Official DC United vs The Chicago Fire PRE Match Thread

Discussion in 'D.C. United' started by Knave, Jul 28, 2002.

  1. Knave

    Knave Member+

    May 25, 1999
    <center>... always look on the bright side of life ...

    What utter nonsense! Up next on the DC United misery tour ...

    DC United at The Chicago Fire
    ... discuss ...

    No Flames
    No Trolls

    No Goals
    No Wins
    No Playoffs
    No Hope


    I'm bitter. It's been a tough night ...

  2. Jose L. Couso

    Jose L. Couso New Member

    Jul 31, 2000
    Arlington, VA
    Just when you thought it was over...

    DC United-1
    Chicago Fire-0
  3. Cweedchop

    Cweedchop Member+

    Mar 6, 2000
    Ellicott City, Md

    Jose, are you watching the same team I've been watching lately?

    Chicago 3
    United 0
  4. CHICO13

    CHICO13 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 4, 2001
    SECTION 135
    The Strongest La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Well, considering Lassiter will probably be working at Al's used car lot Monday morning, we'll have to see what Q2 and Curtis can do together. Sheesh, like playing in Naperville aint bad enough. :rolleyes:
  5. ursula

    ursula Member

    Feb 21, 1999
    Republic of Cascadia
    Well it will be interesting to see what sort of formation/lineup Ray goes with since we played so well (I'm not being sarcastic here) with the 352 vs the Revs. The Fire of course have a much better offense than NE, but one can't mistake them for Brazil. We have shut them out twice this year after all. But now Pope seems ready to get back into the game which seems to create a situation where one normal starting defender sits. Here's what I'd like, at least for the next five minutes:


    Olsen will sub for Curtis probably, maybe Villegas. Williams can sub for McKinley. In this formation, Nelsen plays very deep, practically alongside Pope, giving Ivan the Terrible license to look forward more (which is why I have him starting over Wee One).

    My guess though is that either Williams will start, probably for Nelsen in the above lineup or we will go 442, but I just don't like a 442 with our defenders- Mckinley is the only real left back in that formation and he's too slow getting back and Pope and Prideaux are a bad combo in central defense.

    BTW, I also really likes Reyes and Convey on the same side (and McKinley and Etch go to the left also). However this brings up a problem which is a big reason why we didn't score vs the Revs: with those two guys on the same side our offense is so left sided that the opposition can focus it's defense there. This was why vs NE Villegas, Alegria, and even Williams had fairly wide open shots on the right side, the weak side of the NE defense. In the NE game I was actually thinking of early on in the 99 season when we were having problems scoring too. Back then, the offense tilted right towards Olsen who was much more creative than his opposite winger, the rookies Jason Moore or Otero or Brian Kamler. Neither of those three were good at carrying the ball forward and the opposition could favor our right side. When we traded Kamler for Maessner we then had a balanced offense and another championship. I presume that when Olsen moves back to right wing our offense will get more potent regardless of our forward situation.
  6. Jose L. Couso

    Jose L. Couso New Member

    Jul 31, 2000
    Arlington, VA
    Yes I have.

    IMHO DC United outplayed both Columbus & New England.

    The reason DC United has had problems scoring beside the usual suspects, is that in the last two games both Columbus & New England scored first and bunkered.

    If DC United were as bad as some people are saying, then those teams would not be bunkering but would be going all out and trying to score more goals.

    The fact remains that DC United has arguably the best defense in the whole MLS, teams are not going to be scoring to many goals against them, so they will take one goal, and hope they can score another one on a counter.

    DC United has played entertaining and fluid soccer, it is just a matter of time before they get some results.

    With Ben Olsen back more scoring opportunities will become available. With Moreno coming back in two weeks (he will only miss the Chicago game hopefully) the offense will be much more dangerous. And with Gazza coming on board, more goal scoring opportunities will occur.

    So I think it is a matter of time before the floodgates will open!

    On the playoff front, Columbus is only 5 points ahead of DC United, but DC United has a game in hand. Another factor to consider is that Columbus has gotten 10 points out of their total 25 against DC United. Which means that they have only gotten 15 against the rest of MLS. Columbus does not play DC United again, so their point gathering is going to be a little harder.

    The glass is half full.
  7. luvsuperbobby15

    luvsuperbobby15 New Member

    Mar 28, 2002
    los angeles, CA
    just when you thought it was over, you were right, it is over.
    chicago: 3 (razov,wolff, and curtin)
    dc: 1 (convey or nelsen) if we are lucky enough to score a goal...
  8. Barbara

    Barbara BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 29, 2000
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So you're saying that teams only bunker against good teams? That doesn't make any sense.

    You could argue this but you'd be wrong. We have the 5th best defense in the league if you look at goals against for the season. That puts us arguably smack in the middle of the whole MLS.

    Sometimes. Sometimes not. Most times not, I think.

    From your fingers to god's ears, Jose. I hope you're right.
  9. Jose L. Couso

    Jose L. Couso New Member

    Jul 31, 2000
    Arlington, VA
    I stand corrected!

    I hope I am right too!

    I am even going to pray and I am not a religious man!
  10. Cweedchop

    Cweedchop Member+

    Mar 6, 2000
    Ellicott City, Md

    I love the optimism my friend and at a time like this we need fans like you to pull us through these dreadful times..

    You definitely are a glass half full kind of dude and that is a definite thumbs up..

    My only point of contention is the ignoring of facts in front of our eyes..

    Jose, we've been arguably outplaying teams on the field for the better part of the last 3 seasons but the FACT remains that in that 3 year period, we are the WORST team in MLS record wise..

    The bottom line here is this team has lost it's swagger and edge and other teams exploit our serious lack of conviction when we fall behind.. If I was an opposing team and got the lead on United, I wouldn't worry one bit because United couldn't hit water if they fell out of a boat right now.. They are a laughingstock of the league right now.. EVERY team knows that all they have to do is get a lead on this team and the game is essentially over.. Confidence is everything in this game (just ask the USA team that got off to a great start at the WC about how much confidence does for a team psyche) and United keeps sinking lower and lower with each agonizing defeat..

    Again, please keep up the good morale because it is needed in the face of my dire negativity...
  11. Cweedchop

    Cweedchop Member+

    Mar 6, 2000
    Ellicott City, Md
    Does anyone know if Convey will be available for Wednesday's game?

    The U-20 team is called in this weekend and Convey is expected to run the show from central midfield..

    My thought is that his club team needs him now more than ever moreso than some dopey tournament..

  12. Footer Phooter

    Jul 23, 2000
    Falls Church, VA
    I heard during the games last night, that most of the MLS guys won't be on that trip. Sorry I can't do better than that.
  13. Jose L. Couso

    Jose L. Couso New Member

    Jul 31, 2000
    Arlington, VA


    Very true.

    I am not sure that they are "the laughingstock of the league right now" (although I suppose in sornum's eyes they are).

    "Confidence..."-Very very true.

    I think Gazza will put some swagger into DC United. I would safely venture to say that most MLS teams would hate to play DC United in the playoffs (I still think they will make the playoffs!). Specially with a healthy Moreno, a healthy Ben, and an acclimated Quintanilla, etc.

    I would say your are more pragmatic (realistic if you will), albeit frustrated (as most DC United fans are), and not neccessarily negative (now sornum I would call negative!).
  14. Sachin

    Sachin New Member

    Jan 14, 2000
    La Norte
    DC United
    We fucking suck.

    Does it really matter?

  15. Arsonists

    Arsonists New Member

    Jan 25, 2000
    Banks of Plum Creek
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United Arab Emirates

    Anything can happen on our little pitch. If you score first we will have a hard time.

    It is not on T.V. so I will leave your flag at home.
  16. DigitalTron

    DigitalTron New Member

    Apr 4, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    I wholeheartedly agree. I've been saying for almost the entire year that with Pope, Prideaux and Reyes we have one of the most talented back lines in MLS. I have been pleasantly surprised how well and quickly Nelsen has progressed this season. I've always been a Rimando fan, and never really was much of a fan of Ammann (too many soft goals). It took a while for Reyes to get a feel for the refereeing in MLS, Pope has been on WC duty, and we've usually been pressed into playing McKinley in a 4 man back line. Now that everyone has adjusted to a 3 man back line of Prideaux Pope and Reyes (not necessarily in any particular order) we hvae 3 talented and fast guys. All can do the job. It's no accident that teams have been scoring 1 or 0 goals against us lately, we're finally gelling. The Dallas Burn gelled earlier, and now are burning up MLS (pun intended).

    Our attack has consisted of Conteh, Curtis, Lassiter and a out of position midfielders. The forwards we have put on the field are BY FAR the worst strike force in MLS. When Moreno plays we do just fine. If/when we have Moreno, Santino and Eliseo in a rotation, I think we'll see more goals.

    Last season we scored plenty, but we had no defenders (except sometimes Pope and Kamler). We outplayed the opposition and usually scored enough to win, but gave up soft and late goals to snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory. Anyone witnessing our defense in its present state should be in awe. It's as good as last season's Chicago Fire defense, and it's just beginning to get in rythem. Our midfield is subpar right now, but once Olsen returns it should be one of the best in MLS. If we add Gazza, so much the better.

    But, Santino is out for the year, Moreno is usually injured, and Olsen will likely not be match fit this regular season. If we make the playoffs we'll lose because of the two away games. But, we're in position for a second season like the Miami Fusion had. All we need is another forward, one that is good in the air, and that's not Ludwig.

  17. HalaMadrid

    HalaMadrid Member

    Apr 9, 1999
    There are still pieces of that flag left?
  18. GersMan

    GersMan Member

    May 11, 2000
    Actually, I think there are a lot of reasons to be optimistic.

    1) A very good new signing. This guy ran out of gas in the 2nd half, but prior to that he was running well, creating chances and linking up with his new teammates. I can't pronounce his name, but he is a good addition to the offense.

    2) Before he wore out, I was thinking Olsen looked like he hadn't missed a match. He REALLY added something to this team.

    3) All of the above are a big help for Bobby Convey, who continues to develop. The three of them make a really nice combination, worth paying to watch.

    4) The defense looked solid, and that was without Eddie Pope.

    Now granted, Roy Lassiter is a disaster. More worrisome to me is the way Marco repeatedly gave the ball away and otherwise ended some good-looking buildups. Some of the situations called out for him to shoot on goal and he just wouldn't, couldn't, do it. Gazza in that position, well there's a lot of potential there.

    I'm not as down on Williams and Mckinley as some of you. But they need to remain in their roles. You can't depend on them for offense and to the extent we do, they will look bad. Yes, Villegas had problems finishing, but I still think he adds a lot in terms of being lively.

    If only we had Quaranta and Moreno back, the offense, to me, could look quite good. That will happen,and if we get Gazza, well, we could be pretty decent.
  19. Th4119

    Th4119 Member

    Jul 26, 2001
    Annandale, VA
    Eddie Pope Helps on Defense?

    In 7 games that Eddie has started for United on defense, our goals against average is 1.57 with 1 shutout.

    In 12 games that Eddie has not started for United on defense, our goals against average is 1.33 with 3 shutouts.

  20. John_Harkes_6

    John_Harkes_6 New Member

    Mar 29, 2000
    Baltimore, MD.
    Re: Eddie Pope Helps on Defense?

    Can I have a cross-correlation to how many of those games featured Lazy and McKinley?
  21. ursula

    ursula Member

    Feb 21, 1999
    Republic of Cascadia
    Re: Eddie Pope Helps on Defense?

    I'd also like to se how many games Pope and Prideaux have started together in central defense as my thoughts say that they are a bad combo. Then add Lazy and McKinley to the defensive mix as JH6 says... Look, we have a very good defense. The problems that we have are twofold:

    1) You have to have the right combination of players out there to make it work. For instance, Nelsen is the only organizer type, Prideaux and Reyes are best when they are man marking first and foremost, McKinley is best when he is not the last line of defense, etc. This leads into the second problem,

    2) We are slightly lacking in depth. We need one or two decent subs for times when injuries and call-ups occur. I think we can pick up those players in next year's draft.

    Overall our defense is worlds better than the past two year's and credit goes to Hudson for reorganizing it.

    Pope is not a problem, just how he's been used at times. Now that Nelsen has "come of age" there's no reason to play Pope and Prideaux together.
  22. Winoman

    Winoman Drinkin' Wine Spo-De-O-De!

    Jul 26, 2000
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm pretty much in agreement with you gersman. But regarding the last paragraph (the if's....), I need to remind you that if a frog had wings, it wouldn't bump it's a$$ every time it jumps.

  23. JAnderson14

    JAnderson14 New Member

    Oct 5, 2000
    Crofton, MD

    It's fun to say.

    Exactly. Nelsen has earned his spot in the starting XI. If we play a back 4, Prideaux should move to left back. If we go with 3, then we have tough decisions to make.


    If Chicago plays like they did in the first half against the metros, we're in trouble. As good as our defense is, we just aren't enough of a threat to worry them defensively. One plus is that it is easier to defend on their smaller field. We played very well in all facets of the game, save finishing, against the Revs.

    I'd like to see the same formation again, except with Curtis in for Lassiter. McKinley wasn't awful for once, and who knows? We might actually manage a goal somehow.
  24. scarshins

    scarshins Member

    Jun 13, 2000
    All the statistics of goals- against and such aren't really worth anything. Our defense seems to be good, statistically, because Ray Hudson has them playing a more defensive style especially on the road. In fact most teams are now playing more practical soccer, playing conservatively on the road, bunkering later in the game when they have a lead- like NE just did.
    But I do think we played well against NE. Almost everything was there, except our goalscorers, you can find them going in and out of the hospital.
  25. -cman-

    -cman- New Member

    Apr 2, 2001
    Clinton, Iowa
    Ouch. You guys are at a low ebb. Thanks for the vote of confidence in Jimmy though. That would be two goals in two games to make his career total ... 2.

    And now (as they say in the UK) for something completely different.

    From the folks at Paul Gascoigne's greatest moments. And if that wasn't enough,even more Gazza moments.

    Seriously. These will have you rolling. Best of luck to you lot. See you Wendesday.

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