On the Bubble and New Faces for 2022 cycle

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by Eleven Bravo, Dec 2, 2020.

  1. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #1 Eleven Bravo, Dec 2, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2020
    Fortunately, the USMNT seems to have restocked its player pool. I believe we’ll start to see guys who seem to be deserving of a call up, but won’t have done enough to get called in. ..Well, unless you can play goalkeeper. Then, if you have a pulse, we need you to fill out a roster spot.

    Nonetheless, starting with what’s out there. Guys who have not been called in since Covid.

    From MLS:
    GK Matt Turner, 1994, New England Revolution
    GK Sean Johnson, 1989, NYCFC
    GK Brad Guzan, 1984, Atlanta United
    GK Steffen Frei, 1986, Seattle Sounders
    GK JT Marcinkowski, 1997, San Jose Earthquakes
    RB Joe Scally, 2002, NYCFC
    RB Bryan Reynolds, 2001, FC Dallas
    RB Nick Lima, 1994, San Jose Earthquakes
    RB Aaron Herrera, 1997, Real Salt Lake
    RB Brooks Lennon, 1997, Atlanta United
    RB Dylan Nealis, 1998, Inter Miami
    RB Jaylin Lindsay, 2000, Sporting Kansas City
    CB Miles Robinson, 1997, Atlanta United
    CB Henry Kessler, 1998, New England Revolution
    CB Donovan Pines, 1998, DC United
    CB Justen Glad, 1997, Real Salt Lake
    LB Chase Gasper, 1996, Minnesota United
    LB George Bello, 2002, Atlanta United
    LB Ryan Hollingshead, 1991, FC Dallas
    LB John Nelson, 1998, FC Dallas
    DM James Sands, 2000, NYCFC
    DM Wil Trapp, 1993, Inter Miami
    MF Eryk Williamson, 1997, Portland Timbers
    MF Darlington Nagbe, 1990, Columbus Crew {Declines call-ups}
    MF Cristian Roldan, 1995, Seattle Sounders
    MF Marky Delgado, 1995, Toronto FC
    MF Tanner Tessman, 2001, FC Dallas
    MF Brandon Servania, 1999, FC Dallas
    MF Keaton Parks, 1997, NYCFC
    MF Hassani Dotson, 1997, Minnesota United
    MF Paxton Pomykal, 1999, FC Dallas
    AM Jesus Ferreira, 2000, FC Dallas
    AM Gianluca Busio, 2002, Sporting Kansas City
    AM Tony Fontana, 1999, Philadelphia Union
    RW Corey Baird, 1996, Real Salt Lake
    RW Cade Cowell, 2003, San Jose Earthquakes
    LW Memo Rodriguez, 1995, Houston Dynamo
    LW Caden Clark, 2003, NY Red Bulls
    LW Jonathan Lewis, 1997, Colorado Rapids
    FW Jozy Altidore, 1989, Toronto FC
    FW Jeremy Ebobisse, 1997, Portland Timbers
    FW Ricardo Pepi, 2003, FC Dallas
    FW Christian Torres, 2004, Los Angeles FC

    From Abroad:
    RB Shaq Moore, 1996, Tenerife
    RB Tim Chandler, 1990, Eintracht Frankfurt
    RB DeAndre Yedlin, 1993, Newcastle United
    RB Matthew Olosunde, 1998, Rotherham
    CB Ventura Alvarado, 1992, San Luis
    CB/LB Kik Piere, 2000, Ajax > FC Twente {Netherlands dual}
    CB Cameron Carter-Vickers, 1997, Tottenham > Bournemouth
    CB Erik Palmer-Brown, 1997, Man City > Austria Wien
    LB Chris Gloster, 2000, PSV Eindhoven
    LB Kobe Hernandez-Foster, 2002, Wolfsburg
    LB Travian Sousa, 2001, Hamburg
    DM Chris Durkin, 2000, St. Truiden
    DM Bryang Kayo, 2002, Wolfsburg
    MF Taylor Booth, 2001, Bayern Munich
    MF Christian Cappis, 1999, Hobro
    MF Fredo Morales, 1990, Fortuna Düsseldorf
    AM Julian Green, 1995, Gruether Firth
    AM Alex Mendez, 2000, Ajax Amsterdam
    AM Luca De la Torre, 1998, Heracles
    AM Matko Miljevic, 2001, Argentines
    AM Malik Tillman, 2002, Bayern Munich {Germany dual}
    AM Duane Holmes, 1994, Derby County
    RW Tyler Boyd, 1994, unattached
    RW Lynden Gooch, 1995, Sunderland
    RW Sebastian Saucedo, 1997, UNAM
    RW Emmanuel Sabbi, 1997, OB
    LW Indiana Vassilev, 2001, Aston Villa > Burton Albion
    LW Nick Taitague, 1999, Schalke
    LW Cameron Harper, 2001, Celtic
    FW Haji Wright, 1998, Sonderjyske
    FW Aron Johannsson, 1990, Hammarby
    FW Joe Efford, 1996, Waasland-Beveren
    FW Andrija Novakovich, 1996, Frosinone
    FW Jordy Siebatcheu, 1996, BSC Young Boys {France dual}
    FW Bobby Wood, 1992, Hamburg
    FW Folarin Balogun, 2001, Arsenal {England dual}
    FW Charlie Kelman, 2001, Queens Park Rangers
    FW Patrick Koffi, 2001, Paris FC
    FW Malick Sanogo, 2004, Union Berlin
    FW Matthew Hoppe, 2001, Schalke

    Now, we have already included
    GK Steffen, Horvath, Odunze, Hamid, Dos Santos, Ochoa

    RB Dest, Cannon, Duncan, Araujo

    CB Brooks, Miazga, Richards, Long, Zimmerman, McKenzie, Pineda, Ream

    LB Robinson, Farfan, Vines

    MF Amaya, Perea, McKennie, Adams, Otasowie, Johnny, Yuiell, Acosta

    AM Reyna, Bassett, Lletget, Musah, Aaronson, Ledezma, Mihailovic

    L/RW Pulisic (injury), Konrad, Weah, Llanez, Morris (playoffs), Mueller, Arriola, Alvarez

    FW Akinola, Dike, Sargent (recalled), Soto, Gioacchini, Zardes (withheld)

    ...from this group, this is what our best 23 looks like:

    GK Steffen, open, open
    FB Dest, Cannon, Robinson, open
    CB Brooks, Miazga, Richards, open
    MF McKennie, Adams, open, open
    AM Reyna, open
    WF Pulisic, Musah, open, open
    FW Sargent, open

    ...Sargent, Richards, Miazga, and even Musah still shouldn’t feel completely safe yet. Because of a lack of better options - Cannon and Robinson - should feel a little more assured of their place. The others (Steffen, Brooks, Dest, McKennie, Adams, Reyna, and Pulisic) will be the core players for this team.

    ...close: Weah, Morris, Konrad, Ledezma, Aaronson

    ...competitive: Johnny, Llanez, Soto, Gioacchini, Mueller, Lletget, Otasowie, Long, Zimmerman, McKenzie

    ...sadly competitive: Vines, Duncan, Araujo, Yuiell, Acosta

    ...the rest are in the game, but they’re still dreaming.

    ...and GK is anyone’s guess.

    So, who on the outside is breaking in?

    My money from MLS will soon get a shot:
    GK Turner
    GK Marcinkowski
    RB Reynolds
    CB Miles
    LB Bello
    DM Sands
    MF Tessman
    MF Pomykal
    MF Williamson
    AM Ferreira
    AM Busio
    FW Ebobisse
    ...of these, Williamson, Sands, Reynolds, and Turner are the closest. Pomykal, Miles, and Ferreira took a step back this year. I don’t know if Ebobisse will ever be better than Zardes. Busio needs to get better. Tessman is promising but he’s not that next level yet. Bello is a mystery. And I think it’s unwise to ignore Sands - who might not ever be above the Wil Trapp line, but he needs a shot at least at the youth level.

    Moving abroad, these guys need to be closely monitored:
    RB Yedlin
    RB Chandler
    CB Alvarado
    CB Piere
    CB Carter-Vickers
    CB Palmer-Brown
    LB Kobe
    DM Durkin
    DM Kayo
    MF Morales
    AM Green
    AM De la Torre
    AM Holmes
    RW Boyd
    RW Sabbi
    FW Efford
    FW Johannsson
    FW Novakovich
    FW Wright
    FW Balogun
    FW Kelman
    FW Hoppe
    ...Of this group, Hoppe, Kelman, Balogun, Wright, Novakovich, Johansson, Efford are all close, and it’ll be about being in the right form at the right time. Sabbi is in the running but it s he good enough to crack into this team? Holmes and Boyd could return, but they’re behind the curve. Durkin deserves a shot - believe it or not. We need Kobe and Kayo to take the next leap forward. It would be nice for EPB and CCV to become reliable center backs. Meanwhile, Alvarado deserves a shot. Yedlin needs a move. And I don’t know why but we’ll continue to ignore Green, Morales, and Chandler. Also, I still think it would be worth it to persuade Piere to play for us. He’s hit a rocky patch, but he’s still incredibly young and has a high ceiling.
     
  2. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I hate to nitpick what was obviously a lot of work, but I think it's off to have players like Richards, Miazga, and some other as more likely to grab a 2022 slot than Jordan Morris.

    I also don't know that it's intentional, but completely leaving out Zardes out of the consideration for he projected 23 is also silly. The dude has performed, and despite the youth hype, striker is a weak position.

    I suspect that while everyone on this list is lightly monitored, there's a large chunk of them that will need to make a step change to be considered at all.
     
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  3. TrueCrew

    TrueCrew Member+

    Dec 22, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A lot of work and good stuff.

    But Morris is a near lock for the squad at the moment. So is Zardes. And a healthy Altidore (if such an animal still exists).

    In two years? Maybe not. But for now? Most assuredly.

    I think the rest is pretty spit on except for Morris & Zardes being underranked and Sargent over ranked.
     
  4. laxcoach

    laxcoach Member+

    United States
    Jul 29, 2017
    intermountain west
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    This is the bone of contention for sure. Many MLS fans feel this way and MLS non fans feel just the opposite; that MLS #'s and play inflate rank. In Morris' case however he's proven in the past he's USMNT quality the question long term is his endurance with diabetes in tow. And will any young studs pass him in 2 years (Dike, etc)
     
  5. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Morris was a lock in 2019, and I have
    stated that I thought he was our player of the year, then.

    But a lot is happening.

    Morris can play wing - where he would be best suited in our typical formation. And he can play forward.

    That means he needs to make the team for what’s probably the equivalent of six slots for his positions.

    So, let’s look at that:

    Is Morris better than Pulisic? Not even close.

    Is Morris better than Reyna or Musah - whoever is going to occupy that RW spot? Again, not even close.

    So, if it’s on the wing - at best - Morris is looking at one of the two bench options.

    He might have an inch on the group right now, but I tell you one thing - if Konrad de la Fuente, at all, becomes a rotational player for Barca-freaking-lona, Morris is not getting in over him.

    Then, there’s the other wingers who are right on his heels - such as Llanez, Boyd, Arriola, Mueller, Holmes, Alvarez, and Sabbi. Morris is ahead of that group, but it’s not by an insurmountable amount.

    But really, it’s the attacking mids who can play wing and the forward/winger types that could push him out: Aaronson, Ledezma, Weah, and Gioacchini. I think Morris still beats out Gioacchini, but I think Aaronson, Ledezma, and Weah have already surpassed him. And if they haven’t already, the project to do so very shortly. Alas, they’re a little further away, but they’re still in the picture is Mendez, Green, Busio, Ferreira, De la Torre, and even Pomykal. Those guys aren’t getting over Pulisic, Reyna/Musah, or Konrad if he’s playing for Barcelona; they’re getting in over Morris.

    Now, let’s move to CF where he’s more competitive, but there’s only 2 spots.

    Is he better than Sargent? I don’t know. But I do know that Sargent is going to be on the roster unless he falls off the radar and someone like Balogun comes out of nowhere and emerges as the next big thing at striker for us in Europe. Right now, Sargent is in that group with McKennie, Adams, Pulisic, etc. And it would be bizarre to count him out of the team that’s building such a promising future. That said, Sargent still had work to do. But I think his spot is safer than Morris’ spot.

    Okay, so that leaves us one spot... and Tim Weah is back playing again, and if he regains his form, unless he’s playing on the wing, he’s getting a spot on this team at center forward, for the exact same reason. We’re not leaving out one of our most promising players playing for Lille for someone who is playing for Seattle Sounders. Not gonna happen. Not unless any coach was an idiot. Or there were some weird things going on behind the scenes.

    Nonetheless, he still can compete for one of the last winger - forward spots, and even though he’s ahead right now... All it takes is one of Soto, Gioacchini, Wright, Johannsson, Balogun, Kelman, Hoppe, etc. to get hot at the right time, and they’re likely going to surpass him. Again, who are those guys going to beat out? Sargent or Morris? They’re competing much more against Morris than they are Sargent.

    Ultimately, the conclusive statement I would make on Morris... he’s definitely in the picture. You could even say he on the inside track to make the 23. But he is nowhere close to being called a lock for this team. There are a lot of guys that want HIS spot on this team.

    And even further behind Morris is Gyasi Zardes. Yeah, he could sneak in. But he’s counting on others not being available or not being in good form to get in.
     
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  6. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It’s where they play.

    The competition at that winger-forward spot is getting really tight... especially, if our budding players blossom. In no universe, does a player for Seattle Sounders beat out a player playing for Chelsea, Valencia, Dortmund, Barcelona, PSV, RB Salzburg, Werder Bremen, and Lille. Especially a player who is much younger and who has much greater upside.

    Meanwhile, at Center Back, we’ve got Brooks who is going to be a lock... even if he could get knocked out of his starting spot. Then, who partners with him? Richards is getting playing time for Bayern-freaking-Munich. If that continues, he’s in. And still, Miazga is a lot further ahead than some of other center backs, who are clearly a step behind what the USMNT was use to in the Bocanegra-Onyewu era. In a sense, we have a lot of decent options at center back, but we have very few great ones. Long, Zimmerman, McKenzie have proven themselves at MLS, but nowhere higher. Therefore, if someone distinguishes themselves, such as playing regularly for one of the best teams in the world... they’re safe to think they’re getting into this team.
     
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  7. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I know it's hard to believe, my argument for Morris and Zardes being rated higher has nothing to do with MLS.

    Morris was quite possibly the most productive and effective USMNT player in 2019. In the above post, Matt Miazga, who just fouled through two poor offensive opponents is in a stronger place? Chris Richards, who has barely played?

    As for Zardes, I've had Sargent in my Best XI for a long time. I'd probably STILL have him there. But Zardes outplayed him in 2019, and he's not listed even as a consideration.

    You phrase this as if critique is spurred by MLS fans who defensive about their players. That's not how I made the critique -- it was as someone who has watched how people have played in USMNT games and is wondering how many of you watch soccer and how many just look at club affiliation?
     
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  8. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Jordan Morris is a much better player than Konrad. It's not even close. If you are saying that in two years you expect Konrad to be better than Morris, that's one thing.

    If you are saying Konrad is a better player than Jordan Morris right now, you're blinded by club affiliation.
     
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  9. laxcoach

    laxcoach Member+

    United States
    Jul 29, 2017
    intermountain west
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Don't mean to stereotype you in particular.

    But for me 2019 is a year to forget, 2018 too. So bad I want to purge it from record. Pulisic didn't look good and others did...what to make of that?

    I actually think both should have their voices heard in camp and let the most production men in those lineups win.
     
  10. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I agree with that last point. And that's really my point -- there seems to be a tremendous amount of desire of the fanbase on here to exclude players based on club and I think it's unnecessary and if ever implemented, would be counterproductive.

    Playing time gets determined by performance in camp and performance in games. Invites to camp gets decided on the staff evaluation of the player's abilities in light of the team needs at the time, with allowances for developing young players/long term planning, etc.

    That evaluation should be of the players' skills and performance for the national team and their club, put in the context of the competition level.

    It's all pretty simple -- club is important, but it shouldn't override scouting, performance, etc.
     
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  11. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #11 Eleven Bravo, Dec 3, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2020
    Well, it’s debatable how much better than Morris is than Konrad as of December 3, 2020. But it’s also a coach’s job in the early stages of the cycle to project who is going to be the key players to get him through World Cup qualifying and to get him the best results in the World Cup. If we enslaved ourselves to yesteryear form only, we would have made Ike Opara a lock starter for this team last year. And we probably would have never broken away from that plan. More so, the gulf in class between Barcelona and Seattle Sounders is not like the gulf between Seattle Sounders and Besiktas. On that matter, there’s a reason that Jordan Morris would never have been considered for a club like Barcelona - it’s because he’s not good enough, he never will be, and no one ever thought at any point in Morris’ career - “man, this guy can excel at the top levels.” Likewise, to dismiss club affiliation entirely, is about as equally blind as using it as a metric all together. And Jordan Morris’ puny 10 goals for Seattle in 2020 does not scream “this guy is so much better than a guy getting into the rotation at arguably the best club in the world.” Nonetheless, I know BigSoccer tends to be divided into rigid extremes, therefore, I’ll clarify, I’m not anti-Morris. But I’m not so pro-Morris that I think he is locked in as an irreplaceable player either.
     
  12. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Zardes is still in consideration, that’s just a typographical oversight in that post. In other posts, for reference, especially on the player pool, I have him in the group range that includes Wright, Johannsson, Akinola, Soto, Gioacchini, Dike, etc. But for clarification, I stand by, he’s very much on the fringe at this point.

    Regardless, it’s not 2019 anymore. Hell, it’s about to not be 2020 anymore. There has been some time between Morris’ form in 2019, and who is emerging on the scene at the dawn of 2021. Look, it’s unusual, but we have transformed from the worst USMNT in probably 30 years, to arguably having the most promising USMNT 20 years in about 2 years time. For evidence of that fact, we could play our Olympic team versus our over 23 team, and that Olympic team could expect to beat that over 23 team by 3-5 goals (and that’s me being very generous). So, it makes sense, even the guys who were our top performers back in the dark ages of our program, their spot on this team is not so safe anymore.
     
  13. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    So it's forward looking; I have less of an issue with that.

    Agree.

    Are we talking right now? Or are we talking where you think they will be in two years?

    Reyna is a better player at doing what Reyna does -- drifting inside, helping with the build up, playing in tight space. If we want a winger to stretch the defense vertically, play the wide role in a counterattack, I think Morris is better for now. I could see Reyna overtaking him in the latter role as well, though I don't know that it is as foreordained.

    Musah's a beast and he's a fantastic CM. I've seen him a little at winger for Valencia, and I don't see how he's clearly better than Morris right now. He's got a goal and no assists in an attacking position in 800 minutes. He's fast, athletic and can protect the ball, but I like him much better as a central mid today -- and I don't know if he's going to develop the final product to the level that he ends up at wing.

    So if we're projecting, I think it's entirely possible both end up as better than Morris, though I think the idea that they are now and it's not even close is ridiculous. At least at the standard winger role.

    And if Musah does commit and he is that much better than Morris ... I think he's playing CM. Hell, Reyna could be moved there.

    In a certain number of scenarios, sure. There's also a scenario where Musah goes to England and Reyna moves to CM and Morris only Pulisic is clearly ahead of him.

    Okay? Right now Konrad is on Barca because he was free and doesn't get paid anything. I hope he develops into a Ousmane Dembele or Phillipe Coutinho or even Trincao ... but do you see that kind of upside in Konrad? Really? Because when Barcelona isn't bleeding cash -- and they are signalling they are going to miss paying players -- those guys are all rotational players for Barca.

    The Konrad I saw in the Wales game had some skills but nothing that makes me think he has the explosive offensive upside of a Coutinho or Dembele.

    I hope I'm wrong, and I hate putting negatives on younger players, but okay, sure, you're right -- if he becomes Coutinho ... he's in. Reyna's benched then, too. :)

    Morris is 25. Boyd, Arriola, Mueller, Holmes are not of materially different age, and Morris is CLEARLY better than all of them right now. Yeah, I suppose form could fall off but you have Matt Miazga in a better position. He just spent all his time fouling two teams not trying to score.

    The other guys could ... but it's just two years.
    I'm just going to stop. We clearly aren't seeing the same things.

    I expect players to outplay other players. We didn't even score against Wales and people want to remove our leading goal producer from last year ... who just turned in an MVP season in his league.
     
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  14. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I respect the point you’re trying to make, but I agree that I think we fundamentally disagree on the security of Morris’ position on this team. If I understand correctly, to you, he’s one of the first names on the team sheet, and a definitive lock for this team moving forward towards 2022. Alternatively, to me, he’s a player with a good shot at making the team, but he needs to really step up his game or he’s going to get surpassed, probably very soon too.

    Moreover, I don’t understand why you’re hanging onto Miazga versus Morris - they play two entirely different positions. Therefore, the measure of their security on this team is different. I promise, if there were a few more Chris Richards’ on this team, I would bump Miazga very quickly. But right now, his competition is not great. We have a lot of alright but not great contenders in that position. So, for now, his position is secure, for better or worse.
     
  15. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    People are going to hate this, but it's arguable about whether Konrad would be considered for a club like Barcelona if they didn't have an initiative to cut $60M+ in wages in the offseason. And if Konrad, even with the potential he has now at 18, had Morris' price tag of say $10M, do you think Konrad is on Barca's list?

    Bojan Krkic was a massive prospect for Barca -- debuted younger than Messi, actually started games, and did it at the early stages of the Messi dynasty.

    He played in MLS this year at 30 and was pretty damn forgettable.

    Konrad has some nice skills, and I've argued plenty that holding his 2019 U20 WC against him is dumb, given his age. But holy cow, there's no reason to go the other way. He's 19 -- Ousmane Dembele at 19 -- a rotational player at Barca -- had 10g and 21a at Dortmund.

    Pretending that there's this wildly efficient market is ignoring all evidence. Even top prospects often don't pan out. And if you are going to hang your hat on Konrad on the basis of Barcelona and not his play, then you are completely ignoring that he may only be there because he's free and cheap and maybe there's some potential rather than he's the heir apparent to a forward role at Barca.

    We've been talking for several posts, and I find it telling that the discussion isn't "I think Konrad overtakes him because he has been ball control skills, and playing in the system of Barca will help develop the same skills that Berhalter is looking for" or "I think he's better than Morris because I think the athleticism edge for Morris is overrated - he's quicker, etc...'

    No, it's just club related.

    I hope Konrad overtakes a still very capable Morris. Because that would be a really good player. Right now, I see playing Konrad at winger over Morris removes vertical speed, size, work rate, and while Konrad is a better dribbler, I didn't see any kind of dynamic play so far that creates goals. I think he'd play better right now as a cog with other creators ... but I don't need that in my winger when I'm not putting shots on goal versus Wales. I need someone who can force the defense to adjust. I don't see that in Konrad now.

    Maybe in two years, though. Maybe then.
     
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  16. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If we want to talk skill, okay, let’s do it...

    No, I’m not going to say Konrad is the next Messi or Dembele either. But what he lacks in end line speed, the thing I’m most worried about with him, he has in agility, shiftiness, and he’s solid (strength) on the ball. Will he pan out Barcelona? I have my doubts because of that end line speed. But I do believe he could snag a good deal for a club in that mid to upper range in the big five.

    Meanwhile, let’s talk about Morris - who has only proven what he can do in MLS and the CONCACAF League of Nations. One, that’s not the level we want him at, or need him at, but I get you can only play in front of you. That said, while Morris has that end line speed and he has improved some of his deficient areas of his game (tunnel vision, no left foot), he’s still not great in those areas and he’s a bit of a doughboy with poor endurance. He’s good for about 60 minutes and his game falls off.

    If I was a coach, and you made me pick between those two, I’m not saying Konrad would be my guy right now, but if he keeps improving like he is, it’s not going to even be close.
     
  17. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    First name on the team sheet? Eh, he's not the very core of the core -- I don't put him with Pulisic, Dest, McKennie, Adams.

    He's got some major weaknesses relative to Reyna as well that I think put in question whether he's a starter. Berhalter wants that winger to play inside, to help with the build up, and Reyna is a superior player at that.

    On the flip, though, in terms of making runs, in terms of vertical stretching, after watching Reyna really, really not be able to do those things well against Wales, I think Morris is still a better version of that type of winger today.

    I don't expect that to be true with two more years or a decent amount of practice. But I see Reyna differently than most -- I think he can play that role. If you think Reyna can only really play the CAM role, then Morris has to be superior for a certain type of winger.

    But it's not even Reyna where we differ. I think it's the reserves and the young players.

    Morris produces for the USMNT. And he brings some elements that I don't see in a lot of the young players. Konrad is a completely different player -- I don't think he's the right guy, even if he's improved that you bring on in a counterattacking game as an offensive sub. I had Weah in my first Best XI; I agree he could overtake, but he's not even playing and while I think he looked okay, he hardly took over.

    I think I just see Morris as MUCH more likely to be in the 23 for two reasons:

    1. I think he's the best non-Pulisic winger in his style of winger and I don't see anyone truly overtaking him; so if we want that guy, I think he's it.
    2. I think we habitually overestimate the development success of young players and even how good they are. Before a I send away a guy who produces goals for a team that has struggled to produce goals, I'd really, really like the young stars to ... produce goals. That's all.

    I think the idea that most of these guys are already better than Morris needs proving in fact rather than just club affiliation.

    Is it? We're bringing 4 CBs, maybe 5 CBs at most. Miazga is currently #4 on that depth chart at best, just had a rough camp, and is facing pushes from a number of players.

    I don't think Miazga pairs well at all with Brooks, and I think he's going to need to improve his current play to get on the team in two years. Help us all if we go into qualifying with him playing like he did against Wales and Panama.

    I think there's a pretty good chance Morris is in Qatar if he's playing at the level he did this year. I think that's the difference.
     
    sXeWesley repped this.
  18. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I think this is just a difference in evaluation and a difference in assumption of improvement.

    But take my points above and add in a healthy chance of a player or two being hurt, and I still struggle to see Morris being #6 or #7 on a healthy winger depth chart.
     
  19. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My thing is that 2019 is in the rear view mirror. This team needs a reset. And performance in 2019 isn’t going to guarantee you a spot in 2021-2022.

    I’ve never said Morris is done. But these young promising attacking players, who yes looking at the club affiliation, are much younger (no I’m not saying Morris is old), have more upside, and are playing at the level we want our team to be playing at.
     
    LouisZ repped this.
  20. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Note: you can look at my USMNT player pool and see him rated third on my list behind Pulisic and Musah (who I’m counting as a winger out of convenience because of McKennie-Adams-Reyna running the midfield and because that’s where he plays for Valencia).

    I just think he’s replaceable - and like you said it could be in two years before that definitively happens - but I’m not blind to the fact that Morris is not an automatic lock for this team throughout the 2022 cycle.
     
  21. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I’m willing to debate the Miazga pick... I fluctuate on that one myself. But he seems to be doing well at Anderlecht, he has the skill, even though he has lacked discipline and maturity - possibly the easiest to fix in time.

    But I think it’s nuts to compare Miazga and Morris in the same breath. Miazga is never going to play wing or forward, and Morris will never play center back. They’re competing against completely different players. So, if you want to say Long - who did not do well in 2020, or someone else should be above him, okay, I’ll listen. I’m not a thousand percent sold on Miazga either. But I’m not seeing a lot of options that are going to surpass him. And in no universe, are we going to start Morris at center back for this team.
     
  22. sXeWesley

    sXeWesley Member+

    Jun 18, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Many people who lean towards euro based players complained for a long time about the lack of looks that players were getting and argued that there needed to be more competition within the team. It would then be hypocritical to want to exclude players just because they are playing in MLS.

    I am in favor of the call ups themselves not being considered a holy grail that needs to be hoarded, or guys getting continually called up only because they are considered a veteran, even when playing like crap. Gregg has begun handling it very well imo, call 'em all up and let them sort it out in training.
     
    Calling BS, deejay, Eleven Bravo and 2 others repped this.
  23. Three and Three

    Three and Three Member+

    Sep 13, 2015
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Morris also has spirit, composure, maturity.
     
  24. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think Morris is almost a lock for the final 23. If the backup for Pulisic may be Weah, who is a better backup if Reyna continues to be starting RW? Boyd or Arriola? Nope. Morris is better.
     
  25. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Right now, certainly. We have a lot of young talent that could explode, but yeah, he has to be in a strong position for the 23.
     

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