PBP: P01135809 Trump Espionage, Coup, Conspiracy, Racketeering, Fraud & Obstruction Trial Thread

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by The Jitty Slitter, Jun 10, 2023.

?

What will be the outcome?

  1. Guilty

  2. Not guilty

  3. Pardons himself

  4. Goes into exile in Snowden's flat

  5. Some other fascism

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. wantmlsphilly

    wantmlsphilly Member+

    Aug 2, 2006
    Philadelphia, Pa.
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Many
     
  2. wantmlsphilly

    wantmlsphilly Member+

    Aug 2, 2006
    Philadelphia, Pa.
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Um, who's getting the money? My question was what happens if they couldn't come up with the money and I'm not talking about Trump?
     
  3. wantmlsphilly

    wantmlsphilly Member+

    Aug 2, 2006
    Philadelphia, Pa.
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's a giant assumption on your part. This isn't a criminal case but a civil case using a law that's never went after someone for this reason. Every person who buys any type of real estate better think twice if this stands.
     
  4. Smurfquake

    Smurfquake Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 8, 2000
    San Carlos, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    OJ Simpson would like a word.
     
  5. wantmlsphilly

    wantmlsphilly Member+

    Aug 2, 2006
    Philadelphia, Pa.
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    With no right to appeal if they can't put up the money for the judgement. Yes
     
  6. wantmlsphilly

    wantmlsphilly Member+

    Aug 2, 2006
    Philadelphia, Pa.
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Don't believe OJ ever paid that to the family. He went to jail for something else.
    Correction, he has paid $133,000 of 50 million.
     
  7. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    Should somebody mention the word "escrow" sometime here, just so's it is clear that the money isn't being held by Hunter Biden or Mike Lindell during the appeal.

    The idea is to prevent Trump and his lawyers from spending it all on hookers and blow, and then saying "gee, it was just here" when the appeal fails.
     
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  8. wantmlsphilly

    wantmlsphilly Member+

    Aug 2, 2006
    Philadelphia, Pa.
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That doesn't answer the question of what happens in the future if another person can't come up with the escrow but would have won an appeal? There is no real victim here and if he loses, this money isn't going to the bank who would supposedly been the victim if fraud.
     
  9. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You do understand that the penalties are relative to the fraud committed, yes. For example, if you committed fraud that was assessed at $100m, that would be your penalty and you would have to put that up. If you committed fraud of $1m, that would be your penalty. If you committed fraud of $100m, your penalty could be less. If you committed fraud of $1m, you could not have a penalty of $100m. Or even $2m. (In most cases.) The penalty is determined by the value of the crime.

    The issue I think you are missing is that because of the nature of the fraud, and how Trump behaved in court, and how he was dismissive of the charges and did not believe any of this applied to him, he was banned from using a licensed financial institution to do business in NY to post bond and appeal. Most are not so dismissive of the court's ruling, and are thusly not banned from using such financial institutions, and either have the cash or use an agent to post bond.

    Not correct. This is business fraud, and there have been laws on the books, and cases prosecuted, since the 1950s. Because business fraud was a big problem, and still is.
     
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  10. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Would have won an appeal? What are you talking about? Please be more concrete than one or two sentences.
     
  11. wantmlsphilly

    wantmlsphilly Member+

    Aug 2, 2006
    Philadelphia, Pa.
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Cool but last night they reported not one case has ever been tried for these circumstances. The bank would be the victim that would file the claim. Can you link to one with the state going after someone in real estate for over valuing their assets and paying back the loan being prosecuted?
     
  12. wantmlsphilly

    wantmlsphilly Member+

    Aug 2, 2006
    Philadelphia, Pa.
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    With this ruling you now have precedent to go after someone who over valued their wealth. Before it was left to the bank to come to an agreement. Now what happens if they don't have this money?
    https://www.foxnews.com/video/6347320151112
     
  13. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It is fraud to knowingly provide the bank with an inaccurate estimate of their wealth. The fact that the bank has auditors that can downgrade their estimates does not mean it isn't fraud to knowingly file inacurate paperwork in the first place..
     
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  14. MattR

    MattR Member+

    Jun 14, 2003
    Reston
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Perhaps nobody has ever been this obvious and stupid before? I mean, winning bigly!
     
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  15. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    @wantmlsphilly one element of the crime was that Trump tripled the size of his home in order to inflate its value and get a better interest rate. Tripled!

    I doubt there are many homeowners on this thread that could make the same mistake by accident.
     
  16. lanman

    lanman BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 30, 2002
    I thought Trump had claimed in his deposition that he had over $400m cash at his disposal, so the amount he needs for the appeal shouldn't be a problem as he would obviously have been completely honest.
     
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  17. wantmlsphilly

    wantmlsphilly Member+

    Aug 2, 2006
    Philadelphia, Pa.
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Did you watch the video?
     
  18. wantmlsphilly

    wantmlsphilly Member+

    Aug 2, 2006
    Philadelphia, Pa.
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    THIS ISN'T ABOUT TRUMP IT'S ABOUT THE PRECEDENT SET IN NEW YORK. Please stop going back to Trump. Kevin O'leary on CNN makes the argument how real estate developers do business. I really don't want the government involved when they are not the victim.
     
  19. JamesA

    JamesA Member+

    Dec 7, 2004
    Victoria
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Exactly. This wasn't merely overvaluation by putting down a bigger $$ value on paper.

    He repeatedly lied in official documents about the physical square footage of his NY property.
     
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  20. lanman

    lanman BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 30, 2002
    So it should only be down to people who can show that they have been specifically disadvantaged by criminal acts to take action? Aren't the government there to represent the people and ensure a level playing field?
     
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  21. Smurfquake

    Smurfquake Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 8, 2000
    San Carlos, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's kind of weird how wantmlsphilly is concerned for regular homeowners who might get targeted, when the obvious solution is not to do fraud. It's basically impossible for a regular homeowner to commit so much fraud that they can be penalized for an amount greater than the value of their home, and maybe I'm naive, but I still think the justice system would find in my favor if the government brought a civil fraud case against me for more than the value of my home, because I don't commit fraud. Now, someone who runs for President and routinely defrauds people and has a history of creating shell companies in order to commit fraud, they might need to worry about this, but it's not very high on my list of concerns.
     
  22. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    "They?" Whether this is tax fraud or bank fraud or real estate fraud, it is fraud, and what kind depends on how it violates written law. Legal experts in this area have said, over and over, that it is not about if anybody was or was not harmed, but if there was a violation of the law. Engoron, in fact, said very much that. In fact, he says in his opinion based on expert testimony that if Trump had not over valued his assets, he would have not gotten the loan at a favorable rate, and thusly would not have been able to afford the loan. If he had not overvalued his assets, he would have had negative cash flow from 2017 to 2021, according to the opinion.
    We are going after you because you are continuously saying this is about real estate. That is the right wing/Trump supporting talking point. This is not about real estate, this is about fraud. And Kevin O'Leary is not a legal expert. And, btw, that "argument about how real estate developers do business" is an argument that Trump made in court, and was dismissed.

    Officer: Sir, you were doing 85 in a 55.
    Driver: Nobody else was on the road.
    Officer: You were speeding.
    Driver: But nobody got hurt.
     
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  23. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Kevin O’Leary is the Shark Tank guy, right?

    Since you saw the segment, how did he justify this? It feels to me like one rich guy made famous on reality TV supporting a peer.

    Your argument here is that Trump is being singled out. First of all, well, he’s a life long criminal. That’s what happened to John Gotti too. Second of all, maybe he’s being single out, maybe he isn’t. I don’t know of others doing the same thing getting away with it. But it’s beyond doubt that IF THATS TRUE it’s the exact opposite if every other one of his cases, where he’s already have been convicted if he was Just a Guy.
     
  24. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why would I watch a video on Fox News? A channel that is little more than a Republican propaganda channel, repeatedly lies about everything Trump related, etc, etc.

    Have you read the ruling? The judge covers this in his ruling. Namely that the fraud is committed by knowingly including fraudulent information on the form they file with the bank. This is regardless of the bank catching the errors or not.

    As for it setting a precedent.. Good. More corporations should be charged for lying on the forms they submit for loans.
     
  25. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Cascarino's Pizzeria BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    Russian oligarch cash flow is at a crawl ATM. Donnie needs to stall.
     
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