PK's drawn

Discussion in 'Statistics and Analysis' started by ChrisE, Nov 2, 2003.

  1. ChrisE

    ChrisE Member

    Jul 1, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa
    Although MLS does not, unfortunately, give us this stat, I think, with a little work, a list can be compiled. Most of it can be done pretty easily because almost every goal scored is archived by mlsnet; unfortunately, missed penalties remain a problem, because they're not at all easy to search for, so I'm going to need a little help compiling a list.

    I've begun by compiling who drew the pk's of the three teams that didn't miss any kicks, but that's a pretty small percentage. Here they are, in the form [date, scored by, drawn by]:

    Columbus
    5/10 - Cunningham - Cunningham
    5/17 - McBride - (Mcbride or Paule)
    10/19 - Mcbride - West

    D.C. United
    5/17 - Etcheverry - Stewart
    6/7 - Etcheverry - hand ball, Orlando Perez
    7/5 - Etcheverry - Curtis
    7/27 - Quintanilla - Etcheverry
    8/16 - Stoitchkov - Stoitchkov
    9/28 - Etcheverry - Convey
    10/4 - Etcheverry - Etcheverry
    10/19 - Stoitchkov - Stoitchkov

    San Jose
    4/26 - Donovan - Ching
    7/26 - Agoos - Walker

    I'll eventually finish the list, but if anyone can remember any missed PK's, it would make the job a lot easier. Here's the list of the other 7 teams' PK's made/PK's converted:

    Chicago 7/9
    Metrostars 4/7
    New England 2/3
    Colorado 5/6
    Dallas 4/6
    Kansas City 5/6
    Los Angeles 7/8

    and I've already got these three:
    10/11 Mandi Urbas
    10/11 John Wolyniec
    10/11 hand ball, Brian Dunseth
     
  2. beineke

    beineke New Member

    Sep 13, 2000
    I'm pretty sure MLS does publish a list of all PK's each season. It doesn't list the cause of the PK, but it lists the missed ones, too.
     
  3. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yep. Here they are:


    PENALTY KICK SUMMARY
    DATE TM OPP SHOOTER KEEPER RES MN
    04/13/2003 CHI 1 vs NE 1 Rodrigo Faria Adin Brown S 44
    04/19/2003 MET 1 vs LA 1 Jaime Moreno Kevin Hartman G 42
    04/26/2003 COL 1 vs DC 1 John Spencer Nick Rimando G 24
    04/26/2003 SJ 1 vs LA 0 Landon Donovan Kevin Hartman G 54
    05/03/2003 KC 2 vs CLB 2 Preki Jon Busch G 47+
    05/10/2003 CLB 2 vs COL 0 Jeff Cunningham Scott Vallow G 25
    05/17/2003 DC 1 vs KC 1 Marco Etcheverry Tony Meola G 31
    05/17/2003 CLB 3 at SJ 4 Brian McBride Pat Onstad G 38
    05/24/2003 DAL 1 at MET 2 Jason Kreis Tim Howard S 63
    05/25/2003 CHI 4 vs COL 0 Ante Razov Scott Garlick G 8
    05/25/2003 CHI 4 vs COL 0 Ante Razov Scott Garlick G 75
    05/31/2003 MET 1 at CLB 1 Clint Mathis Jon Busch G 64
    05/31/2003 DAL 3 vs DC 2 Ronald Cerritos Nick Rimando G 75
    06/07/2003 DC 2 vs CHI 0 Marco Etcheverry Zach Thornton G 37
    06/07/2003 LA 2 vs COL 0 Carlos Ruiz Scott Garlick G 91+
    06/14/2003 MET 2 vs CHI 3 Amado Guevara Zach Thornton G 94+
    06/14/2003 LA 2 vs KC 1 Carlos Ruiz Tony Meola G 73
    06/14/2003 KC 1 at LA 2 Preki Kevin Hartman S 97+
    06/18/2003 CHI 4 vs DAL 1 Ante Razov D.J. Countess G 21
    06/21/2003 KC 4 vs CHI 2 Preki Zach Thornton G 70
    06/21/2003 COL 1 at DAL 3 John Spencer D.J. Countess G 25
    06/28/2003 LA 3 vs DAL 0 Carlos Ruiz D.J. Countess G 63
    07/02/2003 DAL 1 vs DC 3 Jason Kreis Nick Rimando G 74
    07/04/2003 COL 3 vs KC 2 John Spencer Tony Meola G 44
    07/04/2003 LA 2 vs NE 2 Carlos Ruiz Adin Brown G 28
    07/05/2003 DC 2 vs MET 3 Marco Etcheverry Tim Howard G 10
    07/19/2003 CHI 3 vs NE 1 Damani Ralph Matt Reis G 51
    07/26/2003 SJ 3 vs DAL 0 Jeff Agoos D.J. Countess G 90
    07/27/2003 DC 4 at NE 2 Eliseo Quintanilla Matt Reis G 91+
    08/09/2003 LA 3 vs CLB 1 Carlos Ruiz Jon Busch G 68
    08/13/2003 CHI 2 at CLB 2 Ante Razov Jon Busch G 34
    08/16/2003 DC 1 at CHI 3 Hristo Stoitchkov Zach Thornton G 8
    08/16/2003 CHI 3 vs DC 1 Ante Razov Nick Rimando S 40
    08/16/2003 KC 2 at DAL 3 Preki D.J. Countess G 26
    08/16/2003 DAL 3 vs KC 2 Brad Davis Tony Meola G 54
    08/16/2003 COL 2 vs CLB 1 John Spencer Jon Busch G 57
    08/22/2003 KC 2 vs COL 2 Preki Scott Vallow G 93+
    08/23/2003 NE 1 at LA 2 Jose Cancela Kevin Hartman G 86
    08/30/2003 LA 2 vs DAL 1 Carlos Ruiz D.J. Countess G 50
    08/30/2003 LA 2 vs DAL 1 Carlos Ruiz D.J. Countess S 81
    09/06/2003 KC 1 vs MET 2 Preki Jonny Walker G 79
    09/06/2003 DAL 1 at COL 2 Brad Davis Scott Garlick G 24
    09/06/2003 COL 2 vs DAL 1 John Spencer D.J. Countess S 37
    09/18/2003 NE 0 vs COL 0 Taylor Twellman Scott Garlick S 68
    09/25/2003 MET 0 vs DC 2 Clint Mathis Nick Rimando S 36
    09/28/2003 DC 1 vs MET 1 Marco Etcheverry Jonny Walker G 64
    10/04/2003 DC 1 at CLB 1 Marco Etcheverry Jon Busch G 59
    10/04/2003 COL 2 at KC 4 Chris Henderson Tony Meola G 60
    10/11/2003 MET 0 vs DAL 0 Amado Guevara D.J. Countess S 2
    10/11/2003 MET 0 vs DAL 0 Clint Mathis D.J. Countess S 86
    10/11/2003 DAL 0 at MET 0 Edward Johnson Jonny Walker S 88
    10/11/2003 LA 1 at KC 2 Carlos Ruiz Tony Meola G 67
    10/11/2003 NE 1 vs DC 0 Steve Ralston Doug Warren G 92
    10/18/2003 CHI 4 vs COL 3 Ante Razov Scott Garlick G 11
    10/19/2003 DC 2 vs CLB 3 Hristo Stoitchkov Jon Busch G 37
    10/19/2003 CLB 3 at DC 2 Brian McBride Doug Warren G 90
    10/25/2003 MET 2 at NE 5 Mark Lisi Adin Brown G 58
    10/26/2003 CHI 2 at CLB 6 Jesse Marsch Jon Busch G 25


    Given that they list the minute as well, if you go back through gametracker, you may be able to more easily see who drew the PK.

    While you're at it, note the referee as well. MLS has, in its postseason media guide, a statistical summary of this year's refs, which lists their aggregate totals, but you might want to have who gave which teams PK's and in what situations, and for what (tackle in the box, handball, whatever).
     
  4. ChrisE

    ChrisE Member

    Jul 1, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa
    Beineke, Kenn, thanks for the help. Unfortunately, kenn, I've already finished the list, and I didn't see your post till now, so I don't have the referee stats. I'll do it eventually though, if you want.

    Here's how the numbers came out; I didn't give anybody credit for 'drawing' a handball, I only gave a player credit when he was fouled in the box.

    Pk's drawn
    Ruiz, Carlos 3
    Beasley, Damarcus 2
    Etcheverry, Marco 2
    Guevara, Amado 2
    Jones, Cobi 2
    Stoitchkov, Hristo 2
    Bagley, Chris 1
    Bolanos, Jonathan 1
    Ching, Brian 1
    Chung, Mark 1
    Clark, Ricardo 1
    Convey, Bobby 1
    Cunningham, Jeff 1
    Curtin, Jim 1
    Curtis, Ali 1
    Davis, Brad 1
    Digiamarino, Joey 1
    Gray, Kelly 1
    Jaqua, Nate 1
    Johnson, Eddie 1
    Kamler, Brian 1
    Kingsley, Zach 1
    Kreis, Jason 1
    Mcbride, Brian 1
    Moreno, Alejandro 1
    Pineda Chacon, Alex 1
    Preki 1
    Quill, Eric 1
    Ralph, Damani 1
    Regan, Tim 1
    Roberts, Zizi 1
    Serna, Diego 1
    Simutenkov, Igor 1
    Spencer, John 1
    Stewart, Earnie 1
    Twellman, Taylor 1
    Urbas, Mandi 1
    Vaca, Joselito 1
    Walker, Jamil 1
    West, Brian 1
    Wolff, Josh 1
    Wolyniec, John 1
    Zavagnin, Kerry 1

    And then there were eight handballs.

    I also made out a list of players who were responsible for PK's, whose value, in my opinion, is a lot more questionable than the first; nevertheless, I thought it was interesting; I attributed the penalty to either the guy who committed the foul in the box, or the guy who handballed:

    Pk's conceded
    borchers 3.5
    zotinca 2
    williams, mark 2
    whitfield 2
    suarez 2
    rimando 2
    prideaux 2
    kante 2
    hendrickson 2
    gutierrez 2
    gbandi 2
    dunseth 2
    clark, mike 2
    hart 1.5
    davis 1
    mccarty 1
    fraser 1
    waibel 1
    perez 1
    bartolomeu 1
    brown, c.j. 1
    leitch 1
    hejduk 1
    stewart, earnie 1
    garcia, nick 1
    maisonneuve 1
    thomas, shavar 1
    beckerman 1
    williams, richie 1
    mastroeni 1
    gomez, francisco 1
    franchino 1
    busch 1
    pierce 1
    califf 1
    heaps 1
    clark, ricardo 1
    lalas 1
    nelsen 1
    kovalenko 1
    behncke 1
    addo 1

    Mark Williams, I'm pretty sure, was by far the leader in PK's conceded per 90.

    If anyone (all four of you) wants to see the entire list of PK's, or anything else, I'd be happy to provide it.
     
  5. beineke

    beineke New Member

    Sep 13, 2000
    Great stuff, Chris ...

    Based on an informal tally, I came up with

    PK's drawn
    FORWARDS 24
    MIDFIELDERS 24
    DEFENDERS 2

    IIRC, I counted Stewart as a forward, Preki, Digi, and Gray as midfielders.

    To me, it stands out that Latin American players tend to draw more PK's than others ... in general, older players, smaller players, good goalscorers, and players with good dribbling skills seem to have an advantage.

    Players among the top 20 scorers who didn't draw a PK:
    Landon Donovan
    Ante Razov
    Pat Noonan
    Edson Buddle
    Mike Magee
     
  6. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Referees who doled out PK's (games in the middle in parentheses):


    Brian Hall...........6 (16)
    Michael Kennedy......6 (11)
    Abidoun Okulaja......6 (11)
    Alex Prus............6 (17)
    Terry Vaughn.........5 (15)
    Noel Kenny...........4 (10)
    Jair Marrufo.........4 (7)
    Kevin Stott..........4 (11)
    Marcel Yonan.........4 (5)
    Ali Saheli...........3 (8)
    Ricardo Salazar......3 (6)
    Kevin Terry..........3 (10)
    Jesse Johnson........1 (3)
    Erich Simmons........1 (1)
    Gus St.Silva.........1 (7)
    Ricardo Valenzuela...1 (7)
    Richard Heron........0 (3)
    Hector Tobon.........0 (2)
     
  7. Karl K

    Karl K Member

    Oct 25, 1999
    Suburban Chicago
    Great job.

    I am absolutely convinced, that if DaMarcus Beasley is healthy enough to play somewhere between 12 to 15 CONCACAF qualifiers over the upcoming cycle, then the odds of him drawing at least ONE PK are about as close to 100% as you can get.

    I think the odds of him drawing 2 PKs over that same number of games is probably around 35% to 40%.

    Also, I would not be surprised if the one or both of the PKs he inevitably creates wind up being a critically decisive factor in getting us very important points.
     
  8. voros

    voros Member

    Jun 7, 2002
    Parts Unknown
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    DaMarcus actually drew a third penalty, but he wound up knocking the ball into the net before the whistle blew.
     
  9. goal123

    goal123 New Member

    Jul 4, 2002
    Did anyone notice DJ Countess has blocked four PK's in a row?

    Ruiz, Spencer, Guevara, and Mathis!
     
  10. beineke

    beineke New Member

    Sep 13, 2000
    That's mighty impressive about Countess.

    I wanted to see how well Fouls Suffered predicts PK's Drawn, so I did a little bit of fooling with the numbers

    US forwards needed on average 67.2 fouls to draw a PK; other forwards needed 38.2.

    US midfielders needed 114.4 fouls to draw a PK; other midfielders needed 75.3.

    This isn't quite the end of the story, since the sample is small, and all 7 PK's earned by other positions (M/F, D/M, and defender) were earned by US players. That's not too surprising, though, because the great majority of players in those positions are from the US.

    I view this data as a preliminary indication that the players who draw a lot of fouls are not necessarily the ones who draw fouls where it counts. As lurking pointed out in another thread, we really need a statistic on fouls suffered in the attacking third.

    The data...
    US-born and raised players listed as forwards drew
    672 fouls
    10 PK's

    Other players listed as forwards drew
    497 fouls
    13 PK's

    I did the same thing for midfielders
    US-born and raised
    fouls 1144
    10 PK's

    Other
    fouls 753
    10 PK's
     
  11. beineke

    beineke New Member

    Sep 13, 2000
    Another thing I noticed is that a surprising number of players drew PK's without drawing many total fouls ... to wit:
    Mandi Urbas 1 foul
    Chris Bagley 1 foul
    Jonathan Bolanos 5 fouls
    Tim Regan 6 fouls
    Alex Pineda Chacon 8 fouls

    Then there's Hristo Stoitchkov who drew 2 PK's with only 27 total fouls ...
     
  12. ChrisE

    ChrisE Member

    Jul 1, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa
    Anyone who's interested, 2002 and 2001 were much easier. MLS's old PK lists were much more comprehensive, and listed who drew the foul. So, 2002:

    Code:
    [size=1]
    handball	6
    Diallo, Mamadou	4
    Simutenkov, Igor	4
    De Rosario, Dwayne	2
    Faria, Rodrigo	2
    Henderson, Chris	2
    Moreno, Jaime	2
    Ruiz, Carlos	2
    Armstrong, Stephen	1
    Chronopoulos, Ted	1
    Chung, Mark	1
    Curtis, Ali	1
    Donovan, Landon	1
    Glinton, Gavin	1
    Gray, Kelly	1
    Gutierrez, Diego	1
    Jones, Cobi	1
    Kreis, Jason	1
    Lewis, Darin	1
    Maisonneuve, Brian	1
    Marsch, Jesse	1
    Marshall, Tyrone	1
    Martino, Kyle	1
    McKinley, Ivan	1
    Olivares, Percy	1
    Oughton, Duncan	1
    Ralston, Steve	1
    Trembly, Seth	1
    Twellman, Taylor	1
    Williams, Andy	1
    Wolff, Josh	1
    
    [/size]

    2001:
    Code:
    [size=1]
    handball	14
    Diallo, Mamadou	4
    Jones, Cobi	3
    Beasley, DaMarcus	2
    Chronopoulos, Ted	2
    Torres, Johnny	2
    Alvarez, Leonel	1
    Brown, Chris	1
    Cate	1
    Chung, Mark	1
    Cienfuegos, Mauricio	1
    Cloutier, Braeden	1
    Convey, Bobby	1
    Cunningham, Jeff	1
    Donovan, Landon	1
    Elliott, Simon	1
    Gomez, Francisco	1
    Hendrickson, Ezra	1
    Mathis, Clint	1
    Okoh, Matt	1
    Pareja, Oscar	1
    Pineda Chacon, Alex	1
    Spencer, John	1
    Stoitchkov, Hristo	1
    Sunsing, William	1
    Vaca, Joselito	1
    Victorine, Sasha	1
    Whitfield, Evan	1
    
    [/size]

    The stuff beineke did was great, by the way.
     
  13. numerista

    numerista New Member

    Mar 21, 2004
    Has anyone been tracking PK's this year? Unless my memory has gone haywire, Ralston has already drawn three ... haven't seen the third, but the first two both looked like dives to me ... seems to back up the tendency of crafty, lightweight players to draw more spotkicks.
     
  14. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was sorta watching, and I thought Adrian Healy said that after Ralston drew that one yesterday. Sounds familiar.
     
  15. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've been doing some PK tracking, not individual players but the positions that are committing fouls and drawing fouls.

    I don't have data for 2003, but here's what I have for 2001, 2002, and 2004 to date:

    PK fouls committed:
    Center back / sweeper - 46
    Outside back - 21
    Defensive midfield - 13
    Central/attacking midfield - 12
    Goalkeeper - 11
    Outside midfield - 7
    Forward - 1

    PK fouls suffered:
    Forward - 41
    Outside midfield - 19
    Central/attacking midfield - 14
    Outside back - 7
    Defensive midfield - 4
    Center back / sweeper - 3
    Handball - 22

    Obviously teams play with different numbers of players in these position categories, but it's still an interesting set of statistics.
     
  16. ChrisE

    ChrisE Member

    Jul 1, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa
    Did you not notice the list I posted above? Maybe you just don't trust it, I don't know. I think, however, that this highlights the need for us to set up some system to share these kinds of statistics.
     
  17. ChrisE

    ChrisE Member

    Jul 1, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa
    I hadn't been, but it's really not a difficult thing to do. So, I did it and yes, Ralston's got 3 - which is pretty strange, considering that he hadn't drawn any in the last three years, so I'm not sure I'd lump him in with other serial PK-drawers.

    Here's the 2004 chart:

    Code:
    [size=1]
    
    		         shooter	  drawn	          caused
    4/3/2004	make	Ekelund, Ronnie	Mullan, Brian	Rimando, Nick
    4/3/2004	make	Rhine, Bobby	handball	Powell, Daryl (handball)
    4/24/2004	make	Ruiz, Carlos	Ngwenya, Joseph	Denton, Eric
    5/1/2004	make	Cancela, Jose	Ralston, Steve	Broome, Paul
    5/8/2004	make	Paule, Ross	Hejduk, Frankie	Prideaux, Brandon
    5/8/2004	make	Ekelund, Ronnie	Mulrooney, R	Clark, Ricardo
    5/8/2004	make	Guevara, Amado	Glen, Cornell	Agoos, Jeff
    5/23/2004	make	Cunningham, J	Cunningham, J	Curtin, Jim
    5/29/2004	miss	Twellman, T	Ralston, Steve	Stokes, David
    5/29/2004	make	Kirovski, Jovan	Ngwenya, Joseph	Gibbs, Cory
    6/6/2004	make	Cancela, Jose	Ralston, Steve	Hejduk, Frankie
    6/6/2004	miss	Cancela, Jose	Joseph, Shalrie	Marshall, Chad
    6/6/2004	make	Cunningham, J	Cunningham, J	John, Avery
    6/9/2004	make	Wolff, Josh	Wolff, Josh	Borchers, Nat
    6/12/2004	make	Razov, Ante	Mapp, Justin	Albright, Chris
    6/12/2004	make	Cunningham, J	Cunningham, J	Garcia, Nick
    
    
    [/size]
     
  18. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Didn't see the list. Now that I'm looking at it... how did Borchers and Hart split a foul?
     
  19. ChrisE

    ChrisE Member

    Jul 1, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa
    If I remember correctly, they sandwiched a guy.
     
  20. ChrisE

    ChrisE Member

    Jul 1, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa
    2004's numbers:

    Code:
    [u]Drawn[/u]
    
    handball		9
    Wolff, Josh		3
    Ralston, Steve		3
    Gaven, Eddie		3
    Cunningham, Jeff	3
    Ngwenya, Joseph		2
    Martino, Kyle		2
    Magee, Mike		2
    Wolyniec, John		1
    Williams, Andy		1
    Twellman, Taylor	1
    Rhine, Bobby		1
    Razov, Ante		1
    Ralph, Damani		1
    Peguero, Jean Philippe	1
    Oughton, Duncan		1
    Mulrooney, Richard	1
    Mullan, Brian		1
    Moreno, Jaime		1
    Mapp, Justin		1
    Kirovski, Jovan		1
    Joseph, Shalrie		1
    Hejduk, Frankie		1
    Gomez, Francisco	1
    Glen, Cornell		1
    Donovan, Landon		1
    Delgado, Alberto	1
    De Rosario, Dwayne	1
    Ching, Brian		1
    Arnaud, Davy		1
    
    
    Code:
    [u]Conceded[/u]
    
    Cannon, Joe		3
    Curtin, Jim		2
    Hejduk, Frankie		2
    Parke, Jeff		2
    Prideaux, Brandon	2
    Thomas, Shavar		2
    Agoos, Jeff		1
    Albright, Chris		1
    Aloisi, Chris		1
    Bonseu, Tenywa		1
    Borchers, Nat		1
    Broome, Paul		1
    Brown, C.J.		1
    Busch, Jon		1
    Clanton, Denny		1
    Clark, Ricardo		1
    Conrad, Jimmy		1
    Denton, Eric		1
    Franchino, Joe		1
    Fraser, Robin		1
    Garcia, Nick		1
    Gibbs, Cory		1
    Hart, Wes		1
    John, Avery		1
    Kotschau, Ritchie	1
    Leonard, Marshall	1
    Marshall, Chad		1
    Marshall, Tyrone	1
    Mastroeni, Pablo	1
    Oughton, Duncan		1
    Pause, Logan		1
    Petke, Mike		1
    Pope, Eddie		1
    Powell, Daryl		1
    Reis, Matt		1
    Reyes, Milton		1
    Rimando, Nick		1
    Ring, Henry		1
    Sanneh, Tony		1
    Stokes, David		1
    Torres, Arturo		1
    Waibel, Craig		1
    
     
  21. numerista

    numerista New Member

    Mar 21, 2004
    A sampling from PK's drawn ...
    A quick inspection shows that foreign-born players have a reduced presence in this list. In addition to goalscorers, the US seems to have some emerging attackers with the ability to wrong-foot a defender.

    Code:
    [u]GK PK's Conceded[/u]
    
    Cannon, Joe		3
    Busch, Jon		1
    Reis, Matt		1
    Rimando, Nick		1
    Ring, Henry		1
    Everyone else            0
    
    [/QUOTE]

    Not sure what to make of this ... Is Cannon too aggressive? Does Colorado play more offsides than other teams? Or is this perhaps a result of having a slow back line?

    Incidentally, there was no repeat of last year's phenomenon where guys who didn't play much drew a disproportionate number of PK's. This year, the players who drew fouls in the box also drew a lot of fouls in general.
     
  22. scaryice

    scaryice Member

    Jan 25, 2001
    Interesting thread. I know that for 1999-2002, the MLS League Leaders stat page shows who drew the penalty and who commited the foul.

    Also, does anyone have a list of penalties for 1996-1998? They don't have a nice list at mlsnet like the other years. I could just go through the stats and see who took penalties, but I want a nice list with dates, keepers, etc.
     
  23. scaryice

    scaryice Member

    Jan 25, 2001
    Hey, I wanted to bump this thread because it's a fascinating stat. It's really something that's not hard to keep track of, and you would think that it would be kept track of.

    I have gone back and figured this out for every MLS season. The only problem is 1996-98.

    1998: 37 of 58 missing
    1997: 23 of 54 missing
    1996: 34 of 50 missing

    Other than that, I have a list of who's drawn every penalty in league history. I'll post it later, but first I want to figure something else out.

    I've been trying to make lists of penalties for 1996-8, much like the lists that MLS has published since then on their stats pages. I don't think you can find lists for those years anywhere on the internet, right? Could this info be found in an old media guide?

    It's hard because most of the old match reports suck, and some don't mention penalties that were saved. If somebody could help me out with this, that would be awesome.

    Here's some info for the saved penalties that I don't know which game they were from, along with the possible dates that I've narrowed it down to.

    1996

    Taken by:

    Code:
    CLB	McBride	13-Apr, 15-May, 30-Jun, 4-Aug, 10-Aug, 28-Aug, 15-Sep
    KC	Preki	19-May, 22-May, 20-Jun, 26-Jun, 6-Jul, 4-Aug, 21-Aug, 1-Sep
    MET	Vermes	13-Apr, 12-May, 30-May, 9-Jun, 21-Aug
    Taken against:

    Code:
    DC	Causey	13-Apr, 12-May, 15-May, 30-May, 20-Jun, 10-Aug
    LA	Campos	13-Apr, 19-May,  9-Jun, 6-Jul, 4-Aug, 21-Aug, 28-Aug
    MET	Meola	22-May, 26-Jun, 30-Jun, 1-Sep, 15-Sep
    

    1997

    Taken by:

    Code:
    CLB	Marino	13-Apr, 11-May, 7-Jun, 21-Jun, 13-Jul, 27-Jul, 6-Sep, 18-Sep, 25-Sep, 28-Sep
    DAL	Wash.	17-May, 23-May, 15-Jun, 15-Aug, 23-Aug, 16-Sep
    KC	Preki	12-Apr, 18-Apr, 27-Apr, 18-May, 6-Jun, 25-Jun, 2-Aug, 17-Aug, 12-Sep
    KC	Johnst.	12-Apr, 18-Apr, 27-Apr, 18-May, 6-Jun, 25-Jun, 2-Aug, 17-Aug, 12-Sep
    MET	De Avi.	25-May, 23-Aug, 16-Sep
    TB	Vargas	29-Mar, 17-May, 25-May, 4-Jul, 15-Aug
    
    Taken against:

    Code:
    DAL	Dodd	13-Apr, 18-Apr, 17-May, 23-May, 6-Jun, 15-Jun, 13-Jul, 2-Aug, 15-Aug, 23-Aug, 6-Sep
    DAL	Dodd	13-Apr, 18-Apr, 17-May, 23-May, 6-Jun, 15-Jun, 13-Jul, 2-Aug, 15-Aug, 23-Aug, 6-Sep
    MET	Meola	29-Mar, 11-May, 18-May, 25-May, 21-Jun, 4-Jul, 3-Aug, 17-Aug, 23-Aug, 12-Sep, 16-Sep, 25-Sep
    MET	Meola	29-Mar, 11-May, 18-May, 25-May, 21-Jun, 4-Jul, 3-Aug, 17-Aug, 23-Aug, 12-Sep, 16-Sep, 25-Sep
    TB	Dough.	29-Mar, 12-Apr, 27-Apr, 17-May, 23-May, 25-May, 7-Jun, 25-Jun, 4-Jul, 3-Aug, 15-Aug, 18-Sep, 28-Sep
    TB	Dough.	29-Mar, 12-Apr, 27-Apr, 17-May, 23-May, 25-May, 7-Jun, 25-Jun, 4-Jul, 3-Aug, 15-Aug, 18-Sep, 28-Sep
    
    

    1998

    Taken by:

    Code:
    COL	Bravo	19-Apr, 31-May, 19-Jul, 25-Jul, 8-Aug, 2-Sep, 16-Sep, 19-Sep
    DC	Moreno	29-Mar, 4-Apr, 11-Apr, 18-Apr, 26-Apr, 13-May, 30-May, 25-Jun, 15-Jul, 29-Aug
    DC	Moreno	29-Mar, 4-Apr, 11-Apr, 18-Apr, 26-Apr, 13-May, 30-May, 25-Jun, 15-Jul, 29-Aug
    KC	Chung	13-May, 16-May, 31-May, 6-Jun, 19-Jul, 8-Aug, 16-Aug, 23-Aug, 2-Sep
    KC	Vermil.	16-May, 31-May, 6-Jun, 19-Jul, 8-Aug, 16-Aug, 23-Aug, 2-Sep
    MET	Hurtado	4-Apr, 3-May, 31-May, 3-Jun, 24-Jun, 4-Jul, 19-Jul, 12-Aug, 18-Aug, 2-Sep, 6-Sep
    MET	Rooney	4-Apr, 31-May, 3-Jun, 24-Jun, 4-Jul, 12-Aug, 2-Sep, 6-Sep
    
    Taken against:

    Code:
    CLB	Sommer	4-Apr, 26-Apr, 19-Jul, 12-Aug, 16-Aug, 6-Sep, 16-Sep
    COL	Hahn.	11-Apr, 31-May, 25-Jun, 4-Jul, 19-Jul, 8-Aug, 18-Aug, 2-Sep
    KC	Ammann	4-Apr, 31-May, 19-Jul, 29-Jul, 8-Aug, 2-Sep
    MIA	Napol.	23-Aug
    NE	Feuer	29-Mar, 18-Apr, 13-May, 16-May, 31-May, 24-Jun, 15-Jul, 2-Sep, 26-Sep
    NE	Feuer	29-Mar, 18-Apr, 13-May, 16-May, 31-May, 24-Jun, 15-Jul, 2-Sep, 26-Sep
    TB	Ravelli	19-Apr, 3-May, 13-May, 30-May, 3-Jun, 6-Jun, 29-Jul, 29-Aug
    
    
     
  24. scaryice

    scaryice Member

    Jan 25, 2001
    Ok, I've figured out Moreno's 2 misses from 1998 (vs Feuer and Ravelli).

    I also was able to find out who drew 6 more penalties from 1998 (31 left). Thanks to DC's old site. I guess that's my next step, to go through all the old team sites.
     
  25. scaryice

    scaryice Member

    Jan 25, 2001
    Ok, I now have reason to believe that MLSnet's 1996 stats are missing several penalties.

    Here are the 1996 team stats.

    It says that Bo Oshoniyi faced two penalties and both were scored. But, as you can see here, on 4/27/96 Oshoniyi saved a Tab Ramos penalty. Ramos is not listed as taking a penalty that season. It can't be a shootout pk, because the game ended 2-0.

    It was even mentioned a year ago in a Jeff Bradley MLSnet article.

    I also found one match report that says a Jean Harbor pk was saved, and that one is missing too.


    This isn't too surprising because the stats for that year list 50 penalties, and only 6 of the them missed which would be really high.
     

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