Portland funding gap more like $26 million (not an April Fools thread)

Hate to break it to you, but most of MLS's target market wasn't even born during NASL's heyday, or, if they were born, they either didn't live in this area, or they were too young to really remember anything about a Portland-Seattle-Vancouver rivalry. Portland not being in the mix is not going to hurt the Sounders or the league anymore than Portland not having a MLB or NFL team hurts the Mariners or Seahawks.

Fans travelling to other games is something that Vancouver alone would satisfy for most Seattle fans and really isn't something that Portland brings to the table. It's also not something that the league necessarily needs in order to grow. The only fans that really travel are the hard core fans and most of those will go to a Sounders game with or without a Portland team.

The popularity of soccer in the PNW is also something that both the Sounders and Vancouver tap and yet again, isn't something new that Portland brings to the table.

Made up rivalries seem to have worked fairly well for Columbus and Toronto. Those guys really don't like each other.

What gives you the impression that MLS gives a crap about USL or whether or not a USL team in Portland survives if it weren't to promote the Timbers? Seriously, they are competing organizations and their owners do not like each other. If the Timbers didn't make it into MLS and went tits up shortly after Vancouver joined MLS, MLS would still be interested in the market if there was an ownership group interested in paying the $40 million franchise fee.

That rivalry between the Vancouver Grizzlies and Seattle Sonics really worked well for the NBA, didn't it? Heh. There will be a rivalry between the Sounders and Whitecaps, it just won't be nearly as big as the rivalry between the Sounders and Timbers. Americans aren't concerned in the least about Canadians and don't consider them to be rivals in any shape or form. Thanks to the wonders of television and Canada's cheap production costs, in most Seattleites eyes (and Americans for that matter), Vancouver is just Seattle North. Granted, Canadians have a lot of issues with Americans, but it isn't a two way street.

 

I'm thinking the exact opposite actually. Portland and Seattle have been competitors pretty much since the day someone planted a stake in the ground and said "I name this area [Portland/Seattle]". They've been direct economic competitors in terms of shipping from importing/exporting from/into the US to/from the Pacific, which is something neither city has had with Vancouver. The only place that Vancouver and Seattle/Portland compete is for the tourism dollar.

 

I'll give you the first point regarding the NASL but you still missing the point. MLS understands the 3 way rivalry the 3 cities have and realizes that'll be good for them. MLS considers PNW as a gold mine that Seattle opened up.

There wasn't much of a rivalry between the sonics and Grizzles (NBA just didn't work out well in vancouver)

Not saying Van-sea will be bigger than Sea-port. The rivalry between Van and Sea will grow into a bigger rival between themselves. Sea-port has always been big rivals (Sonics-Blazers)

 

I hate to do this to a fellow Sounders backer, but I'd sure like to see some sources for some of the comments you made here.

What is the MLS' "target market?" How is it that someone like myself, age 42 and with disposable income, but old enough to recall the NASL days, is not of interest to them?

What is the reason for the MLS interest in Portland if it is not the willing investment of the USL Timbers' owner? Has the league ever expressed any interest in Portland before? What makes you think it would otherwise?

In what sports, other than soccer, are Seattle-Portland rivalries long and heated? It seems to me that, using your example of the NBA, that Seattle fans considered LA their rival and really weren't that concerned with Portland one way or another. The proof can be found in how many Sonics fans have jumped aboard the TrailBlazers' bandwagon now that the Sonics are gone.

Honestly, I think you are just making a lot of this stuff up.

Finally, I should say that this thread is about Portland's stadium, not about what team would make the best rivalry for Seattle. Perhaps we ought to move this stuff to a separate thread in the Seattle folder?

 

I'm talking strictly soccer. Portland fans hate Seattle, but that doesn't make a competitive rivalry. Seattle and Vancouver have more games against each other than any other pair of teams in US-Canadian soccer. They have also traditionally been dominant in their leagues, often meeting deep into the playoffs. It's not the same with Portland. The rivalry with Portland is of a different type, mainly based on the current generation of USL fans beginning in 2004.

 

the rivalry between seattle and vancouver is SO strong. that's why all the seattle fans are over in their forum posting every ten seconds. oh, wait.

 

This thread existed in News & Analysis for 2 months, and was moved to the Portland forum last week.

I've been through this same argument with Eckstoss/Fenerbace last year. Seattle-Vancouver is the more competitive sporting rivalry. 81 games in the ASPL/USL alone, not counting NASL games. Meeting in the playoffs almost every year. Both of the current front offices have strong ties to the NASL iterations. This has nothing to do with knocking Portland or the fan rivalries.

 

man i had no idea, so this thread wasn't about portland all that time as well?? and the last 3 pages isn't almost entirely sounders posters??

man i was so wrong, you really got me bright. i will politely bow out of this thread and let you sounders fans keep talking about portland.

but it's us who are obsessed with you. not a two way thing at all. just so we're clear.

 

Who cares where the posters are from or who they cheer for? We were talking about the stadium situation.

 

bright you just on the last page made two post about rivalries. but alas, i won't continue with this argument because i don't want to get the dreaded email from couverite telling me what i had for lunch everyday in the 3rd grade.

 

Yes, I did. In response to what Yoshou said about the rivalries. Who cares. Let's get back to the stadium issue. We probably won't hear anything new until Monday.

 

Scott, the MLS's target market is the same as all entertainment companies 18-34 year olds. And since this form of entertainment is sports, it is 18-34 year old males. There is a reason why 18-34 year olds are called the money demographic. They have, by far, the most disposable income that is available to be spent on "trivial" things such as sports. This is pretty much marketing 101. I'm sure you've been in the supporter section, by far the largest faction of them are in the 18-34 year old range. There are going to be people, such as yourself, that are outside that range, but the vast majority of the money coming into MLS is from that 18-34 year old range. But don't take my word for it.. Take MLS's here.

MLS is interested in the Portland market, it doesn't care who throws the money at it. It just happens to be Paulsen this time, but MLS has been interested in Portland prior to Paulson's purchase of the Timbers. Before Paulson, it was Michael and James Keston. Nothing came of their attempt, obviously, but it is prior interest and it predates the Sounders. Newspapers and sports analysts have been linking MLS and Portland for ages.

I take it you don't follow basketball then? Perhaps you missed the part where the Sonics left Seattle, leaving Seattle basketball fans without a local NBA team? If a person is a fan of NBA basketball the only place they have to go in the PNW is the Trailblazers. Of course they are going to become Trailblazer fans. If/when Seattle gets another NBA franchise, those fans are going to jump back on that bandwagon and hating the Trailblazers.

Or perhaps you missed the part where the Sonics and their ownership groups pretty much took a giant dump on the Seattle basketball fan for the last several years of their existence. Or the reaction to Mr. Sonic (Nate McMillan) left the Sonics and became Portland's Head Coach? Or perhaps the entire freaking 1990s.

As far as LA.. The Lakers are the best team in basketball, everyone is a rival of the Lakers. That's like making a big deal about the Mariner's being rivals of the Yankees. Everyone wants to beat the best and most storied franchise and, in basketball, that's the Lakers.

Welcome to BigSoccer, where discussion threads go to get hijacked.

 

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2009/06/portland_parks_bureau_lays_out.html

 

The target market may be 18-34 year old males, but, it would be interesting to see what the average age of an MLS season ticket holder is. Looking at the sold out sections for the Quakes games, especially the higher priced seats, it appears to me that a large portion of them are occupied by the over 34 crowd. The younger supporters tend to occupy the cheaper seats.

 

Each comment was made by two different commissioners.

 

http://blogtown.portlandmercury.com...m-budget-affordable-housing-vs-small-business

 

Letters to The Oregonian. 4 out of 5 opposed to the Lents Park site.

http://blog.oregonlive.com/myoregon/2009/06/letters_to_the_editor_lents_pa.html