Patrick Vieira, Sol Campbell, Martin Keown, Lauren, Ray Parlour and Dennis Bergkamp (albeit to a lesser extent) don't make it seem that way. Arsene Wenger makes it seem the opposite. How in the world can you defend that? It does not matter if Ruud is hated by other teams, if it did, would you not complain in Stephen Carr, Darren Anderton, Freddie Kanoute and Simon Davies did the same to Campbell or Vieira? Arsene would piss his pants in anger for weeks. I don't mind what happened in the match (Vieira's kick and Ruud reaction, the cheap tackles from both teams). These represent a rivalry and are great to watch. What happened after the final whistle was disgraceful. Had Ruud dived to get the penalty I wouldn't be aruging about it. Ruud didn't even go down for the penalty! It was Forlan, and it was indisputable. Ruud missed from the spot fair & square, his bad. Had Keown even done what he did (sans the "elbow" or whatever you want to call it in the back of the head), I would've said "Keown's a pr!ck", and left it at that. But Keown and Lauren, inparticular acted disgracefully. Lehmann, Parlour & Vieira (going for Ruud after the red card) also deserve to be punished. The fact that Wenger denies any wrongdoing on his teams part is beyond laughable. Also, for those saying Keane is dirtier that Vieira... let me throw two things at you 1. Who was the more composed of the two captains yesterday, making sure things didn't boil over too much, and even calming the situation when the other captain got sent off? 2. Keane has been at ManU 10 years (since 1993) and has 9 red cards. Vieira has been at Arsenal 6 years (since 1997) and has 8 red cards... who does this make look dirtier? and before you cry "conspiracy", don't... Keane has been the most closely watched player in EPL history (at least for a big team, so Vinnie Jones doesn't count)
Why can't we all just get along....because we hate you Look, I'm not arguing that Vieira didn't deserve the red card. In fact, most Arsenal supporters agree with the red card. But do you understand that we hate ManU. I mean, really, really hate you. I don't care that you're upset. I don't care that you think it's "unprofessional." No team can legitimately claim that another team is unprofessional -- all teams do some unsavory things. It's just part of the game. Everybody's missing the point by acting morally outraged by the event. Sometimes people hate each other, sometimes people fight -- shocking, isn't it. --df
Re: Why can't we all just get along....because we hate you Like I said, had Keown did what he did after the PK (apart from the elbow), I'd just call Keown a pr!ck. However, elbowing and pushing a player when he does not (or even does) have the ball and did not do anything to any of the players on their team (Vieira kicked at him and deserved a yellow regardless of Ruuds response, since he was already on a yellow it was a going to be a red). When ManU play Liverpool, or Bayern, Juve or Real in Europe, the events are heated and cheap shots fly about, but acts like that do not happen, because that is not how a top-flight team should conduct themselves. This is meant to be "the beautiful game", and teams like Manchester united and Arsenal have doen a lot to move english football more towards that, while still being phyiscal... let's not tarnish it with these acts. Simple question... had Keane, O'Shea, Tim Howard & Rio done that exact thing to Jeffers (a very hated player who is ONLY good for diving), how would you react? And how would Wenger react? Especially if there had (thus far) been no action taken (although something from the FA is inevitable)
Re: Re: Why can't we all just get along....because we hate you Well, I think we'd all be outraged, just as you are outraged at us. So what? That's the way its supposed to be. Its all about being a fan..hating someone's guts so bad you want blood spilt. I mean the down and out HATE that knows no reason and cannot be dissuaded. In fact, I think its the funnest part!
Let me throw a third at you: 3. Who ended Haaland's career with a horrible and intentional foul? Again, go have a close look at your team before you condemn someone else.
Hmmm, so I guess Patty was just randomly stretching his foot and leg in the direction of RVN? Point is that in a match like Arsenal-Man U, do anything stupid or close to resembling violence, and you will get sent off. After all, the FA has it in for Arsenal right? If Arsenal truly believed that, they wouldn't be doing idiotic things that would provoke yellow/red cards. I guess you could say that RVN reacted like a girl (admittedly so), but then again WTF is Vieira doing anyhow. To me it looked he did try to kick him. Is RVN supposed to stand there and just let Patty kick him, because of a little anger? Also, you can have 1st place for now, it's still September. Last year, we learned that the cream always rises to the top, no matter how big of a lead Arsenal is spotted in March. You're short term memory seems to be blinded by the snake oil you bought into from Wenger.
Did Man U players attempt to choke anyone? Moreover, the stakes in that April match were much higher than the stakes in this late September match. When you consider that Arsenal blew a big table lead last year, one would assume that their players would realize there is plenty of football to be played. You would have a point (no pun intended) if this game were played with the EPL season winding down and it's a neck and neck race between Arsenal and Man U.
Choking? Who got choked? I saw Keown brush the head of Van Nistelrooy as he went past with his arms in the air trying to wind the Dutchman up. It's been called an elbow by others on this thread, but that's just ridiculous. Nothing there. I then saw Lauren push Van Nistelrooy in the back, that was stupid and he'll probably be punished for it. The rest of the players were pushing and shoving a bit. What are you on about? Now as for my response to your original point, this is what you said: I was merely pointing out that your players did exactly the same when they got a draw at Highbury last season. How are you going to spin this?
Read my first response to this. I said that the Man U-Arsenal match @ Highbury last year was when the season was near the end, making it a little more at stake, than a match at Old Trafford in late-September. If Arsenal drew with Man U in late April, with the EPL title up for grabs, then you can celebrate all you want. It's just funny for me to see a supposed top-table club celebrating a draw in SEPTEMBER.
I guess he was trying to shake his hand, but inadvertantly reached for his neck? At any rate, you can't really justify the Arsenal players shoving RVN, after the match. That's just bushleague. It puts the "Arse" in Arsenal.
There must be more mancs on this board than there are on the mancs board! (Er - they do have their own board don't they?)
Well, i dont want to be unpleasent guys but i think you all miss the REAL problem with this case, and similar cases in the past and prob in future. Was the expulsion of Vieira justified in the current application of rules? Yea prob. But, IMO, here is the issue: Who is the most responsable for trouble in games? Group 1: The ones like RVN, Turks, Balkans' player, Italian who are professional taunters. I mean they are the best to enrage their opposant, the best for sending lil hits, verbal harrasments and for irritating behavior, the whole behind referee's eyes? Group 2: Players with hot blood like Patrick Vieira, Zidane (sometimes), Beckham in 98, etc ... Ppl who cant stand those behaviors and frequently consider they HAVE to react to them? You can call the second group of player of stupid, unprofessional, childish ppls. In a certain way, they are, as the best for them and for their team is not to see them overreact as they do. BUT, the real players to blame are from group 1 imo. Without those repeated sneaky attacks, it wouldnt be counter-attacks. They are the one who aggress ppl first and they SHOULD be the first ones to be punished by referees. I think it is referees' liability to prevent those "stupid" retaliations by sanctionning, BEFORE it happends, the a$$holes who taunt them.
By the way, Mancs, how many Arsenal fans are on your boards defending the clubs actions? Is it just me, or did we keep this argument to our forum? Call me crazy, but I think that's what we did...
And let me add one more: What club's fans hit Winterburn in the head with "a piece of debris?" I could go on...
I hadn't seen that picture. It looks bad, granted. I wasn't justifying shoving Van Nistelrooy. I said Lauren shoved him in the back, it was stupid and he will probably be punished for it. What do you want from me? Back to the original point. If you go to your biggest rivals for the title, get your captain sent off (his own fault I know), concede penalty (dubious in my opinion, but the fact that Keown didn't complain much tells a story) in injury time and still come out with a point, you would jump for joy too. If I were you I would try actually going to some sporting event and see how people get caught up in the situation rather than moralising from your armchair.
Arsenal's Behavior Let me give you the neutral position. Between the poor European performances, the red cards, and the Wenger excuses, Arsenal is fast becoming the joke of our office. I'm talking about European soccer fans who are neither Arsenal nor Man U supporters. True neutrals, like me. It's one thing to be hated. It's another to be the butt of jokes. Your players -- and your coach -- need to get a grip. They're embarrassing the name of the club that you support.
I've been thinking that we should change the sub-title of the board form "in association with Arsenal America" to "Over 1,000,000 Manure trolls served."
I guess you've seen before-and-after stills that show Lauren was trying to choke him and didn't simply miss when trying to push him away? Still photos are great for incitement but they frequently misrepresent reality. This past summer those of us in Rhode Island saw a picture just like this that was purported to be a Narragansett Indian trying to choke a cop but the video evidence clearly showed that he was just trying to push the cop away. So, since I still haven't learned how to post pictures here, would any of my fellow gooners like to find some compromising photos of mancs doing possibly nasty things, or should we just continue to remind them that Keano admitted to trying to injure Haaland?
If you think there's more at stake in April than there is in September- especially between 2 teams like ours- then you should've paid more attention in math and history classes. Oh, and if you think it's silly to celebrate a tie against your biggest rival after having your captain sent off and your opposition missing a pk then you've obviously never played the game either.
hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha oh wow, you have got to be kidding right? My god, denial, it's the worst stage.
How courageous of Arsenal to be able to play a man down for 10 freaking minutes. When is the parade for Arsenal's 03-04 EPL Championship?
Isn't there a Yankees game on that you should be watching? Perhaps a Red Wings scrimmage, or even a Lakers practice?
I never said Keane hasn't had his "moments" Also, about that "condemning others without looking at yourself" comment, why do so many arse fans never shut about about "Ruud dives at least 2 or 3 times a game" "I swore I saw Ruud dive here, there and everywhere" and so on when you have Pires and Jeffers (even if he is on loan this season) on your team? Ruud does dive, but is still a fantastic player... Jeffers just dives