Pat Tillman - killed by "friendly" fire

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by DJPoopypants, Dec 6, 2004.

  1. DJPoopypants

    DJPoopypants New Member

    Ah, the neverending saga of lies and myths.

    Pat Tillman,the ex-NFL player who volunteered for Ranger duty in Afghanistan, was killed not by enemy fire, but by extremely negligent friendly fire - leading to disciplinary action for his team.

    CNN/Wash Post has more on the incident that lead to his death.

    http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/12/05/tillman.friendly.fire.ap/index.html

    I respect Pat Tillman's choice. I respect the work our military does.

    I hate the whole culture of spreading lies and mistruths about what happens in war - how certain incidents seem heroic, but a year later, when the lies are discarded, the truth is plain and ugly. I hate the liars, and I hate the sheep who swallow these lies hook, line, and sinker, and perpetuate them. And I hate the people who get all upset and belligerant when confronted with any evidence that our military is not some GI Joe kiddee tv show.

    Well, RIP Pat Tillman. At least you gave your life in Afghanistan, against the real enemy, instead of being killed by stupid mistakes on the ground in another war that was nothing but a series of stupid mistakes by your civilian bosses.
     
  2. Karl K

    Karl K Member

    Oct 25, 1999
    Suburban Chicago
    How noble of you!! How morally upright!! How high and mightly.

    Meanwhile, what's happened? The truth comes out. Why? Because we live in a country where truth CAN come out.

    Tell you what. Here's what I despise. I despise the negative pessimists like you who assume things are so awful when, in fact, we should be thankful that the truth gets revealed.

    Carry on.
     
  3. Barbara

    Barbara BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 29, 2000
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I really don't understand what you're trying to say here. Is it that our gratitude at finally learning the truth should negate our rage at being lied to in the first place?
     
  4. Dante

    Dante Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 19, 1998
    Binghamton, NY
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We weren't lied to, he was killed in action. That's what everyone thought had happened. It was reported within a day that he was killed battling the Taliban, well they were battling them except they weren't the ones who killed him. After such incidents the military debriefs the unit to get the entire story. The Army changed the status of Tillman's death a month after the incident ocurred, you can't blame them for "perpetrating a lie". They did a thorough investigation and published their account of what happened, it's not something that happens over night.
     
  5. Mel Brennan

    Mel Brennan PLANITARCHIS' BANE

    Paris Saint Germain
    United States
    Apr 8, 2002
    Baltimore
    Club:
    Paris Saint Germain FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    We should take what we're offered from our betters, Barb, and be happy when what we're offered, every now and then, ISN'T sh!t.
     
  6. DJPoopypants

    DJPoopypants New Member

  7. Roel

    Roel Member

    Jan 15, 2000
    Santa Cruz mountains
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Lying is OK, as long as the lies come from "our" liar. If it comes from "your" liar, it is treason.

    Given Tillman's commitment and bravery, you'd think his story always deserved the truth.
     
  8. MLSNHTOWN

    MLSNHTOWN Member+

    Oct 27, 1999
    Houston, TX
    Why does the fact that he was killed by "friendly" fire in a gunfight with the Taliban make him any less a hero for foregoing his NFL career and millions to join the Army?

    To me it makes no difference. Every soldier that dies serving this country is a hero in my mind. Regardless of the cause of death.
     
  9. DJPoopypants

    DJPoopypants New Member

    So naturally, in your black and white world, you hate truth and love liars then? Thanks for clearing that up. Says a lot about you.

    By the way, when is your Las Vegas debut of Sheryl Crow covers, dedicated to your glorius leader?

    "Lie to me, I promise I'll believe
    Lie to me, but please don't leave"

    can I get some tickets, or at least a complimentary upgrade at the buffet?
     
  10. DJPoopypants

    DJPoopypants New Member

    I wish I could have have said it as well as you.
     
  11. Mel Brennan

    Mel Brennan PLANITARCHIS' BANE

    Paris Saint Germain
    United States
    Apr 8, 2002
    Baltimore
    Club:
    Paris Saint Germain FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And if you feel that way, then you might wonder "Why not just tell us the truth?" Why lie? Jessica Lynch, Tillman...it might make a reasonable person wonder what else is being lied about. Unless of course, no lie makes any difference. Where do you draw the lying line?
     
  12. Karl K

    Karl K Member

    Oct 25, 1999
    Suburban Chicago
    Flash everybody!! This just in.

    Getting at the truth can be very hard.

    Some folks lie; some folks omit; some folks don't come forward right away.

    Sometimes, getting at the truth takes time.

    But in DJ's and Mel's black and white world, it's all about the moral turpitude of those who they disagree with, or those who participate in situations they object to.

    Folks, this is one reason, among many, you will continue to lose elections and not have any power.
     
  13. irishFS1921

    irishFS1921 New Member

    Aug 2, 2002
    WB05 Compound
    hahaha jessica lynch. JACKPOT.
     
  14. irishFS1921

    irishFS1921 New Member

    Aug 2, 2002
    WB05 Compound
    [​IMG]
    unintentional racism on the defense. 5 yard penalty replay the 3rd down.
     
  15. VFish

    VFish Member+

    Jan 7, 2001
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Atlanta
    What's the big deal? This story broke in May.
     
  16. Daksims

    Daksims New Member

    Jun 27, 2001
    Colorado
  17. Coach_McGuirk

    Coach_McGuirk New Member

    Apr 30, 2002
    Between the Pipes
    I, myself, was wondering what all the hub-bub was about. I think it was within a week that it was reported that "firendly fire" was the cause of death.

    Hell, I thought someone had dredged up an old thread before I read it.
     
  18. dj43

    dj43 New Member

    Aug 9, 2002
    Nor Cal
    Thank you. You beat me to it.

    Actually, IIRC, this was reported within a day or 2 of the announcement of his death.

    Again, I am glad for a country that allows this freedom and I respect all of those who serve their country but especially Pat Tillman. It is disgusting to me that some people used this event to take a political position, especially when they are quickly shown to be jumping to a conclusion that never happened.

    On a day when professional athletes are deservedly coming under criticism for bad choices in their lives, we don't hear enough about those who perform courageous acts, even when those acts go as unpublicized as working with kids in their local neighborhoods.
     
  19. Dante

    Dante Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 19, 1998
    Binghamton, NY
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I guess this thread just goes to show that people will bitch about anything, even when it's old news.
     
  20. dj43

    dj43 New Member

    Aug 9, 2002
    Nor Cal
  21. Coach_McGuirk

    Coach_McGuirk New Member

    Apr 30, 2002
    Between the Pipes
    I am so pissed at James K. Polk right now. Turns out "Manifest Destiny" wasn't fair to Native Americans!
     
  22. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How do you feel about the positive pessimists and the negative optimists?

    That's what I wanna know.
     
  23. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He's a UNC grad. He gets a pass.
     
  24. GRUNT

    GRUNT Member

    Feb 27, 2001
    Lake Oswego, OR
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I do not see anything from that six-month old article that the new information shows to be dishonest. I also do not think it is unreasonable for full details to take a few months to materialize.

    It is just a very sad story for everyone involved. I would guess there are a few young men, who relive those events everyday, and will likely struggle the rest of their lives with the consequences of their mistakes. I wish them luck finding peace.
     
  25. Karl K

    Karl K Member

    Oct 25, 1999
    Suburban Chicago
    Of course, this sensible and appropriate attitude leaves no room for the "high-minded" moral outrage of DJ and Mel--except on BS, where they can let their smug self-righteousness flourish unabated, without any understanding of the broader implications.

    But then again, the two of them bring new meaning to the word "narrow."
     

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