Orange, the rebuild starts now

Discussion in 'The Netherlands' started by feyenoordsoccerfan, Oct 11, 2017.

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  1. Frysk Bloed

    Frysk Bloed Member

    Sep 6, 2014
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    I know Laurent and I rarely agree but I do agree that we should be taking attacking fullbacks. That's how you counteract having a midfield that lacks creativity (look at Liverpool for example, though they also have arguably the best creative striker in the world in Firmino).

    Right now the Netherlands are literally picture perfect in the sense that they should be taking queues from how Liverpool play. The only different being they have the potential for a much stronger central pairing but no real option to play the Firmino role. Fill the midfield with runners, press high up the field, look to create transitions and quick passing to open up counter attacking or incisive opportunities for Promes/Memphis to score.

    I'd set up like this to follow that formula:

    Diks - de Vrij - van Dijk - Willems
    Wijnaldum
    van Ginkel - Vilhena
    Promes - ??? - Memphis​

    To be honest I'm struggling to think of who to put in the middle. It needs to be someone that is creative, not necessarily a goal scorer, and with a high work rate. I would even consider someone like Klaassen or Fer as an unconventional 'false 9' so to speak. Maybe Afellay or Toornstra?

    Either way you funnel the play through the wings and fullbacks and look to transition quickly or rotate the ball if the other team is sitting back defensively.

    Goodness I really wish Lijnders would do double duty and work for the KNVB. He'd turn this team around quickly I think.

    Anyway, kind of a lackluster performance. I'm glad Memphis is back in the fold and I think with him and Promes together we'll continue to improve offensively. It's just finding the link to utilize those two.
     
  2. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Cheers bro. You know I still love you :p

    (no homo)
     
  3. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Come on now. I apologized
     
  4. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
  5. Keko

    Keko Member

    Jul 17, 2014
    Chicago
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Frenkie de Jong summarizes well what in my opinion is one of the reasons Dutch football doesn't produce top players anymore:

    Veel jeugdtrainers maken het voetbal veel te moeilijk en halen daarmee de vrijheid uit een speler
    Frenkie de Jong
    Er volgt een boeiend inkijkje in de huidige problematiek van het Nederlandse voetbal. ‘Ik heb de wijsheid niet in pacht en ben nog maar een jonge speler, maar zie toch wel waar het vaak misgaat. Veel jeugdtrainers maken het voetbal veel te moeilijk en halen daarmee de vrijheid uit een speler. Dat twee keer raken, het kiezen voor zekerheid boven risico. Ik liet me nooit iets aanpraten, deed zoveel mogelijk op intuïtie, maar veel voetballers zitten zo niet in elkaar. Misschien was ik wel overstag gegaan als ik eerder bij Ajax terecht was gekomen. Dan had ik meer concurrentie om me heen gehad, waren trainers wellicht voor een ander gaan kiezen als ik mijn acties bleef maken en niet klakkeloos luisterde. Bij Willem II had ik krediet, omdat ik jaarlijks tot de betere voetballers behoorde. Daardoor ging ik op een bepaalde manier mijn eigen weg. Ik hoop dat meer talenten dat doen. In Nederland is het positiespel heilig, maar volgens mij slaan we door in het positiespel om het positiespel. Balletjes breed, balletjes terug, om maar balbezit te houden. Ik hou van risico, van vooruit voetballen, en wil op een goede manier op avontuur gaan in een wedstrijd. Bij Ajax kan dat en ik merk uit de reacties van de fans dat ze zoiets ook waarderen.’

    Source: https://www.vi.nl/pro/overig/frenkie-de-jong-hoop-van-de-toekomst-met-een-eigen-mening
     
  6. Unfortunately the rigid believe in the "Ajax system" leads to this thing.
    It is quite opposite of what the youth coaches at Feyenoord do.
     
  7. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I'm not so sure this is true these days. The Ajax youth teams are doing very well and last year Jong Ajax was 2nd in the Jupiter League. The difficulty is translating this to the senior team.
     
  8. wilson00

    wilson00 Member

    Oct 14, 2015
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Diks is s average defender and his outings in CL has been woeful. His move to feyenoord has exposed his ceiling.Bart Nieuwkoop looks overall better than him. Hateboer also should be looked at.he has broke into starting 11 for Atalanta this season and also has been deplyed as attacking midfield in 3-4-2-1.
    Another thing when playing with attacking fullbacks is that you need a very efficient midfield which again is something that NT lacks.when the fullbacks are caught up front the midfield should be able to bail them out.Dumfries is another contender who is up and coming.
     
    Brilliant Dutch repped this.
  9. I expect his loan will not be extended, as it has been a waste of money, unless he suddenly improves dramatically.
     
  10. White/Blue_since1860

    Jan 4, 2007
    Bum zua City
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
     
  11. Will Kik Pierie choose Oranje or the USA:cautious:
     
  12. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    If he has to think about it then I dont want him
     
    Oranje98 repped this.
  13. You donot want his "FdeBoer to Bergkamp against Argentina long range passing quality"?:eek:
    Was a joke btw;)
     
    Rinus127 repped this.
  14. BaritoPutra

    BaritoPutra Member

    Jan 26, 2007
    Morocco heading to the World Cup. I am genuinely happy for the Dutch-Moroccan kids fulfilling their childhood's dream playing in the biggest stage, while at the same time feeling sorry for the Dutch, who have invested heavily in their development.

    I think this is likely, for better or worse, the end of the Dutch-Moroccan players' involvement in the Dutch NT for a foreseeable future. I can see future dual-nationality players will opt to represent Morocco for possibly an easier route to the W.C.... although I am skeptical that Morocco's success is sustainable, given their recent history of underachieving and infighting. The counter argument is, of course, that the Netherlands is in a tough rebuilding process in a much more competitive landscape.

    Not sure whom the Dutch NT will "lose" next - Oussama Idrissi from the U21?
     
  15. Laurent75

    Laurent75 Member

    Aug 2, 2014
    #115 Laurent75, Nov 12, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2017
    I think dutch people should be fair play. Dutch football is miserably failing and there's no extern reason but dutch football itself. People like DRB who used to praise european intelligence, infrastructures and whatever while looking down at third world ones should just take a look at the miror now. There are at least 3 or 4 african nations that could and would probablyh beat the Netherlands in a knock out game nowadays.

    Ziyech was right to chose for Morocco when you see how arab players are being treated in european nations nowadays. Benzema for example. Afellay did a good job with the Netherlands NT but he received very little recognition and even had some people talking bad about him as a person while a player like Wijnaldum who sucks game after game keeps being a starter. and get positive comments about his person. European surely love blacks more than north african muslims nowadays. Kluivert had rape rumours about him but kept going with his nice career, look how Benzema is being treated now.

    And to be honest, I don't think african nations have an easier an easier route to the WC than european ones. There are only 5 tickets to take. Ivory Coast is in a crisis period but they are still not inferior to the teams of Czech Republic, Turkey or Bulgaria that beat Holland.
     
  16. Keko

    Keko Member

    Jul 17, 2014
    Chicago
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Frenkie de Jong vs Andorra:



    The future oranje team has to be built around him. It's a shame Keizer prefers Siem over Frenkie atm.
     
  17. Keko

    Keko Member

    Jul 17, 2014
    Chicago
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Morocco profits from the work of other countries. Out of the 11 starters yesterday, 10 (!) were born and learned football in other countries. As a Peruvian, I would not feel related to players representing my country who couldn't even speak my language properly.
     
  18. IconoclasticFury

    IconoclasticFury New Member

    GAE
    Netherlands
    Nov 12, 2017
    #118 IconoclasticFury, Nov 12, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2017
    Well, I tend to agree, but being Dutch, Cruijff's articulation provides kind of a dilemma...
     
  19. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I'm happy some countries are at least profiting from our work, cause Oranje sure isnt
     
  20. Laurent75

    Laurent75 Member

    Aug 2, 2014
    Some countries have big diasporas, sometimes even bigger than their own population, how do deal with this ?
     
  21. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Look at all the German born players who have played for the US NT!!:p
     
  22. Rinus127

    Rinus127 Member

    Sep 8, 2015
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Benzema is not a martyr of society, he must stop this permanent victimization. Ginola and Cantona, in the past, had the same kind of problem in France team. Benzema is not a victim of racism. In addition, Afellay did nothing extraordinary in the national team.
    Young people of Moroccan origin may feel offended from the general climate in Holland with the theories of Wilders or Baudet, and maybe that plays into their choice, I do not know. What is certain is that the national team has lost its power of attraction and I think that the choice of Amrabat is purely opportunistic.
    What it would take is to appoint a general manager like the Germans with Oliver Bierhoff.
     
  23. Laurent75

    Laurent75 Member

    Aug 2, 2014
    #123 Laurent75, Nov 13, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2017
    Cantona was giving high kicks on football fields. You can compare him to Evra but not to Benzema.

    Benzema is being hated and excluded because of extra sportive reasons where his guiltiness is to be proved yet.
     
  24. Rinus127

    Rinus127 Member

    Sep 8, 2015
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    These extrasportive cases of which the victim is Valbuena, his former teammate in the France team, fully justifies in my opinion his exclusion. He also said clumsy things about the coach of the France team who is not racist. Have you seen the composition of the France team? Benzema is a spoiled child, overrated as a player. We must stop seeing racism where there is clearly no racism. Benzema has relationship problems with his coach. Basta.
     
  25. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    The other key thing is that Benzema is just not as good as all the other choices that Deschamps has for striker.
     
    richsavare repped this.

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