NISA (New NASL-allied D3 league) Mega-Thread

Discussion in 'NASL' started by oneeyedfool, Jun 6, 2017.

  1. Phenix

    Phenix Member+

    D.C. United
    Oct 5, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Which is totally subjective.

    I could open up a mom and pop coffeehouse and compete with Peets Coffee and Starbucks next to me, but there's a 50/50 chance the start up business would remain consistently successful.
     
  2. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    There are tons of successful independent coffee shops in the vicinity of a Starbucks or Peet’s. Just like my dining options aren’t limited to Chili’s.
     
  3. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    Portland could totally support more clubs, but the clubs would have to differentiate themselves from the Timbers. They can’t just be “we play soccer in Portland”, but “we are a Portland soccer club that strongly opposes fascists” is going to be able to carve out a following. That approach wouldn’t work everywhere, but every place has some set of values above and beyond geographic proximity.
     
  4. Phenix

    Phenix Member+

    D.C. United
    Oct 5, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sure, and several independent businesses fail, it's not always rosy-tinted.

    With soccer, you're dealing with America's arguably fifth most popular sport and even smaller footprint engrained in society. Correlation and causation effect. Supply and demand.

    A second or third professional soccer team in Portland won't draw sponsors and television coverage as Timbers/Thorns/Trailbrazers does. Where are the infrastructure available in the area for a lower division team? Good luck asking for public money (to be frank, this is why Portland Beavers were relocated, because a new ballpark wasn't feasible in the area)

    Also, Timbers averaged a mere-7K in the lower divisions, now that they became The Club, there are more fans on the waiting list for season ticket dibs. Ones that won't accept anything below, so good luck trying to gather the rather minuscule audience there that want to digest lower division soccer.

    Portland isn't London or San Paulo.
     
  5. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    Major companies fail, too. Maybe we should just never try.

    You’re conflating MLS with soccer, which is exactly the problem. Soccer is the third most played sport among teenagers, the potential audience is huge. Because MLS teams have been piss poor at connecting with major markets doesn’t mean that soccer isn’t huge in cities like Chicago, or Houston, or Dallas.
    Why would they have to draw the amount of sponsors or coverage? The costs are lower. The market is different, you would seek out different opportunities.
    How is Portland unique here? Fresno, Providence, and Des Moines - places without major league teams - all have this problem. It’s solvable and plenty of other clubs in other cities have found creative places to play while they build up their stadium plan.
    Again, if you just present yourself as a soccer team, definitely you will struggle to find an audience. If you have an identity, you might tap into a community.
    7,000 is a huge crowd for lower leagues, anyway. We’ve pretty much found that 5k is sustainable for D2 and 3k would be plenty for D3.
    And it shouldn’t try to be. It’s Portland. And a club that starts there would be wise to remember that.
     
  6. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'd count the Thorns as a second professional club even though they have the same owners.

    Is there a market in the Portland area for an orfentik fan owned club? I've read a few comments over the years from people in the area who are put off by the Timbers fans shenanigans.

    Btw, Salem which is an hour away but in the same CSA had a USL club from 1995-2009. Vancouver WA could also host a club.
     
  7. Phenix

    Phenix Member+

    D.C. United
    Oct 5, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How many of them play other extracurricular sports and not just soccer though?

    Show me where I disputed that.

    I mean this is a false equivalency. Portland already has a professional soccer team unlike those you mentioned above. I never once mentioned that professional soccer doesn't work in mid-market cities like Fresno, Providence and Des Moines.

    Every stadium plan requires community and local government support. Yes, public funds are used, just as public funds were used in any new modern boutique stadium. Others levitate that problem by offering new retail, housing, office complexes to offset public funding. Also taking to account the years worth of renovating and upgrading the stadium, additional expenses.

    And it all depends on a case by case basis. Some with their business model might be consistently successful, some might fail.
     
    An Unpaved Road repped this.
  8. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  9. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    I was specifically using Houston, Dallas, and Chicago and I didn’t say all. In fact, I have often praised Atlanta United all over this website for how they successfully tapped into the essence of being Atlantan. More than the Hawks or even really the Falcons, I’d say.
    Same with LAFC and it sure looks like Austin may as well.
    But my point with Houston and Dallas and Chicago is that soccer is huge in these cities. I think the Metroplex could probably support at least 4 (more) pro teams, but not just any (and this is the important part) 4 teams. They need appeal to where and who they are: Fort Worth is not Dallas, Dallas is not Denton, Denton is not Arlington, etc.

    That MLS did such a poor job in these cities leaves an enormous opportunity for others try to build these sorts of clubs. It may or may not happen with Chicago House AC, but people like their teams represent who they are, which is only partially explained by where they’re from. And while I doubt any other team in Atlanta or Cincinnati will gather much of a following, if clubs in some of the cities I mentioned gain momentum, generate a modest, loyal following: Chattanooga-sized, Madison-sized, (dare to dream) Detroit sized, and then I think that you could see similar situations in other cities: Philadelphia, Boston, Denver, etc. Not competing with the MLS teams, just representing their specific communities.
     
  10. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    Yeah, I tend to agree with this. Pretty long route between just participating in a youth sport as one of many activities/interests and following a lower level soccer club as a lifestyle.
     
  11. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    Minor league baseball isn’t a lifestyle though either and it’s everywhere. The reason I brought up youth sports is familiarity and its ubiquity among families. MiLB is popular because it’s cheap family activity that the kids understand because they play little league and the parents, who also identify with the game because they played as kids, can relax and drink beer. Now we’ve finally got a critical mass of parents who played soccer growing up. Unlike MiLB, though, soccer has supporter culture which, trust me, resonates with parents who feel like they can never do the fun things that they used to do before kids.

    Soccer is probably the most popular adult rec sport, too. Definitely the most popular adult team sport.

    I just don’t think hockey is a generally more popular sport in this country than soccer, despite the NHL being more popular than MLS. It’s why using MLS’s popularity is the wrong metric for what the market is.
     
  12. Phenix

    Phenix Member+

    D.C. United
    Oct 5, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    NHL is a 103 year old league though. The history gap between MLS and NHL is large.

    Also, it depends on what kind of metrics you think NHL is more popular than MLS. MLS ranks third among the top five sports leagues in average attendance per game.

    In other metrics, Seattle Kraken ownership group paid a $650 million expansion fee. That's obviously more than David Tepper paid.

    NHL also has a more robust broadcast contract than MLS in terms of revenue, while MLS is stuck with the 2015 contract that is going to expire next year. The incremental growth of MLS has been immense these past 20 years, compared to the century-long growth of the NHL.

    I think NHL's TV approach is similar to MLS, select matches on OTA network/sports network while team matches depends on the local TV deals and RSN's. Ratings is about the same.

    Of course Nashville SC is the new kid on the block, compared to other major sports teams in the area like the Preds and Titans. But the 59,000 in attendance for the Atlanta-Nashville game seems like Nashville is hungry for professional soccer - if that's any indictment that big markets are a wrong metric for MLS to use.
     
  13. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    Soccer’s popularity is fractured here so it’s hard to gauge overall love of the sport. I think generally the U.S. likes it more as an occasional spectacle than a week to week love of the club game.
     
    Phenix repped this.
  14. Phenix

    Phenix Member+

    D.C. United
    Oct 5, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    (let's get back on topic)

    So Chicago House AC, Plumbing and Heating released their season ticket pricing, and it's quite expensive for a Division 3 team. Compare that to the Chicago Red Stars, a NWSL team that charges similar pricing.

    [​IMG]



    Just today, the primary owner bailed out before the team could ever kick a ball and was replaced by the managing partner of the team who is also New Amsterdam FC owner's...wife.

    Conflict of interests? Perhaps.

    Is it ********ing hilarious? Yes.

    Not ideal? Yes.
     

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