Dued, I am so shocked after I saw the result. I turned the TV off after Indy was down 0-21. I thought it was gonna be a blow out. At that point Tampa D was completely dominating.
Lost in the discussion is the LAME "Leaping" penalty on Rice when Indy missed its first try at the game winning field goal. Al Michaels pointed out that the rule states: "if the player lands more than one yard behind the line of scrimmage and comes down onto another player" it is an unsportsman-like conduct penalty (15 yard personal foul) John Madden counterpoints: "I understand the rule, but the spirit of the rule is so that players dont propel themselves upwards off of their team mates. Rice jumped up on his own, its almost impossible not to land on or bump into someone coming down on a block attempt". I gotta go with Madden here. Tampa should have had the ball on their own 37 with 3:15 left in OT. Virtually guaranteeing either a Tampa win or a tie. Pretty poor officiating at a very crutial point in the game if you ask me.
I'm guilty, I turned the game off with four minutes left thinking to myself, great yet another Monday night blowout.
Me too, and I live in Indy. Had a meeting just now and half the people in it were the same. 35-14 with 4 minutes to play? Right, thats going to happen.
I understand why you would go with Madden here, but tell me, how do you feel about when Tupa tripped over Dominic Rhodes giving the Bucs another 4 downs to win the game. Bottom line.......The Colts capitalized on the officials mistake and the Bucs did not. Great win for Indy. I'm actually more irked at your comment than I'm showing. Please don't forget what transpired the last 4 minutes of the game. Great game.........Go Colts!!!!!!!!!!1
They both were crappy calls. Don't get me wrong, I'm no Bucs fan or Indy fan. Sure I'd rather see Indy lose just cause I'm a Chiefs fan and any AFC loss is good for KC, but that didnt have anything to do with my opinion. You on the other hand are obviously a Colts fan and will be biased on the topic. But I did make a point to mention (in a part you didn't quote) that the refs screwed up many calls. Not just this one. But just as in any game there are fouls that are missed and that are called that shouldnt. The running into the kicker call was horrible. But even at that stage it didn't necessarily determine the outcome of the game. The reason I disagree with the call is for two main reasons: 1) Rice didnt use his arms to propel himself upward. He jumped on his own. Moreso, if the rule states you can't come down on top of another player. Rice bumped another player and came down on his own feet. So he didn't really break the rule from the replay I saw. 2) The spirit of the rule must always be taken into account. I'm always of the opinion that if it doesn't affect a play, dont throw the flag. This play is very similar to the pass interference on an overthrown ball. Many times they still let the penalty stand even when the ball was totally uncatchable, when in fact they should just pick up their flag and call no penalty. Had Tampa blocked the kick, it would make more sense. But the kick went away fine, Vanderjagt just plain missed it. Then he gets another change on a bogus flag. I get so sick of all the times NFL refs don't use common sense in making a call. Making a nit picky call to prove a point is fine in the first quarter, but that ref decided the outcome of the game when he didnt need to, and shouldnt have.
We get two Sunday games... a midday one (6pm here) and an afternoon one (9pm here)... we get them directly from CBS or FOX (as in same comentary, camera work), but the presenters are from Sky Sports (a sports channel of British TV titan "Sky" - owned by Rupert Murdoch)... one's a black American called Kevin Cadle and the others a white guy from England called Nick Halling. Sometimes they have good guests (The Nigerian Nightmare was on a few weeks back), and they are great at keeping up to date with other matches. Unfortunately, we don't get Monday Night Football, but we do get every minute of every game from the playoffs and the Superbowl & Pro Bowl. There is also a weekly roundup show called "NFL Weekly" which is an hour long. Outside of the Sunday games and NFL Weekly, though... there is no coverage of the NFL at all (the Superbowl winners get a mention on some news channels the day after they win it, but only 10 odd seconds). The fanbase here is small, but majoritavely (sp?) knowledgable and very dedicated. I hope to God we get a good chunk of the Colts match on NFL Weekly this week! Oh, another channel, NASN (a ripoff of ESPN) shows some of the daily shows like "NFL Live!" and also covers live college football matches - but aftewr you get satellite you have to seperately subscribe for it, and it's only new... still, I'm planning on getting it by Christmas
That's not why I support the Packers. They've got such an interesting team history, Favre is a legend, they are the NFLs only community-owned team, they were one of the main NFL teams I heard the name of growing up (them, the Raiders & the Dolphins, and it'll be a warm day in Ireland before I support those teams!) and probbly some more reasons I can't remember right now
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/6702086 Stupid rule.........right call. So I guess the refs were NOT wrong afterall. Now....your argument is that it was a horrible call, shouldn't have been made even though it's a rule. The ref saw an infraction, he called it, end of story. However stupid the rule it might be, end of story. Again..... I ask you, please don't forget what transpired in the last 4 minutes of the game.
Favre didn't become good until 95. He was arguably best QB in NFL in 96 97 when they made it to superbowl. That's about it. He struggled in 98 and hasn't been the same since Mike Holmgren left town in 98. He was terrible in 99 and average since. He was very good for 3 years and now he is extremely overrated and overhyped. He is hardly a legend. I don't see how a team being owned by the government is special. You must like communism or something.
I was waiting for you to pull that story out. 1) All leagues back up their refs when a controversial call happens. It doesn't matter if the refs are wrong or right, publicly the league will defend the call. Now we do hear stories about the NFL from time to time telling a coach that they were screwed, but thats only through a leak. Never has the NFL publicly admitted that a ref screwed up. 2) I dont care what the NFL says. They have to know that common sense must prevail. I saw the replay last night, and again, HE LANDED ON HIS OWN TWO FEET, not another player as the rule states. Period. The refs screwed it up. I'm not forgetting what happened the last 4 minutes of regulation. But last I checked all of that just tied the game. Just because the Colts scored so much to tie the game doesnt mean Tampa deserved to lose, does it? If thats the case then Indy deserved to lose after the first 10 minutes of the game.
Chris Mortenson, a pretty respected ESPN NFL reporter, thinks the same.... http://espn.go.com/chrismortensen/s/2003/1007/1632719.html He also mentions the running into the kicker call.
Wrong. Johnny Greer (the ref) during the game and the NFL statement Tuesday both said that the flag was thrown because Rice came down on one of his own players (which if you watch the replay he didn't). They never claimed, nor have they made mention, that he used a teammate to propel himself. On a field goal there are two refs at the goal posts, two on the sidelines, a head ref in the backfield with the kicker, and two directly behind the defense. Those two are there to watch for this penalty. Those two blew it.
Favre was young in the ealry-90s and was learning. He was good, just not spectacular. Saying he was arguably the best in 96-97 is pretty lame seeing as he was the MVP for 3 successive years in the mid-90s, with spectacular numbers, leading the Packers to a Lombardi trophy. Granted, 99 was not a good year for him, but he has bounced back superbly. He is somewhat of an enigma wrapped in a mysery wrapped in a vest, since he always plays horribly in the MetroDome & Raymond James, but look at his home record, especially in the cold (never lost in regular season when below freezing). He got off to a slow start this season, but his last two games (@Chicago & vsSeattle) have been superb. He is something like the 7th winningest QB in NFL history, and is only 1 or 2 matches off most that are ahead of him. Green Bay have never had a losing season with him. He has somethign like 180 consecutive career starts, an NFL record for a QB & the Packers record. And he still has 2 or 3 odd years left in him Also, he makes his recievers, look at what happens to recivers that leave GB (Freeman, Schroeder for example)... it all goes downhill
**** MOD NOTE **** You guys have a good discussion going. Gonna leave this open tonight, but I'll close tomorrow (early morning if I don't get sick). Try to wrap this up by then, or move it to the general thread. Damn I missed a game.