http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A32521-2003Oct15.html OK, the methodology wasn't the greatest in the world, but if you read the article, it's obvious that we doves should bookmark it, because it's gonna end alot of the arguments we have around here. It's not that it paints an unexpected negative picture. It's just that it puts the lie to all of the "it's better than the media is reporting" bulls*** we hear from Boston College students.
I do think the article points out one real concern but it doesn't matter how the survey went on it. It's the views of the reservists. They signed up for limited duty. They are not long term solders. They shouldn't be expected to do the tours they've been asked to do.
Are you under the impression that US soldiers, politicians and people in all previous wars (except Vietnam of course) were 100% gung ho about it? The civil war (or what i like to call the War of Secession) was one of the most important wars in our history,yet the morale of Union boys was awful. They demanded that the draft be killed;most didn't know what the war was all about. Peace Democrats in Washington slurred Lincoln's name much like the Bush Basher's. Take Clement Vallandigham, a Democrat who ran for governorship of Ohio. He called upon soldiers to desert, and declared the South invincible. he also said "You have not conquered the South. You never will. War for the Union was abandoned;war for the negro openly begun and with stronger batallions than before. With what success? Let the dead at Fredricksburg answer." You see, the politcs of war have been raging since war itself first took place. I do not think that these momentary setbacks will impact the mission at all. The democrats can go on saying the war was a "fraud." These quotes will one day adorn the textbooks, and people will look back and shake their heads.
TheStars and Stripes article istelf seems to reinforce the reservist and National Guard problems: "Among the largest group surveyed, Army troops, the results looked much like a bell curve. Twenty-seven percent said their personal morale was “high” or “very high.” Thirty-three percent said it was “low” or “very low.” The largest percentage fell in the middle, saying it was “average.” Among the second largest group, reservists and National Guard members, the differences were much starker. Only 15 percent said their own morale was “high” or “very high,” while 48 percent said it was “low” or “very low.” Among Marines, the next largest group, 44 percent said their morale was “high” or “very high,” and only 14 percent said it was “low” or “very low.” Among airmen, the smallest of the four major groups surveyed because fewer questionnaires were allowed to be circulated to them, the results were also very positive. Thirty-nine percent said their morale was “high” or “very high,” and only 6 percent said it was “low” or “very low.” Very few Navy servicemembers could be found to question in Iraq. The questionnaire findings can’t be projected to all the servicemembers in Iraq." Well, if the survey has a 95% confidence level, even though it's obvious it doesn't, then the picture still isn't that bad. The Marines and Air Force morale are both skewed towards high or very high. The Army is slighty skewed negatively in comparison with high and low, but still 67% rated their morale as average to very high, not exactly horrible. The only real troubling areas are the National Guardsmen and reservists, which isn't surprising considering what they signed up for as oppossed to what are being told to do now (occupy a country for an extended period of time). Actually, the rest of the Stars and Stripes series should be an interesting read as opposed to a means of advancing one agenda or the other. Also, are we judging conditions in Iraq based only on the troops? Whenever I hear someone mention that things are better than being reported usually link to articles that deal with the Iraqi reconstruction such as this and this (both admittedly not without bias ).
This isn't really surprising--Marine Corps units usually have far fewer morale problems than do Army units. And it's also natural that the National Guardsmen would have much lower morale than the regulars would since, if they weren't in Iraq, they'd be sitting at home with their families working their 9-5 jobs, whereas the regular troops would still be on a base somewhere. And no, Dave, it's not a straw man, it's a perfectly valid point.
So to you, writing is not a straw man argument? There's really nothing to add, except here's your order of pizza with extra wrong sauce.
It proves that just because "morale is low"*, doesn't mean the war is unwinnable or unjust. *(which isn't even really the case aside from the National Guardsmen--the split for the Army regulars is about 50-50 and the Marines and Air Force personnel had a lot more respondents with "high" or "very high" morale than with "low" or "very low"; in addition, if you look at one of the tables in the original Stars and Stripes article, you find that while 40% of respondents said that what they are doing now is "not close" to their training or has "nothing to do with training", 58% said that it was "identical", "very close", or "close" to their training) Pizza, now that's a damn good idea.
I'd like to think that the self-proclaimed best military in the world would see something like 90% or more stating that their training was "identical", "very close", or "close."
more so than some babblefest about the civil war - i believe the thread title says 'poll of soldiers in iraq' - exactly where do you think iraq is? kentucky? when you have no point and you go on and on about some irrelevant bag of goo and then you continue with this: 'Why won't you talk about the huge rift in the north during the war? Or did that never happen?'... now THAT is going off topic seems anything that you don't wanna hear about is bull*#*#*#*#*# and anything that you think proves worth for bush, the war, etc. is god's word - try this: cover your ears and hum mary had a little lamb really loud... ready?... THE TROOPS ARE STARTING, IF NOT CONTINUING, TO THINK THIS WHOLE OPERATION IS GARBAGE!!! NO, REALLY!!!
Wrong again Cedric. Those are the national guardsmen who would be at home right now watching the yankees game if it weren't for the war. The morale of the military is only affected by twits like you who swear the sky is falling.
1-really now? i must be very influential... more so than lying superiors, bad equipment, scorching temperatures and RPG's 2-show me where i said this
True, but a number of liberals on here (can't remember if you specifically did or not to be fair) were claiming credit for the "Clinton military"'s successes in Afghanistan and Iraq--can't have it both ways.