Oklahoma City stadium needs assessment (2013-14)?

Discussion in 'Rayo OKC' started by Laramie, Oct 22, 2013.

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What kind of soccer specific stadium will be needed for Oklahoma City?

Poll closed Oct 22, 2014.
  1. 1. 7,000 - 12,000 seating capacity (expandable).

    61.1%
  2. 2. 13,000 - 18,000 seating capacity (expandable).

    11.1%
  3. 3. 19,000 plus seating capacity.

    22.2%
  4. 4. Build a venue which could be expanded at any capacity.

    5.6%
  5. 5. None of the above.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. ManuSooner

    ManuSooner Member+

    Nov 15, 2007
    Oklahoma City
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ive always liked Blackbaud
     
  2. FCjason

    FCjason Member

    Jul 25, 2013
    Oklahoma City
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not an engineer, but that stadium doesn't look like it could ever be expanded. At least not without just tearing it all down and starting over. I do like it, as far as a small stadium though.
     
  3. The Devil's Architect

    Feb 10, 2000
    The American Steppe
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
     
  4. ManuSooner

    ManuSooner Member+

    Nov 15, 2007
    Oklahoma City
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ok, so place your bets gentlemen...WHO will build a SSS first? Prodigal? OR SoS/OKC NASL? Both say they have plans to. Both say they are working with architects. Both have talked to city leaders. Who gets it done? And why? And where?
    Just trying to get this thread back on track
     
  5. FCjason

    FCjason Member

    Jul 25, 2013
    Oklahoma City
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If I had to place a "real" bet...I'd have to bet the Energy get one first.
     
  6. JeffIsInTexas

    JeffIsInTexas New Member

    Aug 16, 2013
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    I wouldn't feel comfortable betting, but something tells me any stadium that is built won't be built by Prodigal. They have always struck me as wanting to do everything on the cheap and with other people's money. Again, it is just a feeling and I may be wrong and I am willing to state up front a bias toward what SoS and the NASL and what I think would be better for the City.
     
    ManuSooner repped this.
  7. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Can I bet both fold with out building 1?
    :sneaky::coffee::whistling:
     
  8. Laramie

    Laramie Member

    May 5, 2010
    Oklahoma City, OK
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Let's hope that one of these groups will be successful and add to the menu of sports & entertainment in OKC.
     
    ManuSooner repped this.
  9. ManuSooner

    ManuSooner Member+

    Nov 15, 2007
    Oklahoma City
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That would be sad, but not unprecedented. Let's hope it doesn't happen
     
  10. Sports Fan Stan

    Apr 21, 1999
    Oklahoma City, USA
    Doubt anyone with any clout is reading my opinion, but a soccer stadia in OKC needs (in order):

    1- ability to expand from the initial version 1.0
    2- to find some way (with main stand, roof, whatever) to keep the evening summer sun (in NW sky at 6pm) off the pitch and as many fans as possible
    3- the central location that the Thunder enjoy

    Beyond that, its minor. Methinks it should be marketed towards state HS (and above) soccer events. Just guessing the numerous existing football stadia (with narrow fields) will win gridball event bids. Concerts are a natural. Has anyone been to a concert at downtown airpark with the skyline hovering over the event? That'd be cool! My $.02 is expended
     
  11. Laramie

    Laramie Member

    May 5, 2010
    Oklahoma City, OK
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Agree!

    I keep hearing that there will probably be some type of combination of soccer and American football stadium on MAPS IV in 2017 as the MAPS III sales tax expires. Who knows; this city just may go bid investing over $250 million initially in a venue.
     
  12. ManuSooner

    ManuSooner Member+

    Nov 15, 2007
    Oklahoma City
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree with points 2 and 3. But I don't necessarily agree with #1. I think the stadium should be built with a 20k capacity to begin with.
     
    Laramie repped this.
  13. Laramie

    Laramie Member

    May 5, 2010
    Oklahoma City, OK
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    We need to remember that it is going to be financial feasible to go ahead and build a stadium with as many specifications as possible. So many times we have discovered that expansion at 25%-50% will cost more than the price of the initial venue. Cosmetic additions to structures fall in the same category.
     
  14. NegativeCreep

    NegativeCreep Member

    Jun 24, 2011
    OKC
    Club:
    DC United
    Is there anywhere to build in the downtown area of OKC, to fit something of that size?
     
  15. canammj

    canammj Member

    Aug 25, 2004
    CHINO, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But complete the circle and it looks like a very modern/euro type of stadium.
    Then if the roofing is built in such a way to be removed or moved or reused, a second deck might be able to be added and the roofing reinstalled. I don't know if the supporting structure of the first deck is enough for a second deck or you have to upgrade it. But as far as OKC is concerned, the SJ stadium would make for a excellent start. It is better than Columbus which is really basic and I give it votes over Dallas because of the roof.
     
  16. ManuSooner

    ManuSooner Member+

    Nov 15, 2007
    Oklahoma City
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I know it might be cost-prohibitive but I see almost whole blocks empty in the midtown area. Don't know if that would be enough room. I also see quite a bit of empty spaces along the south side of the river. Also, at the fairgrounds where the racetrack used to be would be great
     
  17. NegativeCreep

    NegativeCreep Member

    Jun 24, 2011
    OKC
    Club:
    DC United
    I know I've driven past there 100 times, but what is in the spot where All Sports Stadium use to stand? There was a ton of parking around there.
     
  18. Laramie

    Laramie Member

    May 5, 2010
    Oklahoma City, OK
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    The paved area where All Sports Stadium was located is used for general parking, parking trailers and various large animal transport vehicles used in conjunction with events at the State Fair Arena and concourse event centers throughout Fair Park.
     
  19. ManuSooner

    ManuSooner Member+

    Nov 15, 2007
    Oklahoma City
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No, the spot where the racetrack used to be, along May Avenue
     
  20. ManuSooner

    ManuSooner Member+

    Nov 15, 2007
    Oklahoma City
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Maybe someone with knowledge about OKC land can answer this definitively. IS there a space big enough in the downtown-ish area to put a soccer stadium? And how much land would be needed? I read somewhere that Lucas Oil Stadium in Indianapolis is roughly 39 acres, and that includes 3,000 parking spots. I also know that Orlando was looking at a site that was only EIGHT acres for their MLS stadium.
    Discuss...
     
  21. Laramie

    Laramie Member

    May 5, 2010
    Oklahoma City, OK
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City

    I'm aware of the old GRAND STANDS where the stock car races were held along with those at Taft Stadium; that area could be used for a stadium, there is plenty of land with ample utilities in place on the 400-acre Fair Park. We've lost several iconic structures (monorail, grand stands etc.,) at Fair Park with the Arrows to Atoms space tower now in jeopardy.

    This would be ideal for a soccer specific-american football venue; however some posters want everything downtown and on the river. Fair Park would be the least costly place to build a stadium since the city already owns the land with it being managed under the auspices of the State Fair Board Trust.

    You would probably save anywhere from $25 to $100 million (depending on the stadium size & specifications) just building a venue at Fair Park.
     
  22. NegativeCreep

    NegativeCreep Member

    Jun 24, 2011
    OKC
    Club:
    DC United
    I get where people want everything downtown, but the fairgrounds isn't that far away, is HUGE, and would have more than enough parking. I'll take your word for it that it would be cheaper, which is also another plus. Overall, I don't know why anyone wouldn't pursue that. Sadly, with the "EVERYTHING NEEDS TO BE DOWNTOWN!" mantra the city seems to be under since I returned, I doubt it would happen.
     
  23. The Devil's Architect

    Feb 10, 2000
    The American Steppe
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    1) #1 Need is to get a stadium with Owner control of schedule and revenue, expansion is secondary.
    2) Orient the stadium N/S with an excavated bowl & a shallow shed roof will get the sun off of the east stand by 7:30 on the longest solar day of the year. Anything more and your roof is cost prohibitive to the project. See FC Dallas Stadium
    3) A difficult proposition. Most of the downtown land south of I-40 is currently proposed for dense residential development. As is apparently the land east of the current baseball stadium. Moving east across I-235 between Washington Park, 4th & the UP railyard gets you into some potentially very political issues with relocating residents and slumlords that own those "distressed" properties and reduction of the "affordable" housing stock. Maybe not.

    ???? As many "specifications" as possible?

    You're correct that the facility needs to be financially viable and have it able to host as many events as possible. I certainly don't want to make it "too multi-purpose" because you end up with strange sight lines and possibly a track. It should primarily be built for events that would fit on a FIFA Match Sized Pitch, and nothing more. Trying to attract all of the state football finals away from Stillwater or regional locations would be great.

    What are you defining as "mid-town"?
    Downtown Airpark and the parcel to the east would be ideal, except for limited traffic access (Western only)

    With enough money and political stroke, anything is possible
    It depends on what you're trying to build (Stadium/Parking/Practice/etc). You're not building Lucas Oil. The Sporting KC Park Stadium & adjacent park are right at 11 acres, but no parking on site, so you need another 5-10 acres. This is where the Downtown Air Park & adjacent site to the east would be ideal. There's close to 110 acres between the two parcels. The area could add practice fields as well as community development and would hopefully spur additional private development on the south side of the river.
    Utilities serving the stadium would require replacement. They were in active failure 10 years ago
    Historic preservation is great as long as what's being preserved is economically viable and physically sustainable. See Stage Center theater.
    [​IMG]

    There's only so much call for a tiny brutalist style theater with limited capacity, no real estate for expansion, not to mention that would require major change to the style of the structure. Further the mechanical systems were impossible to reconfigure or upgrade to better function for the building. Saving it would be financially impossible without some benefactor keeping it at a loss.

    I wouldn't assume that it would be the cheapest, simply because of the infrastructure

    Maybe $10-$20 million, no more.
    Don't
    That would be because the City is following the comprehensive plan that it adopted, which became a legally binding document, upon adoption by City Council. Not to mention, the City has invested a great deal in reinvesting in the core of the city, which has led to all those nice things we have now.
     
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  24. NegativeCreep

    NegativeCreep Member

    Jun 24, 2011
    OKC
    Club:
    DC United
    But did that comprehensive plan include some form of a stadium downtown? I thought I heard for something, maybe, being added to MAPS IV, but there weren't any items previously?

    And my post wasn't really about the city itself, but its citizens. Everyone seems to shun anything that isn't going on downtown. If they could see the city as a whole, the fairgrounds isn't a bad choice, in my humble opinion. But I have a feeling anything that isn't downtown will not go over well with some.
     
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  25. The Devil's Architect

    Feb 10, 2000
    The American Steppe
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There have been a couple of proposals for the Core to Shore, but nothing that I know of that has been adopted. Technically, MAPS IV doesn't exist anywhere other than message boards. There will still be some political pushback by the remaining anti-any taxation groups because of a perceived lack of transparency in project selection, current project progress, and perceived unnecessary "librul" projects like street car & light rail. The more people that move back into downtown & midtown, the better, because it will not only keep demand for MAPS project services and projects moving forward, but it will continue to outvote the anti-MAPS precincts (Village, Warr Acres, Moore & Rural OK County). I fully expect any MAPS IV to be a half & half of MAPS4KIDS / New Projects with the school projects being storm shelters for existing schools.

    Demographically OKC has changed a great deal over the last 20 years, but more than anything, dramatically over the last 5 as the generation that voted against any tax, regardless of benefit has either died our moved to Mid/Del, Village/Warr Acres or if they have money, Norman/Edmond or Deer Creek. But when they do that, they're largely marginalized because of the Edmond/Norman precincts in OK County have been fairly supportive of MAPS.

    The Fairgrounds isn't a bad geographic choice, not great either, but not bad. It is a terrible choice for public infrastructure. Nothing on the May Ave side of the Fairgrounds (Water/Sanitary Sewer/Storm Sewer/Gas/Electric) has been replaced in 4 decades and the paving is pretty poor. 30 or 40 million in infrastructure you have to build delays your stadium for 12-18 months, when you pay that premium for downtown/midtown land with everything that the City has already replaced.
     

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