Post-Match USMNT vs. Uruguay 9/10

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by largegarlic, Sep 10, 2019.

  1. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    It was a decent game given the circumstances (deflating score against Mexico and the departure of notable Euro-based players). At times the lack of pace and final third aggression was frustrating but possession was competent and in stretches even meaningful. Boyd should've scored and we were denied a penalty, so on another night 3 goals scored is much better. Of course on another night Guzan's blunder and Dest getting skinned again could've easily led to two more against, but overall I won't be too angry roughly matching Uruguay in chances. Lastly Morris gets a mention as the most standout positive over the two games.

    Onward to that nations thing.
    NietzscheIsDead repped this.
  2. ttrevett

    ttrevett Member+

    Apr 2, 2002
    Atlanta, GA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    By the way, I just watched the highlights, if you can call it that. That was the most garbage of all goals I have ever seen. Two attempted crosses blocked from Lima followed by a ricocheted clearance from the Uruguayan defender that bounced to our player unmarked at the far post. Garbage. What the F was #22 in blue doing? Thinking about where he was meeting the woman of that night after the game most likely.
    SteelyTom repped this.
  3. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    they need to decide are we setting up games to make money or games to prepare the team

    i think the two aligned when we were on the make

    i think the two no longer align

    i think we never should be playing on slap together fields, injury risk, unnatural play relative to what we need to prepare for

    i think we should play a lot more road games

    and worse i think we have lost what knack we briefly had for how to set up a home advantage

    i agree with rapinoe, cash cow
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  4. NietzscheIsDead

    United States
    May 31, 2019
    Another thing that folks need to think a little bit about is that its not necessarily Qatar that the current project is being developed for...its the following world cup that will be played in the US.

    The US team will still be very young when 2022 rolls around, but all of the up and coming players will be in their prime in 2026. Not only will those players (Pulisic, Adams, McKennie, Weah, Sargent, Dest, Cannon, Pomykal, etc) be in their primes as players, but they'll have subsequent generations contributing as well.

    The current crop of youngsters is just a piece of the puzzle. There will be more.

    The system being implemented is a long-term system that is forcing our culture to change from one of bunker + counter = win to possess + attack = win. That's not easy. I'm really pretty shocked that we're actually trying it. Remember, this is what everyone that it's in the period where it isn't easy nobody wants it anymore. It's a petulant response.

    A half-developed US team in all likelihood will qualify for Qatar and have the opportunity to put themselves to the test. That test is only a mid-term with the final exam being in 2026...that's when we're going to try to WIN a world cup. I think that's what the goal is. That's what we're building toward.
  5. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    i am not going knock lima because he had more grit on that goal than most of the team all night. if the idea is we are going to out pretty the next team you better go find me another XI that has those pretty players because i ain't seeing it yet. otherwise, bring your hard hat, and i've seen maybe 2 guys doing that, neither of whom are that great a soccer player, but both of whom grasp what the level involves.\

    you cannot be soft but then only kind of technical. that's pretty much the worst of both worlds, is convincing yourself you can knock it about (but you really can't) as a justification for not getting your nails dirty.
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  6. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Not sure what you mean by early days. Anyhoo, Uruguay were bad in the 90s and that's when we played most of the friendlies with them.
  7. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    no, we're not. we are trying to ride the tail end of the 2018 team that didn't qualify. it may work at a "we qualify then get creamed" level since the region is reshuffling as other teams got old too. but you are squeezing the sargents and pomykals to the bench to do that. you hand away part of that 2026 generation to stay older for 2022. increase the zardes jozy bradley window further onward into their 30s at the expense of the ones closer to 20. pomykal is exactly right.

    i would rather hand that expanded window to the kids. they are not falling off in front of my eyes.

    and don't even pretend that the A team game i just watched is a youth movement. like bruce arena his general idea of young is 24. he wants proven finished club players. he neglects that the top talent on this team, almost without fail, is under 25. pulisic, mckennie, adams, on and on.

    i think you're asking me to play along with what is in fact the slow walking of the youth movement, by trying to tell me that it's already happening. is that why sargent gets cut and then played with the b or c team when he gets a chance? is that why weah still hasn't played this year? is that why i am watching guzan give up near post goals or spill easy shots? is that why zardes is still out there without a goal since the first game of GC? i could go down a long list. really? really?
  8. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    national stadia? really? why don't we just xerox everything england does.

    people do realize the UK is like a part-day's train or drive across at its widest. and even they farm out a percentage of their home games outside wembley.
    gogorath repped this.
  9. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I’ll be honest, maybe it was a combination of losing to Mexico 3-0, Berhalter’s cluelessness, the USSF incompetence, and just being really tired from work. I could not focus at all on the game last night. I’d like to say I’d have some good input, but I was half awake the whole game.
    SteelyTom and nbarbour repped this.
  10. Black Tide

    Black Tide Member+

    Mar 8, 2007
    the 8th Dimension
    This an honest question as I have rarely watched Uruguay play. Do they normally play like that? Because they seem, I don't know, disinterested. (if that is the correct word) It just seemed like it was a training field kick around for most of the game for them. At which point they figured might as well win this thing, scored a goal, and then went back to a kick around. And if not for a flukey deflection would have ended 1-0
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  11. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    The Dutch, like any European club team, understand stockpiling. We always assume any American signed there is right into the lineup. They buy three others like you and give time to the one the coaches like. "Close eye" probably overstates it. As we should, they would cap him AND THEN figure out what they have.
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  12. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    We have had players (albeit not in the numbers we have now) in Europe and playing roles in Europe and MLS (even under 25). The big differences now are the roles that some are playing and the age that they are beginning their pro careers. In the past we had guys like Harkes, Cherundolo, Reyna, Murray, Boca, Beasely, Kirovski, and many others but very few went over at an age that could be considered young by our standards now (Donovan, KIrovski, JOB were a few notable exceptions). In fact, many of those players didn't just wait until after college but after they had been playing on the national team....some of whom didn't go over until after they had played in a world cup! Think about that for a minute!

    Think about the contrast to now for a minute. Guys who have never played in a professional team....unless you consider playing for the national team a professional team, went over to play in Europe only after they had actually played in a world cup. Let that sink in. Things are completely different now. They are also completely different from a few years ago when we had virtually no focused development program (any development came pretty much by accident). It is perfectly legitimate to say that, based upon the current status of the youth development programs in the US, we can expect a drastic improvement.
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  13. Casper

    Casper Member+

    Mar 30, 2001
    New York
    Couldn't Jesse Gonzalez have played one of these games? Part of one of these games? Does he still have zero saves for the US?
  14. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You wonder. I still haven't seen a full-strength USA team but, would it matter with this coach?
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  15. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    to be fair we looked dog tired at the end ourselves

    part of it might be friendly part might be second game of the pair

    part of it, though is simply "come to me"

    when you came to them, they tackled the crap out of you

    what we need was more pure speed or pomykal style taking them on

    where they have to keep up with someone and not just wait us out

    there is a reason morris looked good in that matchup

    then it's not just tackling someone hard who is waiting for a slow and predictable pass
  16. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006

    i am amazed we haven't done it as a reward for the switch as an incentive to the next people ie "we will use people who switch" a la boyd

    i am also amazed that a team without a second keeper who plays consistently well and doesn't make gaffes seems fairly content and conservative in selection and then use
  17. Caulfield

    Caulfield Member

    May 31, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I completely disagree, and think we are nowhere near our 2002-2014 talent level. I believe we are in big trouble from a talent standpoint.
  18. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    if you pick hard hat players what do you expect
  19. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    #94 juvechelsea, Sep 11, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
    i think we gave up the gritty approach that used to make us very competitive in that time period, accompanied by enough skill to get the job done many nights

    and then if you take the pretty soccer branch at the fork you better have prettier soccer players than this

    we go from the best grit team in the region to the third best skill team

    i think we have some attacking soccer players but you would need to commit to them in bulk

    i am not sure those attackers would be pretty so much as dangerous

    and i think the distinction between danger and pretty is a stumbling block for some people

    ie they don't know what to do with wood morris weah holmes gall lletget some of those who could help

    if you rely on speed or have some grit still showing some people get foolishly upset

    one thing to be worked out with berhalter and beyond is the lesson we should already grasp that you can be overwhelming in the attack and not have to become barca to do it

    or pretend you are barca when you're not, when you haven't been training kids to be one touch geniuses since age 5

    right now you are seeing a team trying to play touch ball and either looking incompetent for lack of skill under pressure (Mexico) or punchless for lack of surprise, technique, and danger (Uruguay)

    uruguay was willing to back off in which case our glacial and predictable passing surprises no one, and i think pomykal is the one person i saw try and dribble at them in 90'

    and if you noticed that freaked them out because they were used to just slide tackling someone who received a slow pass everyone in the stadium saw coming

    the other player they had trouble with was morris, just pure speed and then he would hit some fairly accurate crosses in, not just whack the ball to no one
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  20. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    I'm more along the lines of: many of the feds in the world are dysfunctional and/or corrupt in the world and still produce quality national teams if the player pool is sufficient. I happen to believe the youth player pool is the best its been in twenty years and will eventually overcome the incompetence of the fed and coaching staff to some degree. They may not achieve their potential because of the clown car running the show, but they should be good, and one of the better era's of the USMNT circa 2022-2030 at bare minimum compared to 1990-2018, and 2011-2018 in particular.

    I admit that it is difficult to feel that way at times when we can't even get half of the 23 or XI right, and we never get the subs right. I am dispirited, but I do believe things will turn bit by bit over the next 2-4 years simply because the talent bubbling up will force change, at least to a degree.
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  21. UncagedGorilla

    Sep 22, 2009
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa
    This is a big point that is being dismissed by way too many posters and media members. The aim of the USSF is to make soccer the preeminent sport in the United States. I think they need to ask themselves if making money, enriching their friends, and participating in abhorrent levels of nepotism is more effective than winning soccer games?

    People act like all federations are set up to make money. This is simply not true. Most European federations, while obviously having some level of corruption, put a huge focus on the success of their senior national teams. Those federations live and die by how well their NT's are doing. Why is France pouring money into their women's team and league right now? They want their women to do better! We used to do that as well so there was more impetus to do things like not play Panama in Orlando or Costa Rica in NYC. It's not hard to pull up census data and maybe play Panama in Portland or Caribbean nations not in the SE of the country. But we do the exact opposite. Why? The USSF decided that they didn't want to live and die by the national team so they started running it like a for-profit business. SUM is a huge problem, especially when they make deals with other federations. Personally, I think USSF should have their non-profit status investigated because outsourcing profit does not make you non-profit. It is a shell game at this point and because our leadership comes from Goldman Sachs, they are quite good at rigging the system in their favor.

    As @juvechelsea said, the youth resurgence has everything to do with clubs, not the national federation. When they were in charge and we had Bradenton, that led directly to the lost generation. So thank you FC Dallas, NYRB, RSL, SKC, Seattle, and a few others for showing the path to running a successful academy. The job of the USSF should be to assist those efforts and make inroads to underserved areas and communities. There is a huge hole in the SE of the country with Arkansas, Louisiana, Tennessee, Mississippi, Kentucky, and Alabama (home of several YNT players thanks to Texas clubs) having zero DA programs. Not to mention the issues reaching the Latino community. The USSF should be working to fill in those gaps instead of hiring zero Latino scouts and selling overpriced tickets to fans of our opponents.
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  22. chrisdon72

    chrisdon72 Member

    Feb 23, 2000
    Our top end talent will be better by the end of the cycle but we are getting killed in the depth department now. We just can't afford to send home 6 players before a match and expect a positive result against a major soccer nation.
    SteelyTom and gogorath repped this.
  23. FC Tallavana

    FC Tallavana Member+

    Jul 1, 2004
    La Quinta
    That a game against Uruguay only has four pages in the post-game thread the next day says a lot about the state of the USMNT. I watched on tv and was embarrassed that it is 2019 and we are playing in half-empty baseball stadiums on turf like that. Pretty much everything about the game was a joke, from the coach to the tactics to the location to the post-game thread. I never understood why Europeans cared more about their clubs than their national teams until now.
    Namdynamo, UniversalAdvice, russ and 3 others repped this.
  24. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That is because Michael Bradly did not play, so we have nothing to argue about :whistling:

  25. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think we got the ponies we just need a better rider.

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