Next Coach 2.0 (2024-26)

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Eleven Bravo, Jul 12, 2024.

  1. Ball Chucking Hack

    Jan 21, 2005
    Raleigh, NC
    I think it's hard to say how the group would react, but this is one factor that I would worry less about given Cherundolo's bio. First, there's his experience as a player. He's been a part of three cycles. He had successes and some failures. He can communicate that he was in the position these players are in and can speak to what works and doesn't/ He also understands lots of other details about their experiences, like cross atlantic travel that are particular to this group.

    Then there's his reputation as a young coach. More than other MLS guys, he's dealt with well-known players and hired experienced assistants. You never know exactly how these people feel, but so far, I haven't heard bad things about how he deals with these situations
     
  2. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member+

    Oct 14, 2007
    If it is someone like Dolo who won’t overawe the players, he can get what he needs from discipline. If that is not his style maybe he’s not the right guy. Hudson implied that some of these guys may need snot feel super accountable.
     
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  3. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    What in his statement made you say that?
     
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  4. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

    May 5, 2006
    Dystopia
    Keeping track of the coaching carousel ...

    Former Iceland and Jamaica manager Heimir Hallgrímsson has been appointed the new Republic of Ireland head coach, the Football Association of Ireland confirmed on Wednesday.

    The decision to appoint Hallgrímsson to the role ends the country's eight-month search {:eek:} for a permanent successor to Stephen Kenny whose contract was not extended following the team's failure to qualify for Euro 2024.

    The 57-year-old was joint head coach of his native Iceland when they shocked England in the round of 16 at Euro 2016.

    Hallgrímsson took sole charge of the national team from 2016 to 2018, leading the country to qualification for the World Cup in Brazil in Russia and an all-time high FIFA ranking of 18th. He was manager of Jamaica from 2022 to 2024, helping the team qualify for the 2024 Copa América and improving their ranking from 64th to 53rd.

    https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_...ireland-appoint-heimir-hallgrimsson-new-coach

    {My :eek: }
     
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  5. PhilipVU94

    PhilipVU94 Member

    Liverpool FC
    United States
    Jul 6, 2024
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, seems like maybe some action in that direction, which makes me happy. These monstruous threads are hard to navigate but there likely is some discussion of him on this one.

    About that 2022 Argentina win...
    I dug a bit to refresh my memory after seeing the link of his halftime speech. (Everyone who cares should watch it; this isn't the official Fox one that was posted.

    On one hand, the xG (something like 2+ to 0.5 or less) in that game tell the tale: KSA hit the luck jackpot, statistically speaking. Hiring a coach is predictive, so it hurts me to admit: That win is not the major accomplishment it seems.

    That said, there is process-oriented stuff to love beyond xG. They fought hard down 1-0 at half -- you can see in the video that his passion landed with the team even in translation to Arabic -- and, well, stats and randomness can't explain everything. The goals were well-taken.

    And even a lucky win over Argentina -- world champion Argentina! -- gains internal and external credibility. Players know he can win. Dual-nats perceive the hire as serious. The media, and maybe even a few fans, don't hound him for 2 years for not being Vaporware Candidate Who Would Jump to Take This Job That I Just Know Exists but Can't Put My Finger On.

    They played about an even xG game against Poland and were less dominated by Mexico, so in xG terms he took maybe the 31st team in the WC and got maybe 25-30ish results. I'm downgrading Qatar in my reasons to like him.

    Not just Qatar
    There are other good things, of course: AFCON trophies with Zambia and Côte d'Ivoire, one a huge outsider, the other pretty loaded. WCQ with Morocco and KSA, the latter winning a group including Japan.

    Elo is helpful (though eloratings.net has only an annual archive -- dude has an annoying habit of changing jobs midyear!)

    Summary

    • KSA was decently improved.
    • Morocco was hugely improved.
    • Ivory Coast was flat in Elo on his watch but won AFCON
    • Things dropped off at Zambia after the AFCON (doesn't look like he was fired though, went to Sochaux instead).

    In Elo terms his best jobs have been his most recent, which is nice to see. Ivory Coast was the most similar level to the US, and he didn't improve their Elo terribly much.

    KSA - July 2019 to March 2023 (successful WCQ)
    2018 (all these are end-of-year): rank 62nd
    2019: 68th
    --
    2022: 54th

    Morocco - Feb 2016 to July 2019 (successful WCQ)
    2015 : 76th
    --
    2018: 37th
    2019: 47th

    Ivory Coast - Jul '14 to May '15 (won AFCON)
    2013: 24th
    2014: 36th
    2015: 33rd

    Zambia - May '08 to Oct '13 minus a full year in late 2010-2011
    (won AFCON; quarterfinals of AFCON)

    2008: 78th
    ---
    2012: 68th
    2013: 91st


    Overall I believe NTs and clubs are different, so I have a strong bias toward someone who's improved non-elite NTs, both on fundamentals (proxied by Elo) and occasional moments of brilliance.

    I want us to hire him.
     
  6. PhilipVU94

    PhilipVU94 Member

    Liverpool FC
    United States
    Jul 6, 2024
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There goes my hope that we could improve the lads' standard of play and their dental hygiene all with one hire.
     
  7. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why wouldn’t he get a fair shake from the players?

    Did Argentina’s players not give Scaloni’s coach a fair shake despite him having less experience than Cherundolo when he took the job? What about Columbia’s coach, did they not give him a fair shake?
     
  8. Rick Shaw

    Rick Shaw Member

    Feb 25, 2009
    Villahermosa, México
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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  9. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Stuttgart - check out who they let go (their best players) and who they brought in just before the season Matarazzo was let go. He had nothing to play with.
     
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  10. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don’t think right now but I do think he’ll be interested at some point in the future.

    He’s said at various points in interviews that he wants to coach in the US and some point and give back to the game here. I think the timing just isn’t quite right yet on his end.
     
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  11. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He definitely seems to be the sort of foreign coach that is gettable.

    This is what Tim Howard had to say about him

    https://www.toffeeweb.com/season/23-24/news/44791.html


    “David Moyes is the greatest manager I ever played for. I stand before you today to tell you that if he asked me to run through the gates of Hell seven days a week, I'd smash them every single day because that's how great it was.

    “He instilled in me leadership, accountability, responsibility, taught me to be mature… I grew up into the person that I always hoped I'd be playing for David Moyes.”
     
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  12. keller4president

    Jan 5, 2006
    After watching this Herve speech, I don't think he would be a cultural fit for the team. I know he inspired Saudi Arabia to come back and win, but honestly it was a one time fluke.

     
  13. Marius Tresor

    Marius Tresor Member+

    Aug 1, 2014
    Can’t take that risk.
     
  14. PhilipVU94

    PhilipVU94 Member

    Liverpool FC
    United States
    Jul 6, 2024
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sincerely curious, would you have accepted that risk with Klopp?
     
  15. Marius Tresor

    Marius Tresor Member+

    Aug 1, 2014
    You mean like this guy?
     
  16. Marius Tresor

    Marius Tresor Member+

    Aug 1, 2014
    Klopp has international coaching experience (Champions League) with and against the best players in the world. Dolo doesn’t. Big Apple, meet little orange.
     
  17. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A large percentage of the reason the fanbase likes Renard is that speech.
     
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  18. Marius Tresor

    Marius Tresor Member+

    Aug 1, 2014
    I think you are right. And that is because he kinda looks like Kurt Russell (Herb Brooks) in “Miracle.”
     
  19. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    So are you limiting to people with international head coaching experience?

    I agree that much of this is risk mitigation, but we are going to have to take some risks across the board. This is a concern, but I don't think every coach struggles here.
     
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  20. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It’s also the sort of thing you talk about with potential candidates as part of the interview process.
     
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  21. Marius Tresor

    Marius Tresor Member+

    Aug 1, 2014
    Yeah, I think there is huge value in some of these national team “specialist” coaches, if you look at the historical results, for example:

    Bora Milutinovic
    Guus Hiddink
    Roberto Martinez
    Etc.
     
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  22. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Renard is interesting. I like a lot about him -- he has tourney success (and failure). He's coached a lot of international teams and clearly can bridge some level of cultural divide. Tactically, he wants to play more possession but obviously can be a pragmatist which I think fits our needs well.

    I would have zero issues with a Renard hire. I don't think he's necessarily a home run -- he has big successes but some surprising failures.

    He has highly variable AFCON results -- both ways -- in a wacky ass tournament. Him being able to score an upset against Argentina but not being able to parlay a single point against a pretty underwhelming Mexico and Poland pairing is something people should question. Losing 2-0 and 2-1 (with a meaningless, last minute goal) against them when you really just needed draws is something I'd look into to.

    But that's coaching.

    So he'd be good. I'm not convinced there's any magic criteria that puts any of these mid-level guys clearly above another. I mean, I'm sure some would work better for us, but I'm not sure we can know.
     
  23. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    International success would see to be a huge plus but then there are coaches that were U23 coaches that were moved up and did quite well. So someone like Dolo might be a rising coach that it could the perfect time to grab him before he jumps to Europe. Nancy fits that as well. May be coaches from other countries that also fit that. No matter who is chosen even if Klopp reconsiders won't play well with a lot of fans who think we're just right behind France and Argentina in talent.
     
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  24. Ball Chucking Hack

    Jan 21, 2005
    Raleigh, NC

    Where is this report coming from? Have any of the connected reporters (McIntyre, Carlisle, et al) mentioned this? I've been out of the loop but I haven't seen any. Has anyone mentioned if he has an interest in the job?
     
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  25. Ghost

    Ghost Member+

    Sep 5, 2001
    My hesitations about Renard. The European globetrotter coach is sort of the outside consultant of the Soccer World. They have a basic formula they're selling to teams that don't have that much. I would expect us to set up in a low block and counter. Maybe Renard is different. I haven't paid a lot of attention to him specifically.

    He also feels like settling. A different kind of settling than hiring an MLS coach. But settling nonetheless.
     

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