The Big Switch: MLS Cup and Supporters Shield Ok everyone, I’ve never been too picky about MLS having a single table or complained too much about the playoff situation. But I been reading about a lot of remarks by top MLS player such as Clint Dempsey and others talking about how the MLS structure makes a lot of the season worthless which in turn makes it harder for players to give their all in each game when they know a lot of games don’t matter. Other fans in bigsoccer have pointed this out as well and I was wondering what others think about this or if they have solutions for it. My assumption is that if more MLS games are more meaningful the players will be hungrier for a win, so the quality and intensity of each game would improve. The goal here is to make each game meaningful so why not switch a few things around. Why not declare the team with the most points at the end of the regular the MLS season champions (they get the cup and that small star on the uniform). We still have playoffs but the playoffs will be for teams trying to win the supporters shield instead. I still think teams would fight hard to win the shield especially to win the spots in CONCACAF and other tournament, not to mention winning more silverware and team pride. Next year when Toronto FC joins we all know that either the east or west conference will be unbalanced. MLS has tried 2 tables they have tried 3 tables so why not go ahead and try a 1 table system for ones. Now there been mucho talk about single table back and forth between us fans but next year a single table might be a good thing. But even if we stay with multiple tables switching the support shield and the MLS cup trophy would work. With 13 teams though I wouldn’t mind seeing a few less teams making the playoffs (6 is a good number). Well I’ll be happy to hear thoughts/opinions on this to be honest not sure if this structure would really work but it seems a change needs to happen. Mod Note:Discussion continued from Part 1: https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=193553 ..
Re: The Big Switch: MLS Cup/Supporters Shield Until the schedules are balanced, MLS can't even approach this concept. I think monetary incentives for teams that win will definitely improve the effort given forth in these admittedly tough months to play (July-August humidity).
Re: The Big Switch: MLS Cup/Supporters Shield I started a somehwat stupid thread a few weeks back where I simply said MLSHQ has to officially sanction the Supporters Shield, award it a substantial monetary prize and make it one of the two equally important Championships in MLS, that and MLS Cup. That way you can keep a lot of teams in the playoffs and still recognize the regular season and crown its King. They should have done this years ago, whether everyone plays the same schedule or not. I know the system won't be perfect until they play a balanced schedule, but it would still be much better than the current system IMHO. If some team gets screwed out of the Supporters Shield 'cause of a tougher schedule, they can get it back it up by kicking said team's butt in the Cup playoffs. If that's as good as we can do now, than that's what we should do.
Re: The Big Switch: MLS Cup/Supporters Shield Thanks for the post and yea monetary incentives are a good thing indeed. Under the current structure I wouldn’t mind MLS HQ giving the Supporters Shield team a nicer cash bonus than the MLS Cup winner.
Re: The Big Switch: MLS Cup/Supporters Shield The problem with single table in terms of "meaningful" games is that here we are with 1/4 of the season remaining, and there're only 3 teams with a legitimate shot at the Supporter's Shield. Tonights match between Kansas City and New York would have no meaning were MLS a single table league. And yet under todays system KC vs NY has plenty of meaning since both teams are vieing for playoff spots. One of the best way for MLS to increase the number of meaningful games, IMHO, would be to go to a single elimination playoff format. That would put pressure on the better teams to play hard during the home stretch since they might otherwise lose homefield advantage. It would also be nice to see MLS cut down the number of playoff teams from 8 to 6, but I doubt that will ever happen.
Re: Official Single table/abolish the playoffs thread That's why you have BOTH a Supporters Shield AND a MLS Cup. Games would be meaningful at different levels at the same time. While the Supporters Shield, this year anyway, would only involve 2 or 3 teams, the race to make the playoffs would still include bascially the whole league, which is at least partially what it's intended for. You get both for the price of one.
Re: Official Single table/abolish the playoffs thread I agree they should only have 4-6 playoff spots in a league this size.. Just so we're clear, the other clubs WOULD have something to play for outside of MLS. please read this article: http://dcsundevil.blogspot.com/2006/...-open-cup.html if MLS clubs have other things to play for other than the MLS Cup or League Champion (currently called the Supporter's Shield) then things get interesting. With the MLS/FMF Interliga and a change in the CONCACAF Champions Cup tourney to a more UEFA-style Champions League both expected to happen in 2007 I think this would be a great time to limit the playoff spots since a club like Columbus or L.A. would have other fish to fry even if their chances at a playoff berth for the MLS Cup or League Champion award are dashed.
Re: Official Single table/abolish the playoffs thread The only way I would like to see an east west is with each having 18 teams in it. Now where did I put my smoke pipe.
Re: The Big Switch: MLS Cup/Supporters Shield If that was the main objective, then the other teams would have put up more competition for it in the first place (instead of knowing they only need to finish 4th-8th), and there may have been more teams with a chance. So? There are a lot of matches that would have more meaning with a single table. And it's not as simple as 'meaningful' or 'meaningless'. A single table increases the degree of importance for each match from the start of the season.
Re: Official Single table/abolish the playoffs thread I am all for single table because from Trecker's recent article, it would make sense to have it with Toronto coming in. I mean, com'on the games would matter, you would see improved play, and the attitude of the players would change dramatically. MLS needs to go in a new direction in 2007 or i'm done watching MLS (not likely but i'll watch less for sure). Single table is ATTRACTIVE FOOTBALL!!
Re: Official Single table/abolish the playoffs thread You're going to have to explain how a "single table" suddenly makes "games matter" and would "improve play"?
Re: Official Single table/abolish the playoffs thread dude, they will be jockeying for the championship....the ship...anyway, i just think that MLS needs some change, whether thats changing the league or whatever. Do you think MLS needs a change or is it fine with the way it is?
Re: Official Single table/abolish the playoffs thread How does "jockeying" for the championship - the Supporters Shield already exists" change depending on whether you list the standings as one "table" or as seperate divisions? You've offered up no real evidence or analysis other than "change is good"
Re: Official Single table/abolish the playoffs thread I agree MLS needs change. Without a doubt. To quote Shep Messing from last Running with the Bulls the playoff format is ridiculous. A single table would be better than what we have now perhaps. This would provide a great fight amonst the top clubs which is something lacking now. BUT what about those clubs in the middle or the bottom. For these clubs, once they realize they are out of contention will lack incentive and motivation. Some might relish the spoiler role when playing the better clubs granted, but what about matches amongst themselves? That could be ALOT of matches between teams out of contention. For me, this wouldn't be the most compelling watch. Where MLS has it dead wrong is that they make it WAY to soft. Winning isn't all that valuable in this league cause there always seems like there is time to make the playoffs. And without suffiicent rewards going to the top clubs, making it in is what clubs aspire to (see Dom Kinnears and Wynaldas commests a couple weeks ago on ESPN). There is nothing wrong with perfering a sinlge table though. If thats what you like, thats what you like.
Re: Official Single table/abolish the playoffs thread As fans, we don't really have to obey the official line, do we? It's all set up for us to make it up for ourselves anyway. First, if you want a single table, just make one, and put the games tied stat in the second column where it belongs, as so: GP W D L Pts GF GA +/- D.C. United 24 13 8 3 47 41-25 16 FC Dallas 24 13 3 8 42 37-29 8 Houston 25 9 9 7 36 36-33 3 Chivas USA 24 8 10 6 34 39-33 6 Chicago 24 8 8 8 32 32-30 2 Real Salt Lake 25 9 5 11 32 35-38 -3 Colorado 24 9 5 10 32 28-37 -9 New England 24 7 10 7 31 28-28 0 Kansas City 26 8 6 12 30 30-34 -4 New York 24 6 11 7 29 31-29 2 Los Angeles 25 8 5 12 29 24-28 -4 Columbus 25 5 8 12 23 18-35 -17 And then when the regular season is over, we crown our champion in our own heads, which looks to be either DC or FCD, and then the playoffs is our league cup and another trophy. See?
Re: Official Single table/abolish the playoffs thread I can't fix the font for the table here, sorry if it seems confusing.
Re: The Big Switch: MLS Cup/Supporters Shield -The single elimination creates random and meaningless games... LA went to MLS cup exactely for this reason last season. The playoffs cannot be played on a single game after long a 32-game season. MLS should reward the best teams more, and the playoffs should be played on several games. -Cutting down the number of playoff teams will eliminated the weakest teams ealier... MLS needs all the teams involved as long as possible to keep the attendance up.
Re: Official Single table/abolish the playoffs thread It's not a matter if we want to see the stats displayed on a single table. It's the hope that a single table will make the players take every game more seriously and give games more meaning for the fans who watch it. Fans are ignoring MLS, and they need to give the average fan something that the NFL, MLB, or NBA doesn't. A single table by itself might not solve the attendance problems of MLS, but it could be one in a number of major changes that might cause the average fan to say, "Hey that's an interesting idea, maybe I'll give MLS a chance." Again, you can have a single table AND have playoffs. Or you could run a league cup (MLS Cup) along side the regular season and that would help fill up the empty dates a single table would create with only a 24 game season next year. It would also allow the US Open Cup to hold games on weekend dates, which also might get more fans/attention and lead to more exciting games. Eliminating the playoffs and running the MLS Cup throughout the season would give clubs the ability to advertise the dates in advance and promote througout the season. It would also avoid competition with the World Series Playoffs that sucks so much attention away from MLS during our playoffs. The argument that the average fan won't understand the new format is a valid one, but one that the league can clear up with advertising and info in its game programs. I don't know where the answer lies, but MLS has got to do something to shake things up. If not, I think we'll continue to see the marginal crowds at most MLS matches continuing for years to come.
Re: The Big Switch: MLS Cup/Supporters Shield A teams record and attendance don't seem to be all that directly correlated in MLS. It's not a big issue.
Re: Official Single table/abolish the playoffs thread It's amazing that the powers that be can't recognize what we have now is pretty boring. We are in the last quarter of the season when these playoff races should be at their most exciting and there is literally not a single thread in General or News and Analysis discussing them. Yeah real riviting stuff. Major League Soccer is clueless on how to make the sport interesting. Hopefully someone, someday will come along with a vision for the game.
Re: Official Single table/abolish the playoffs thread The sad thing is all the league knows how to do is copy the format of other American pro sports leagues. In order for the league to go forward they are going to have to be a bit creative and risk by going outside the average america sports fans comfort zone.
Re: Official Single table/abolish the playoffs thread Rather than ditch the playoffs, I'd like to see MLS distinguish itself from other U.S. sports leagues by going to a split season. In a spring-fall schedule, a split season works well, since the league can take a break during tournament season in late May, June, early July. Or if the league ever goes to a fall-spring schedule, a split season will be required since its not practical to play in late December, January, early February in the U.S.
Re: Official Single table/abolish the playoffs thread First of all, once all MLS teams get their own stadiums, the season should immediately abandon the summer. When WC years come around, it completely destroys the MLS season. People seem to forget that a large part of the reason why a lot of MLS matches are slow and boring is because of the weather. Another thing that plagues MLS is its partnership with ESPN and ESPN's coverage. ESPN usually shows 1 match a week on Saturday. They show this game in the middle of the day: (1) the hottest time of the day. (2) sub-par t.v ratings as well as sub-par attendance...people are doing things on the weekends, espically during this time of the day. (3) ESPN is a MAJOR t.v. network, which definitely highlights the game that is being showed. What kind of feeling is a viewer going to get when he/she is watching this game which is being played at a snail's pace and then look into the stands to see more empty seats than filled ones, not a positive feeling, that's for sure. I'm really sorry, so far everything is off topic, but I'm feeling very passionate right now... In regards to the tables, they need to be combined into one and schedule each team to play each team home and away. With 13 teams next season, that would make a total of 26 season matches a season for each club. I don't think that the popularity with MLS (not soccer) in america is at a high enough level where games can be scheduled mid-week and receive high enough attendances. So if there were no season games played mid-week, then we would be looking at a season that would be around 5 months long and a league champion would be crowned. Then perhaps once the league is back to even numbers the playoff system (MLS cup) would be turned into a more traditional domestic cup where all teams participate and then a domestic cup champion would be crowned. The league can not be perfected all in one season, it would take several seasons to iron out all of the wrinkles, which includes the right amount of teams for a lengthy enough season as well as an even amount of teams for a proper domestic cup (the new mls cup and eventually ditch the old).
Re: Official Single table/abolish the playoffs thread Great idea, Rocket. I give you too much rep, but I will repay you ASAP. This could also give the country a chance to hype the USOC during the summer months!
Re: Official Single table/abolish the playoffs thread Please list which months the league should play league games during. Also and indication of how many games should be in the season would be nice so that we can see how many games per month you expect teams to play. Thanks.