Pauleta - Greatest Portuguese player

Discussion in 'Portugal' started by Portugallia, Dec 18, 2005.

  1. leafster

    leafster New Member

    Jul 21, 2004
    Toronto, Canada
    Rui Costa is a midfielder, not a striker. You truly are a genius :rolleyes:
     
  2. Portugallia

    Portugallia BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Dec 9, 2005
    Ok then, so lets take Pauleta's goals from this world cup's qualifying round. Would Portugal have made it to where it is now?

    A big fat NO right people?
     
  3. Portugallia

    Portugallia BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Dec 9, 2005
    Ah...so Rui Costa is immune from being questioned on his goal scoring abilities but when he scores...ah yes.
     
  4. Força Sporting

    Sep 29, 2002
    Club:
    Sporting CP Lisbon
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    I think that Pauleta being the best EVER Portuguese NT player is a little too extreme. I mean, he is a great goal scorer, we can't take that away from him, but take a guy like Eusebio - he never got the opportunity to pad his stats by playing against the Liechtensteins, Luxembourgs and Eastern European nations that once comprised the Soviet Union. It kinda depends on how you look at their careers. If you take it strictly on a goal scoring mechanism, then Pauleta is your guy, I suppose. Then again, you could poll 100 people and ask for their top 10 all-time NT players, and you'd get 100 different lists, for sure. Different strokes for different folks...
     
  5. marco goncalves

    marco goncalves New Member

    Apr 29, 2002
    Boston

    Now your getting carried away ,,,an inform Jorge Cadete over Pauleta.....Yeah ok.....

    Cadete was great in one team only,Celtic Glasgow,and were not exactly talking about the most competitive league ,are we?

    We did garbage at Celta Vigo ,did very little in Italy ,useless at Benfica....Grabage at E.AMADORA.......

    Pauleta great goal scorer every team he played ,except his second season at Deportivo.....
     
  6. GoodDead

    GoodDead Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 8, 2004
    Toronto Canada
    Club:
    Sporting Braga
    Nat'l Team:
    Portugal
    That summed it up for me. WC2002 He killed a shell shocked Poland outside of that game every other amjor Tourney has resulted in no goals for Pauleta.

    Sure he's got the most goals.....But he did it in more games vs far weaker teams then what Eusebio had to deal with.

    He's playing extremely well right now and I can honestly say I've never had as much faith in Pauleta as I do right now. But I would put him in the top 10 all time for Portugal not #1.
     
  7. TO DEVILS

    TO DEVILS Member

    Jun 10, 2005
    Canada
    I actually would say YES!!!

    He scored 1 goal in the 2-0 victory against Latvia. We would won 1-0
    He scored 1 goal in the 7-1 victory against Russia. We would have won 6-1
    He scored 2 goals in the 3-0 victory against Latvia. We would have won 1-0
    He scored 1 goal in the 2-1 victory against Liet. We would have tied 1-1
    He scored 2 goals in the 6-0 victory against Lux. We would have won 4-0
    He scored 2 goals in the 5-0 victory against Lux. We would have won 3-0
    He scored 1 goal in the 2-2 tie against Liet. We would have lost 2-1.
    He scored 1 goal in the 4-0 victory against Estonia. We would have won 3-0.

    So intead of 30 points we would have finished with 29, still first in the group.
     
  8. Portugallia

    Portugallia BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Dec 9, 2005
    I don't know about "We would have won" in the above games. Sure the 7-1 and 5-0 victories ok but without Pauleta's goals in the above who knows how it might of influenced the team.

    Scoring a second goal in a 1-0 game changes it a lot.
     
  9. TO DEVILS

    TO DEVILS Member

    Jun 10, 2005
    Canada
    You are the one that said if we removed the goals, would we be in the WC?

    So that is what i did. It's not my problem you don't like the stats. All his goals were against small teams. Even Postiga or Nuno would have score had they been there.

    I just showed you the facts and against facts there are no arguments.
     
  10. Portugallia

    Portugallia BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Dec 9, 2005
    It just seems Portugal's greatest goal scorerer doesn't even get a top 10 ranking by some.

    Yet the only hard facts seem to be that Eusebio has a better strike ratio. Other than that it's just opinions by mainly Benfica fans. Such as Rui Costa is a midfielder and hence immune from comparison or Eusebio played tougher opposition without naming who the opposition was.

    It seems Eusebio is ranked number 1, god knows who's ranked 2-10 and Pauleta somewhere outside our galaxy.
     
  11. Portugallia

    Portugallia BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Dec 9, 2005
    Well in that case can you also add Eusebio's 66 world cup qualifying stats so that we can take his goals away according to your logic.

    Where are these stats for Eusebio by the way?
     
  12. Frank Cunha

    Frank Cunha New Member

    Sep 17, 2001
    UNION TOWNSHIP, NJ
    first you can't compare the teams we play for the world cup and Euro with the teams we face in the 50's, 60's, 70's early 80's
    the East bloc nations didn't exist, also in those years the national teams played around 6 to 8 games a year, compare to today 12 to 18 games , because of travelling costs.
    if Eusebio had played against Latvia, Estonia, Liechestein, etc he would had score another 100 to 200 goals.
     
  13. TO DEVILS

    TO DEVILS Member

    Jun 10, 2005
    Canada
    Pauleta is worth top 10....but not number one.

    You also have said Pauleta is n1, just because of his goals, and i have showed you that without them we went to the Euro final and we would have been in this WC06 anyways.

    This is your opinion, i respect yours, so respect ours.

    p.s. By the way you forgot to say that we don't like Pauleta because he is from Acores. You missed that in your previous post.
     
  14. Frank Cunha

    Frank Cunha New Member

    Sep 17, 2001
    UNION TOWNSHIP, NJ
    by the way Eusebio was not even a striker, in his day he had, Jose Aguas, later Jose Torres, Artur Jorge, I would pick any of this guys anytime over Pauleta

    here goes my top 5
    1. Eusebio [Benfica]
    2. Jose Aguas [Benfica]
    3. Peroteyo [Sporting]
    4. Matateu [Belenenses]
    5. Fernando Gomes [FC Porto
     
  15. leafster

    leafster New Member

    Jul 21, 2004
    Toronto, Canada
    :D Eusebio's opposition was Brazil and England in 66 and the best teams in Europe during Benfica's championship runs.

    As far as Rui Costa, he scored 26 goals in 94 games as a midfielder (not a striker) for Portugal. In my opinion, that's much more impressive since it's not his primary job to score. Then you take into account that as far as skill and overall play, he's was miles better than Pauleta and has won bigger trophies.
     
  16. Portugallia

    Portugallia BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Dec 9, 2005
    Look may dad's a Benfica fan and Eusebio means the world to him but I can't ask him to show me stats because he doesn't have that type of know how so it would be disrespectful of me.

    In a forum such as this I do however expect something more tangible other than blind faith. Goal ratios, total goals scored...anything as long as it's consistent data so Pauleta and any other Portuguese player can be compared to.

    Otherwise it's all blind faith.

    Is it fair that one day Cristiano is remembered as a great player because of his flair while players of a different style like Pauleta who actually get the job done receive no recognition at all?
     
  17. marco goncalves

    marco goncalves New Member

    Apr 29, 2002
    Boston

    Pauleta has failed to score goals in important games:

    Up till 2004 ,or actually before the Euro 2004

    Pauletas only 2 important goals were vs Holland...

    He scored in the 2-2 game in Porto for the WC 2002 .
    And scored 1 goal in the 2-0 win over Holland in Rotterdam...If he hadnt scored we would of won the game anyway.....

    He than scored 1 goal vs Brasil in a friednly also in Porto ,and 3 goals in the Wc vs Poland....

    Heres a list of games he has failed to score up till April of 2004.

    Armenia 3-1 win -1998 wcq
    Germany 1-1 tie in 1998 WCS
    Northern Ireland 1-0 Wcq
    Israel 1998 ,2-0 win Friendly
    Holland 0-0 tie friendly
    Liechstein 5-0 win Euro 2000 qualification
    Azerbaijan 1-1 tie Euro 2000
    Romania 1-1 tie Euro 2000
    Hungary 3-0 Euro 2000,SAW A RED CARD
    Denmark 2-1 win ,Prior to Euro 2000(how can i forget that Figo goal on Scheimchel)
    Italy 2-0 loss
    Wales 3-0 win
    Germany 3-0 win ,Euro 2000,Conceicao hatrick
    Estonia 3-1 WIN wcq
    Ireland 1-1 tie WCQ
    Israel 2-1 win friendly
    France 4-0 loss -friendly
    ireland -1-1 tie WCQ 2002
    mOLDAVIA 3-0 WIN
    Angola 6-1 win
    Spain 1-1 tie
    Finland 4-1 loss
    Usa 3-2 loss
    South Korea 1-0 loss
    England 1-1
    Sweden 3-2 win
    Italy 1-0 loss
    Macedonia 1-0 win
    Holland 1-1 tie
    Paraguai 0-0 tie
    Bolivia 4-0 win
    Cazaqastan 1-0 win
    Spain 3-0 loss
    Norway 1-0 win
    Italy 2-1 loss


    Plus 0 goals at EURO 2004


    Pauleta has only scored on 2 really powerfull teams .Holland 2 goals and Brasil 1 goal.....
     
  18. Portugallia

    Portugallia BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Dec 9, 2005
    Yes but some say Rui Costa has been mediocre since his arrival at AC Milan.

    On the other hand Pauleta has been consistent for PSG many years running and has been voted French player of the year twice.
     
  19. Frank Cunha

    Frank Cunha New Member

    Sep 17, 2001
    UNION TOWNSHIP, NJ
  20. Dragao Azul

    Dragao Azul New Member

    Oct 19, 2005
    Canada
    Club:
    FC Porto
    "Receiving recognition" and saying he is the greatest Portuguese player is very different.

    Everyone here respects Pauleta and have all agreed he is good striker. He is not however, the greatest Portuguese player.
     
  21. leafster

    leafster New Member

    Jul 21, 2004
    Toronto, Canada
    Well his career is winding down but if you actually watched Milan play, you would see that the old man still has a lot of quality and could still be a starter on most teams in Italy. What keeps him out of the starting lineup is an amazing player named Kaka.

    Also Serie A >>> Ligue 1
     
  22. marco goncalves

    marco goncalves New Member

    Apr 29, 2002
    Boston


    Rui Costas 1st year at AC MILAN was a disaster,in the 1st game of the league he broke his wrist and hand...Ws never the same after that for the entire season,played in the wc ,scored 1 goal vs Poland....

    Has gotten a lot better at Ac Milan,but dont forget hes in his 30s and the arrival of KAKA didnt exactly help,however everytime he comes off the bench hes very influential......

    I have all the stats for Pauleta ,as i just got done reading his autobiography,any questions just ask.....
     
  23. Benfica_fan

    Benfica_fan Member

    Jun 5, 2002
    Connecticut
    Do a search in on this forum, you'll find Eusebio's career stats, Frank Cunha has posted them before.
     
  24. marco goncalves

    marco goncalves New Member

    Apr 29, 2002
    Boston

    I have all the stats for Eusebio and Pauleta ,ask exactly what you need and ill post it.....
     
  25. Portugallia

    Portugallia BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Dec 9, 2005
    Thanks Frank, now we're talking. See I never knew Jose Aguas lifted more CL cups than Eusebio.

    This is what I'm talking about. Where is Jose Aguas ranked in Portugal's greatest players ever and why? Is he 2nd, 3rd. All you hear is Eusebio and stuff every other Portuguese player.
     

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