Discussion in 'San Jose Earthquakes' started by IBleedTeal, Jul 1, 2005.
Being a San Jose soccer fan, do you miss them?
I probably won't make any friends writing this, but... I have never seen an American women's soccer game at the college or pro level that was in any way, shape or form memorable. Even the legendary World Cup game at the Rose Bowl was really a bad, boring game that would have been mocked for its dreariness had it been men rather than women. Imho.
There are many, many great women players who deserve better. But there's just not enough interest to have a national women's professional soccer league at the level of play that they were playing.
The real crime is that in US colleges, the women play NCAA rules, instead of international rules. So while the US had a head start in women's soccer with the Title IX golden generation, we've lost it to Europeans who develop female players who play real soccer, under real soccer rules.
A positive contribution to bigsoccer... although...
Disagree on the first--that game despite the yawner--really put the women on the map--otherwise the Brazil game earlier that week was the one that was hard fought.
Split on the second paragraph--there are some players who were starting to develop their play got lost in the shuffle when the WUSA folded. They deserve better where they can play almost every week. The people are there--I just think it wasn't branded to include everyone.
Agree on the last--the college game is too tweaked based on the rules. When the women played last year before the Quakes-Canada match--yes that one where the game was stopped early, it was good to see some semblance of the game, but the rotating subs really was a turn off for me.
If there's a women's league (1) it would probably have to be under the banner of MLS and/or (2) it would have to be regionalized to cut down on travel costs. Forget having a team in San Jose or San Diego--better to streamline the product and leave it in the east coast (Boston, NY, Philly, DC, Carolina, Atlanta, maybe Columbus and one more nearby location) where the cities are closer.
If I didn't hand out the points to you the other day, I'd hand you some more green for that thought--fairly said though , However I'm taking the different road.
It only means free days on the calendar. Fuel costs a lot these days driving back and forth!
I'd love for the women to succeed, but imho, the WUSA was not quality soccer. Neither is NCAA Women's soccer, in spite of having many, many great players. OTOH, some high-level girls soccer I've seen is vastly more entertaining than the WUSA was.
Neither was Earthquakes (uh, Clash) soccer much good for the first 5 years... I supported them for one reason only -- because I support US soccer. However, MLS has a pretty darn good product these days. Not one of the world's great leagues, but highly entertaining and capable of producing some really great games and wonderful players.
(You don't have to have the world's best quality in order to have really high quality. Look at NCAA basketball -- men's and women's. It's not the world's best by any means, but it's far more entertaining than the NBA. In this sense, US soccer leagues -- men's and women's -- have the potential to be great if we continue to develop players and coaches and referees.)
I agree with you Nap, the women's game should have high-level regional leagues -- the way the A-League used to be organized. If and when the time is right, a national league will emerge.
While I miss the Rays (players through front office), very, very deeply, the league itself died a neccessary death. I hope something leaner, meaner, and more passionate comes out of this with smaller more realistic goals.
Having been at that game in person, I'd say that the temperature had a lot to do with the pace on that hot afternoon. I hear ya, but I slighty disagree. If it had been Brazil/Italy (as it was 5 years before), it'd have gotten the s*** label it deserved. However, say the US men were playing in that final in the Rose Bowl. It'd been the greatest game in US soccer history. They caught lightning in a bottle and the fact it was the US was as big a factor if not more than it was about being the women. Honestly, if it wasn't the US in this final, most folks in this country wouldn't have given a damn. The 2003 WWC final showed that.
Obviously I follow women's soccer a little more than the average guy. No one talks about the game itself anyway. It's all about the penalty kicks.
There is, just not at the levels WUSA was shooting for.
Couldn't agree with you more!!! I just watched the Euro 2005 tourny. The next few years are going to be interesting ones.
There already are.
It's funny, I run into soccer fans all the time now that won't come see a Quakes game cuz they think MLS is too slow, hard to watch, is a crap league, yada, yada, yada. F***ing eurosnob motherf***ers. At least you're not making that general argument.
No worries about losing me as a friend.
Anyone who makes that argument against MLS these days just hasn't given it a chance. I watched some of that second-tier Euro cup this year (UEFA Cup?), and it had nothing on MLS.
I would love to see WUSA succeed, but I don't think its going to happen
after I watched the WWC 99 I argued with so many people that womens soccer is just as entertaining as mens, but now that i'm older, it doesn't compare
i went to a match in DC.. it was the Freedom vs. someone else?? and i got to slap the players hands as they came out.. after that, I was bored out of my mind
It's not just the women in college who play by NCAA rules, its the men also, let's be fair about that.
But, by charter, the NCAA isn't in the soccer player development business.
And from what I understand, it's the lower division colleges that are blocking the proposed rule changes to bring the college game (men and women) more in line with the international game.
I've seen the WNT many times and their passion, teamwork and passing rivals most men's teams I've seen over the years.
Sure, the pace isn't as fast, but, enjoyable football none the less.
Were you at any of the NCAA Final games at Spartan a few years ago? Pretty darn entertaining, I'd say.
I agree with the comments about WUSA. Bit off a little more than they could chew (I 'd heard the CyberRays were offered a full year at Buck Shaw stadium for the same price as one night at Spartan!).
I would like to see a women's league come back in one way, shape or form.
Am I the only one who thinks WUSA and womens soccer in general is a complete bore?!
In a word, yes.
Yes. But the men, for better or worse, have so many more options than the women when they want to develop beyond NCAA to a higher level -- Bradenton, P-40 or whatever it's called these days, Europe & South America, and more amateur opportunities. If you ever see some of the local "major league' division amateur matches, you'll see some pretty interesting ball being played.
btw, I level the exact same criticism at the NCAA for men.
But in both cases, there are a lot of players who come out of the NCAA system as very good players. Just not as many, and not as good as they should be.
What's the difference between NCAA rules and FIFA rules?
It is the first time, I hear about this...
i thought WUSA was boring, but not WC
i dont think it is nearly as entertaining as mens though
The main difference is substitutions--there is no limit on the number of substitions, and a player who leaves the game can re-enter the game once.
NCAA has nearly unlimited substitution. You can leave the game and come back. Several times.
So the game ends up being high-pressure with no semblance of pacing, plus a radically different defensive strategy. Which results, of course, in a radically different (and much crappier) attacking strategy.
Alexi, you should come with me to see the University of San Francisco play some this fall. Some of my gang goes to these games and we play a little game. We count out loud the number of touches a team gets before they lose the ball. It rarely gets over 2. We end up laughing til we cry, and it really tics off the parents.
It would make a great drinking game.
btw, USF was nationally ranked last year.
Thank you, Noah, Barrett!
Going to an USF game sounds like a good idea. With after-party at Kezar, of course
no stoppage time; continous clock counting down from 45...
And worse...for televised championship matches...a TV time out built into each half!
This is no longer true. If you sub out, I don't think you can return during that half. The mass substitutions that are sometimes seen, don't really happen during NCAA tournament play as teams tend to only play their top 11-15 players.
And how many folks are out running to watch the college summer wood bat leagues? The WPSL/W-League and MPSL/PDL are just summer college leagues.
The WPSL/W-League is not a replacement for the WUSA. The pre-WUSA W-League did have some paid players, but the current setup of the W-League/WPSL is completely built around keeping college players in action.
One thing I really miss are the playoffs. There were 9 post season games in WUSA history. 8 of them were absolutely fantastic games.
As far as memorable women's game. I'd have to say that the Germany/Sweden WC03 final is one of the most riveting/greatest games I've ever seen in person.
And the WC99 Quarterfinal doubleheader in Landover, Maryland featuring the epic 4-3 win by Brazil over Nigeria (with Sissi's incredible free kick golazo) followed by the U.S.'s 3-2 squeaker over Germany (with Brandi scoring for both teams) to one of the three or four greatest soccer events I've ever witnessed.
Great soccer is great soccer.
I think you're right. If you sub out, you're out for the half. You can re-enter, but only at the beginning of the 2nd half, then again, once you sub out in the 2nd half you're done. It's been about 5 years since I've worked an NCAA match, but that sounds right IIRC.
And i've never seen 22 women play great soccer.
Even USA v. Brazil in the WWC at Stanford sucked.