Portland funding gap more like $26 million (not an April Fools thread)

This is actually an argument FOR a new Beavers stadium. As you sounder fans know well, it is problematic when a stadium's capacity is too big for the resident team's typical draw. When there is too much capacity, it becomes hard to sell season tickets (unless you artificially limit attendance). But even still, PGE Park is bad for baseball. The stands aren't even diamond shaped, more 'L' shaped, where the long section of stands runs almost parallel to the first base line. (more appropriate for square field games for this same reason).

So if the city wants the Beavers, they had better put them in a good stadium or Paulson might do better shipping them out of town.

 

god that website is a bore. who gives a flying ******** about memorial coliseum. it old, decrepit, and hideous. the place is absolutely falling apart and would take a TON of money to repair. the only reason i have EVER gone to MC is to see a concert, which was a terrible venue. the place is so dirty (the glass facade around the building is barely kept up) and old it just needs to be put out of its misery. it reminds me of the old salt palace the utah jazz used to play in. then they built the delta center which was amazing. the old salt palace became worthless and people tried to keep it around, but it was finally bulldozed a couple years later and a brand new beautiful convention center was built in its place. the writer of the article calls for sustainability, but MC is completely unsustainable. it is incredibly energy inefficient and costs a TON to maintain while making little if any money. its time to let it go and move on. let the past be the past and stop trying to live in it.

and yes, i have paid to go to beavers games at PGE many many times in the last couple years (helllloooo, thirsty thursdays anybody?)

 

The Beavers should be profitable. Of course, their attendance has fallen off since 2005 but PCL teams have a relatively low threshold for making money (at about 4,000 per game something like 300,000 people went to Beavers games last year in Portland). The PCL team is what Paulson was looking for when his ownership group originally bought both teams (look at the name of the ownership group!).

The Timbers started making money because despite continuing austerity in things like player payroll, their attendance rose from their '06 low in '07 and again in '08.

 

When the task force was on, the city's consultant basically said that everyone in AAA lies about their attendance.

I'm not sure the Beavers are selling enough tickets to meet the threshhold at PGE. They have half a chance better at MC or nearby.

An aside- we're even into discussing the contract as sole source, it became a news item. I don't recall ANY stadium effort getting this much scrutiny... which means Portland is a pretty smart town.

 

[editorial]
I agree. Portland is good at transparent process, representing all it's citizens, and not being taken advantage of ... which is why Paulson is having such a hard time ramrodding this through. Even the Blazers have gotten the palm from the city government in the past. Adams and Leonard seem to be behaving in a very un-Portland manner (which may be a breath of fresh air for some long-time Portlanders and Timbers partisans) by attempting to fast-track these deals. I think there is going to be more backlash because of that. Particularly against Adams, who is likely to face a recall vote after recent revelations.
[/editorial]

 

If the proponents of a recall get enough signatures to put it on the ballot, they'll probably end up wishing they hadn't. When it comes down to it, I think the vast majority of Portlanders will rally around Adams rather than give social conservatives a huge victory. Most of the support for a recall seems to be coming from the suburbs, not surprisingly.

 

Personally, I don't think he did anything wrong sexually, even considering the age of the other guy. Love/lust is a beautiful thing. But there are also a lot of social liberals who are unhappy with him because he has now lied twice to the public for political gain. That compounds any perceived shadiness that fast-tracking the stadium deals with the Paulsons stirs up. Even if he doesn't get recalled, the threat of it hanging over him weighs down the stadium deals. There are more city council votes coming up, and thus more public input.

IMHO, the best things that can happen to put the stadium deals over the top are: 1) Sam Adams resigns and Randy Leonard takes over, 2) they keep Memorial Coliseum and put the baseball stadium north of Broadway, 3) the Paulsons pony up more cash to fill the shortfall. With all that, there won't be any more political enemies. The only remaining issue would be selling the zero-coupon bonds. Hopefully the Paulsons have an inside track on potential buyers, or the market starts picking up soon.

 

Portland seems to be a troubled expansion idea from the stadium problem to ticket sales. pretty dissapointing how MLS jumped into it so quick, why the big RUSH ?


" Portland’s sales have not gone as swimmingly. The Timbers front office is reluctant to release up-to-date figures, but does say that as of March 24 only 1,500 deposits had been taken by Portland—a far cry from Vancouver’s brisk sales"

 

What's Google?

 

Is this a quote you pulled from somewhere?

1,500 MLS deposits plus the current season ticket base (ST's double as MLS deposits) is still great. You can compare it to Vancouver if you like, but try comparing that to the other MLS teams.

 

http://www.wweek.com/editorial/3522/12407/

A couple things. This article says that April 22nd is the date for the City Council to approve the pre-development agreement, not April 15th as was stated in the earlier Portland Tribune article.

This article is yet another that calls into question the need to build a baseball stadium. We know that MLS won't like the Beavers sharing PGE Park long-term, but I think there are a lot of Portlanders who think it is wasteful to build another stadium when the two teams have been sharing PGE Park since 2001, with the Timbers actually making some money in this arrangement. Add on the demolition of Memorial Coliseum, which is only to accommodate the baseball stadium, and the fast-tracking of the Rose Quarter designs, and I have a feeling this all won't fly.

I doubt Nick Fish is going to vote yes on April 22nd, based on his above quote. I also doubt Amanda Fritz has seen anything more that will change her mind. Dan Saltzman was the swing vote last time around. Is he still okay with how everything is turning out?

 

nick fish will always be a no, same with fritz (stupid bitch, who cares if you were born in england and like soccer). saltzman is the one person to be worried about and the one person that needs to be appeased in this whole process.

fish is an idiot, "a gun to our head", oh ya you idiot, what gun is that exactly? you are under no pressure since you have made it abundantly clear your vote is no. fish' only agenda in this whole process is to look good in the media and to the people of portland so he can get re-elected. both the blazers and paulson want memorial to be demolished for entertainment purposes, they are working together to now accommodate the baseball stadium, its ********tards like nick fish that want to delay this thing over and over until it doesnt get done. if the process was allowed to continue efficiently like it has over the last month then there would be no problems, but you get politicians like nick fish in there and it throws a monkey wrench in the whole thing. what an asshole.

 

I don't think Nick Fish is wrong to worry about the new wrinkle with the Rose Quarter designs. Developing that area is a big deal and not something to rush into. When you consider that this is all about building a minor league baseball stadium, and demolishing a historic building dedicated as a veteran's memorial ... it does cause one to go "hey ... hold on a second, here!" Portland has to consider the true costs and benefits, and also consider how this sets them up for the future.

Personally, I think they can solve this by putting the stadium north of Broadway and keeping Memorial Coliseum as it is for now. That site is big enough to build a stadium that could be expanded for MLB in the future. If the site north of Broadway will create a longer construction timeline, then MLS should be considerate enough to let the Beavers continue playing in PGE Park in 2011 along with the MLS Timbers, OR have the Timbers come into MLS a year later. Both would be perfectly acceptable compromises. There really isn't a need to rush this, unless the Paulsons know something we don't know.

And there aren't any other expansion candidates who can trump Portland right now. We found out that although Collinsville has been ready and willing for MLS, it wasn't juicy enough to attract investors. Saputo has alienated himself. Blank and Wilpon aren't going to pull something out of their ass by 2011 or 2012. Ottawa will get CFL over MLS. So the Portland city council should tell Paulson and MLS, "Hey guys, can we do this the right way so that you get what you want, but you don't mess up city planning in the process? We can make this work for everybody."

 

i dont understand where you are getting this "north of broadway" site. north of broadway is all neighborhoods or currently used industrial sites. there really is nothing north of broadway that is vacant to either be developed or demolished and then developed.

memorial coliseum currently exists for two reasons: first is the sentimental value, which costs the city of portland a lot of money to maintain while bringing in very little in terms of actual value. its an older generations way to say hey, i remember seeing the blazers play there back in the day. in reality those older generations havent set foot in memorial coliseum for close to 15 years since the only things held there are concerts and winterhawks. second is those concerts and winterhawks, which could easily be accommodated in the rose garden (in fact most concerts are held in the rose garden or smaller venues across the city). this is the only source of revenue for memorial coliseum and its weak at best, considering the winterhawks draw worse attendance than both the timbers and beavers.

its time to put down the memorial coliseum, its had its day.

 

Move Portland

 

I've seen a few articles mention it. Here is one that refers to that site:

http://chatterbox.typepad.com/portlandarchitecture/2009/04/save-memorial-coliseum.html

Remember, issue #1 is that PGE Park needs to be renovated so that an MLS team is profitable there. Issue #2 is figuring out what to do with the Beavers. Memorial Coliseum is an innocent bystander, so no need to conflate demolishing it with the desire to have the Timbers move up.

 

Here is another article that talks about the alternative site for the baseball stadium:

http://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/index.ssf/2009/03/reviving_the_rose_quarter.html

 

i just wish MLS knew this before it made it made its decision, my point still stands ........WHY THE RUSH !!!!!!!!!!!! i am very suspicious of intensions here

 

hmmm, i guess they could demolish that public schools building and put it there, that place is huge. i guess one worry i would have is that you would hear a ridiculous outcry from the public going something like this:

why are they demolishing a public schools building for a baseball stadium? why are they taking away from public schools, why are my tax dollars going to remove MORE public school resources, blah blah blah. that could be a really messy situation, anytime public schools and their money/land/resources/etc are involved there is going to be a major outcry from the public.

 

Allow me also suggest that a minor league baseball team can typically afford to suspend operations for a year until its new digs get built, probably a lot better than the expansion process for MLS could be slowed down. I haven't seen a reason yet to impede the MLS expansion process over baseball.

 

Oh yeah, I totally get that they'd want to roll in with the stadium all done. The thing is, the public and therefore the city council has to balance MLS and Paulson's needs with the needs for the city, whatever they are deemed to be. There seems to be a constituency in favor of keeping Memorial Coliseum. And I think there are valid arguments in favor of re-using the structure for a lot of different things. Since there are other scenarios where Memorial stays and the baseball stadium still gets built, those should be examined without rushing into plans for demolition. I would imagine that Fish and Fritz are in this court. I am curious where Saltzman stands.

MLS and Paulson could also consider holding off until 2012, and making sure Portland gets the best of everything: PGE Park for MLS Timbers, baseball stadium that could be expanded for MLB (Portland Athletics versus Seattle Mariners?), and Memorial Coliseum preserved and re-furbished for new daytime uses. The Timbers aren't losing money right now, so it's not like they can't hold out one extra year in the USL without Vancouver. And it might be good to come in a year later so you don't have to share the expansion draft with Vancouver.

 

I agree. That happened in Seattle when they closed a few schools. I think it's a sad sign that schools are being closed. The thing I got from the mentions in the news of this site is that it is bigger than it needs to be and not an efficient use of space, with the implication that moving its operations to a smaller site would be better for the school district.

 

It's not that easy, since there have to be exactly 30 AAA teams. It would require coordination with two other cities, one that would gain a team when Portland withdraws, and one that would lose a team when Portland comes back. Either that or they would have to find somewhere to host the franchise for one year only.