think they deemed it interfering with an opponent aka Kepa’s line of sight and ability to play the ball.
BREAKING: Statement from PGMOLOn ruling out Tomáš Souček’s goal: "The on-field decision was to award the goal, but the VAR advised the referee that Michail Antonio was in an offside position and directly in the line of vision of Kepa Arrizabalaga." pic.twitter.com/sOTlB0vXuC— talkSPORT (@talkSPORT) July 1, 2020
I didn't see the ball clearly hit the player in offside position, so it can't be interfering with play if it doesn't touch him, so must be interfering with an opponent. I could see the argument for interfering with the defender... but in line of vision? I'm really not convinced at all. Also... 3 minutes to determine offside? Of which a good 45s was lining up the lines on a player that was CLEARLY in an offside position? It's almost like they don't know what they're doing.
That's not relevant. If part of me is in an offside position, all of me is deemed to be. Even if that ball hits a portion of my body that is "onside".
Matchweek 33 Norwich - Brighton Referee: Stuart Attwell. Assistants: Constantine Hatzidakis, Neil Davies. Fourth official: John Brooks. Replacement official: Anthony Da Costa. VAR: David Coote. Assistant VAR: Sian Massey-Ellis. Leicester - Crystal Palace Referee: Jonathan Moss. Assistants: Marc Perry, Peter Kirkup. Fourth official: Jarred Gillett. Replacement official: Andrew Fox. VAR: Martin Atkinson. Assistant VAR: Adam Nunn. Man Utd - Bournemouth Referee: Mike Dean. Assistants: Simon Bennett, Darren Cann. Fourth official: Anthony Taylor. Replacement official: Paul Hodskinson. VAR: Lee Mason. Assistant VAR: Adrian Holmes. Wolves - Arsenal Referee: Michael Oliver. Assistants: Stuart Burt, Dan Cook. Fourth official: Andre Marriner. Replacement official: Craig Taylor. VAR: Paul Tierney. Assistant VAR: Lee Betts. Chelsea - Watford Referee: Kevin Friend. Assistants: Simon Beck, Dan Robathan. Fourth official: Simon Hooper. Replacement official: Nigel Lugg. VAR: Graham Scott. Assistant VAR: Stephen Child. Burnley - Sheffield Referee: Peter Bankes. Assistants: Gary Beswick, Ian Hussin. Fourth official: Anthony Taylor. Replacement official: Chris Isherwood. VAR: Stuart Attwell. Assistant VAR: Mark Scholes. Newcastle - West Ham Referee: Craig Pawson. Assistants: Richard West, Eddie Smart. Fourth official: Tony Harrington. Replacement official: Wade Smith. VAR: Simon Hooper. Assistant VAR: Derek Eaton. Liverpool - Aston Villa Referee: Paul Tierney. Assistants: Scott Ledger, Nick Hopton. Fourth official: David Coote. Replacement official: Nik Barnard. VAR: Chris Kavanagh. Assistant VAR: Dan Cook. Southampton - Man City Referee: Andre Marriner. Assistants: Simon Long, Harry Lennard. Fourth official: Keith Stroud. Replacement official: Graham Kane. VAR: Andy Madley. Assistant VAR: Stephen Child. Tottenham - Everton Referee: Graham Scott. Assistants: Mark Scholes, Derek Eaton. Fourth official: Tim Robinson. Replacement official: Robert Hyde. VAR: Kevin Friend. Assistant VAR: Andy Garratt.
Matchweek 34 Crystal Palace - Chelsea Referee: David Coote. Assistants: Neil Davies, Nick Hopton. Fourth official: James Linington. Replacement official: Andrew Laver. VAR: Peter Bankes. Assistant VAR: Ian Hussin. Watford - Norwich Referee: Anthony Taylor. Assistants: Gary Beswick, Adam Nunn. Fourth official: Andy Woolmer. Replacement official: Geoffrey Russell. VAR: Martin Atkinson. Assistant VAR: Constantine Hatzidakis. Arsenal - Leicester Referee: Chris Kavanagh. Assistants: Daniel Cook, Sian Massey-Ellis. Fourth official: Darren England. Replacement official: Carl Fitch-Jackson. VAR: Stuart Attwell. Assistant VAR: Simon Beck. Man City - Newcastle Referee: Andy Madley. Assistants: Richard West, Andy Garratt. Fourth official: Lee Mason. Replacement official: Mark Dwyer. VAR: Andre Marriner. Assistant VAR: Harry Lennard. Sheffield - Wolves Referee: Martin Atkinson. Assistants: Lee Betts, Darren Cann. Fourth official: Anthony Taylor. Replacement official: Hristo Karaivanov. VAR: Jonathan Moss. Assistant VAR: Neil Davies. West Ham - Burnley Referee: Michael Oliver. Assistants: Stuart Burt, Simon Bennett. Fourth official: Graham Scott. Replacement official: Matt Foley. VAR: Kevin Friend. Assistant VAR: Stephen Child. Brighton - Liverpool Referee: Craig Pawson. Assistants: Constantine Hatzidakis, Dan Robathan. Fourth official: Keith Stroud. Replacement official: Stuart Butler. VAR: Simon Hooper. Assistant VAR: Derek Eaton. Bournemouth - Tottenham Referee: Paul Tierney. Assistants: Marc Perry, Simon Long. Fourth official: Steve Martin. Replacement official: Graham Kane. VAR: Michael Oliver. Assistant VAR: Sian Massey-Ellis. Everton - Southampton Referee: Lee Mason. Assistants: Scott Ledger, Adrian Holmes. Fourth official: Michael Salisbury. Replacement official: Andrew Fox. VAR: Andy Madley. Assistant VAR: Mark Scholes Aston Villa - Man Utd Referee: Jonathan Moss. Assistants: Ian Hussin, Eddie Smart. Fourth official: Peter Bankes. Replacement official: Mark Jones. VAR: Graham Scott. Assistant VAR: Stuart Burt.
https://streamgoals.com/video/a9ce234127 Even if this is handball, why isn't the restart the foul that knocked over Moura that the CR signalled he was giving advantage for?
So this is my generic answer to the question. (not to this particular handball) If a team is given advantage, and then waste that advantage and commit a foul, then the restart is for the latest foul....I would think.
This is the problem with the handball rule...identical actions are different whether a goal is scored or not after the action happens. In no other situation is that the case.
But—if I’m seeing things correctly—the advantage is only applied because the handball allows the ball to go to a teammate. It’s not like advantage was applied and then a handball was committed. Also, in this case the handball isn’t even a punishable foul until the goal gets scored. My answer is: I don’t know. You combine VAR protocols with the new handball rule about goal-scoring opportunities and sprinkle in an inconveniently timed advantage and I don’t know what the answer should be. In theory, sure, attacking free kick. But the protocols don’t really explicitly call for that. A VAR is checking an incident to see if the goal is valid. If it’s not, can he go back further because the referee signaled he played advantage on an incident prior to the handball infraction (but must have displayed the signal after the handball)? No idea. Maybe not. And I am confident no English VAR would get creative. Lastly, this is a really poor clip to analyze. You can’t see the handball. You can’t see the advantage. And we don’t see the outcome. So I’m stringing things together based on what was written and am presuming advantage was actually applied. If the poster just thinks it was applied and it never actually was... well then the discussion is irrelevant.
But how? Advantage resulted in an invalid goal and the incident that invalidated the goal occurred prior to advantage being applied. What you’re saying is physically impossible.
Here's a longer clip with replays and the VAR review: https://streamable.com/p1yu43# Not sure how long it will stay up, though.
So it's as I thought based on what was initially written. Advantage isn't applied for the foul until after the handball and, indeed, there is no advantage until the handball. Then VAR invalidates the goal based on the handball. So, sure, fairness should dictate the original foul recognized by the referee is the restart. But this situation isn't explicitly accounted for in the VAR protocols. The added English layer of not having an OFR makes this more challenging because, again, the VAR is just focused on the validity of the goal. With an OFR, more options are open for a referee though I'm still not sure what IFAB would actually say about this.
You aren’t playing advantage to guarantee a goal. You are giving the team a goal scoring opportunity. They took it. The defense didn’t do anything to change that. Was it bad luck that it hit Kane’s hand (for the sake of the discussion let’s assume it did)? Yes. But that’s Kane’s bad luck not the defenses. The advantage was applied and Spurs did something to squander it. I don’t like the law change and I think it’s a trifling touch but it is what it is. If it doesn’t hit his hand and he misses the shot you wouldn’t pull it back.
What's missing here, from what I can tell, is that the 1st foul by Red, CAUSED the foul by Blue. If Moura (Blue) had not been pushed in the back and to the ground by Red, he would not have fallen on the ball. So not only was the handball accidental, (which in this case, as the laws are written, invalidates the goal) but the the new foul was undoubtedly caused by the first foul.
Wait. I’m missing something. I thought the ball hit Kane’s hand. if it hit the other Spurs players hand then there was no advantage played.
The ref clearly signals advantage. I completely agree with SCV that the original foul is what causes the handball. If Moura isn’t knocked to the ground, he never commits a handball. In a perfect world under these LOTG, the ref magically sees the tiny deflection off Moira’s arm and gives the FK to Spurs. I don’t know enough about VAR protocols to say if there was any way to give the DFK to Spurs after reviewing the goal, but that certainly would’ve been more fair to the spirit of the game, IMO. (And add this incident to the long list of reasons I hate the current handball rule.)
Did you watch the second clip? No offense, but you're getting things factually wrong that are critical to discussing this. The goal is disallowed because it hit the arm of the Spurs attacker who was on the ground. The ball then ricocheted to Kane, who scored. The referee applied advantage after that ricochet and when it became clear Kane would possess the ball with a goal-scoring opportunity. The referee was originally going to whistle for the defensive foul that caused the Spurs player (the one who fell to the ground and then had the ball hit his arm) to fall in the first place. That's why I say what you suggested is physically impossible. The VAR is disallowing the goal for the handball. But the handball created the advantage. If not for the handball (which didn't look like a handball and, far more importantly, isn't even a punishable handball if not for the goal) then advantage never would have been applied. Ergo, the common sense fair result is the an attacking free kick. But, as I laid out, getting there with VAR is more complicated than it might seem.
And again, more important is the fact that he didn't "commit" a handball at all. It only ended up being a punishable handball because the ball ended up in the net.