And you still haven't answered what you do when the "tall" person doesn't WANT to play GK (or forward). AND you're not talking about what their current stature is. You want to TRY to look at their genetics and say "you won't be tall (in 10 years), so you shouldn't play GK". I still call BS on you knowing so many teens that are "depressed" because they didn't get a college roster spot simply because they're "not tall". I really think you're using that as an excuse because your GK is short and has given up goals.
You do the same thing as when the tall person doesn't want to play center in basketball. you tell me. lol you call BS. ok, you're free to make things up in your head I guess. I can't stop you. This hasn't nothing to do with our GK giving up goals. I gave you the factual basis for my argument. I'm fine being alone in this idea. Often the crowd, the masses, are wrong. I'm sure if you look at history you can find some examples.
You can’t project a kid at ten years old. When kids get into high school they will start to grow and then you might know who will have the size. Just stop with your ideas to try and professionalize your ten year old.
I will weigh in on this. I get what NDC is saying ans there is some truth to that. I also don't think it is a problem for various reasons mentioned in this thread. If it is a problem it is a parent problem. For example, when I was a kid I enjoyed watching horse racing. One day I told my dad that I wanted to be a jockey when I grew up. He rolled his eyes and told me right then and there that I wasn't going to be a jockey. I told him why I thought I could. He said I will be too big. My 6'2" adult self appreciates my dad taking me to baseball to pursue that dream rather than taking me to riding lessons and farms to pursue the dream of jockeying. I did not achieve my dream of being an MLB player but I transitioned to mens fastpitch softball as an adult and played at a decently high level, have good friends, and recently got back into it after a 15 year hiatus that corresponded with my sons soccer career. My failed attempt at professional baseball has led to a life of enjoyment. Though I failed I could still dream about it through high school. I probably sized out of jockeying by 8th grade. It is incumbent upon parents to know their child. If Lionel Messis kid came up to him and said "Dad I think what you do is great and with your genetics I think I have a chance of being a pro. I want to put in the work required. Will you help me be a pro goalie?" He might say "Son, my genetics will not allow you to be a world class goalie. If you really want to be a pro work on these skills so your able to play in the field." You could fill in any 5'7" player in this story. On the other hand if his son likes player soccer among other things and is not solely focused on being a pro soccer player and liked playing goalie I'm sure Messi wouldn't tell him not to. A parent has to know his her kid and the situation. The same thing is true for 5'9" dads of a short armed decently athletic middle school basketball player. Don't encourage them to be an NBA player because it ain't going to happen. Encourage them to enjoy the game and play it as long as they can.
There seems to be a lot of stock in determinism, genetic or otherwise, in this thread. What is the chance of a kid with short parents being pretty tall (or vice versa)? Less than 20%? 10%? Certainly not 0%. Now compare this to the chance of becoming an NBA player or a top-flight soccer player or anything equivalent. It's vanishingly small. Making it as goalie for a top flight team has to be even smaller, just based on the number of slots available. If your kid doesn't grow up to be a top-flight (or even college) goalie, it's overwhelmingly likely to be caused by things along the way OTHER than (your) genetics. If I were 6'6" and my 10-year-old kid said she wants to be a goalie, I'd say great idea but it's going to take some hard work, so if you're ready to start let's focus on making some good stops this weekend. Meanwhile make sure you're working hard on keeper fundamentals at practice, watching how the game unfolds, and don't forget you need to keep up with the rest of the team on the field, because that's what keeper need to be able to do nowadays. Besides do you really want to play half the game and sit on the bench the other half when the other keeper players? I'd like to think I'd have a similar conversation if my (or anyone else's) kid said to me she wants to be an astronaut or a nuclear physicist so what can I do to get there? Not, well hardly anyone gets to be an astronaut or nobody is hiring for nuclear physicists right now, or hey your parents don't really seem like the brightest bulbs in the box so maybe think about another career.
I also would say great idea! I would also say "you really should try out basketball and volleyball!" Gymnastics? Not gonna happen
Nick Rimando 5' 9" Jon Busch 5' 10" Both were MLS GKs of the year. Both had long professional careers.
I never said short GKs can't be good. Never even said they are any lesser than tall GKs. What I'm saying is that there seems to be a trend of increasing discrimination against shorter GKs. I'm not exactly for or against that trend. Its just an observation. If anything I'm slightly against it; I think they are overlooking some good GKs due to their bias. But it is what it is.
You literally started this thread with the following statement: "I know this will be controversial, but let me be blunt. I don't think short kids (or kids who will likely end up short) should be encouraged to be goal keepers. How can you tell what height a kid will end up as an adult? Of course you can't tell 100% but you can get some idea by looking at the parents. Genes matter. Why do I feel this way? Because let's face it - you have to be tall to get far as a keeper. Sure there is the rare exception. But by and large you have to be above avg height. You have to be at least 6'0" and even that's on the short side. The avg GK height is 6'3"'
And? I don't think I contradicted myself. I don't think short kids should be encouraged to be goal keepers because increasing discrimination against shorter GKs The avg height is 6'3" Observations of the industry. Coaches prefer taller keepers. Therefore shorter ones will be facing headwinds, therefore I would not encourage it. If they're just playing for fun then it doesn't matter. I'm talking about kids aiming for the higher levels.
At 8 or 9 years old, every kid should be playing for fun. It's the ones who are aiming for higher levels (or, more accurately, their parents) that burn out.
When you are actively discouraging players, who you deem may end up to short, you are a part of the "discrimination" against short keepers that you speak of. It is circular logic. The reality is, for players around your son's age no kid should be encouraged to play keeper. The keeper position can begin to be sorted out at 11v11. Clubs focused on winning over development will be more than willing to ID keepers as soon as they can and get them keeper specific training as soon as they can because in 9v9 through U13-15 having a trained keeper is a huge advantage until other teams eventually settle on kids who truly want to be keepers at older ages.
I didn't say I would discourage, I said I wouldn't encourage. I think goalie training is actually good. I have my kid do it even though he will not be a keeper. But it develops good hand eye coordination and is good for overall athleticism because it works on the whole body. As long as it's secondary to foot skills. But the tall kids should be encouraged to get goalie training. They are most likely to be goalies and it's good for them anyways. I don't see the downside.
What I see is that, if there's not clear goalie, it's the kids least likely to say "no" to playing goalie that get stuck there even if they don't want to. They're too nice to push back. But I feel it robs them of valuable field time. That's some coaches approach. Then others its rotate all the kids since no one wants to do it. And that's fair. But then they should all get some basic training. At 8 yrs old they have been told to not use their hands and then you throw them in goal with no training and they don't use their hands. So my kid does some goalie training because he gets thrown in their time to time. Plus its a great work out. And a great perspective of the field. I think it increases soccer IQ.
No, nobody at 10 years old or small field should be encouraged to play keeper. There are early bloomers who come out of the gate bigger than others but their growth is not always linear trajectory and some of those "smaller" kids sprout later on. It is too much of crap shoot to apply any determinism before puberty even begins. The keeper position should just be rotated until U13-U14. That tall kid you want to encourage to be keeper could end up a power forward type of a wall of CB. Remove them from the field, simply because of early height robs them of developing as a soccer player first. Keepers can and do get identified later and they can get coached up very quickly compared to field players. You never get that field time back but you can always move to keeper later if you have the attributes.
The guy who played GK for my over-30 indoor team had never played soccer in his life; he'd been a catcher in youth baseball and that gave him the skillset he needed to play the position reasonably well.
What do you tell the kid who says he WANTS to be GK? We've had that on multiple teams, and yes, at U10.
You simply let them rotate. What they do away from the team in regards to training is on them but at U10 it should be a war crime to designate a kid as keeper to the detriment of their field play opportunities.
I went a session today at the United Soccer Coaches Convention that was relevant to this. A significant chunk of players that are the tallest at u10//u11 don't turn out to be the tallest in the long run--they just hit growth spurt first but data show most stop growing faster too
I have a U14G keeper who always wanted to play in goal since U9. I never allowed her to play fulltime in goal, even though her coaches would have loved that. I pushed hard for her to be a good field player and develop excellent footskills which involved doing soccer camps, small group privates, extra skills training sessions, etc outside of practice times all while playing keeper in games. Since birth she's been on track to be about 5'3" (33rd percentile) and yet she kept pursuing being the keeper. Her coach wanted her full time at U13 and I refused. Even though he had no problem with a short keeper because she had excellent footskills and can play out the back so well, I knew that maybe the high school or college coaches would look at her height and not give her a chance. Well, today that happened. She went to an ID session for an higher level club and they praised her shot stopping and footwork as well as how confident is she on the ball in the back. Her passing, punts, ability to distribute the ball are excellent. The negative she was told was "she's on the shorter side" and while she can use better positioning and the ability to organize her defensive line to help her out, she's going to have trouble "with balls over her head". You can't overcome shortness although you can try your best to excel in other ways to overcome it. She's training many hours to work on her vertical jump, punching the ball, etc. I knew this day would come, and I'm sad she never fully committed to being the best field player possible because she loves GK so much, but she had to pursue what she loved. And she's a ROCK STAR in futsal since the goals are smaller. It's true-being short is not in anyone's best interest if wanting to be a goalkeeper, but for some kids, it's their true love and passion, so you can't prevent them from trying either. Just make sure they have something to fall back on. My daughter can still play the field fairly well-she still starts over others on her team when they need extra field players. But she's definitely at a disadvantage over the others who have been training and playing since U9 as field players. There's not enough time in the week for her to go to practice, then goalkeeper training then extra training to work on strength and jumping, etc. This thread hit home in so many ways, and I agree with both sides!