New League, Division 1 and Division 2

Discussion in 'NWSL' started by WPS_Movement, Jul 10, 2012.

  1. WPS_Movement

    WPS_Movement Member+

    Apr 9, 2008
    Simply put, this is the best way to do it at this juncture. Teams combine from all the wannabe pro or semi-pro divisions that exist right now. Whether it's WPSL elite, W-League, WPSL, or the California penal league. Find the right 24 teams (the 12 teams that start the first year as the "haves", and the 12 teams that start the first year as the "have nots")

    New League:
    Division 1 (12 teams)
    Division 2 (12 teams)

    After each season, 4 teams from Division 1 move down to Division 2. This is driven by how bad their team is in their win-loss record (points in the standings), or how bad their attendance is. The bottom 2 teams (aka the 11th and 12 place team in the final regular season standings from Division 1) move down to Division 2, no matter how good or bad their attendance is.

    And then the two teams with the worst attendance avg. per match in Division 1 (two teams among the 5th place through 10th place teams) also move down to Division 2. The top 4 teams (the playoff teams) in Division 1 in the final win-loss standings are "protected", no matter what their avg. attendance is, but they would need to be careful the following year if they continue to have poor attendance, because once they slip out of the Top 4 then they are eligible to move down to Division 2 if attendance is poor enough.

    After each season, 4 teams from Division 2 move up to Division 1. This is done in similar fashion to the regression approach above, but in progression format. The top 2 teams from Division 2 (in win-loss record, aka points in the standings) move up to Division 1. And the top two teams in attendance from the teams placed 3rd place through 8th place in the standings, move up as well. If a team finishes 9th through 12 place (bottom 4 teams) in the standings, then they are not eligible to move up to Division 1, even if they lead their division in attendance.

    Budget, Ticket prices, and Player salaries (ratios):
    Typically, most or all of Division 1 teams will have around or at least twice the budget of Division 2 teams. Avg. ticket prices will be around or at least twice as much in cost to attend Division 1 matches compared to Division 2 matches, since the top players and teams would be in Division 1. The avg. player in Division 1 will make around (or at least) twice as much money as a Division 2 player. Therefore, Division 2 teams will essentially cause more teammates to have to bunker up and live together in the same unit - to share living costs together.

    Overall System:
    This system motivates EVERYONE.
    Each season, 1/3 of each division goes through turnover.

    It motivates Division 1 franchises to want to stay and retain their status as a Division 1 franchise for the next year. Costs (and total budget) would be higher in Division 1 than in Division 2, but potential profit would be higher in Division 1, since ticket prices would be at a greater than/equal to ratio in disparity over Division 2, compared to the ratio between the avg. paid player from Division 1 to Division 2.

    This system also motivates the players to want to win even more. The more they can win, the more they can move up in the standings, and the more they earn more attendance = better chance to stay in Division 1, or move up from Division 2 to Division 1, as this = more pay for players (to be in Division 1 than in Division 2). Of course, the top players from Division 2 can be signed at anytime in the off-season by a Division 1 team, so there's individual performance incentive in addition to team performance incentive, for each player to focus on.

    This system also motivates the players (especially the middle class players in terms of talent level in their respective division) to do more creative grass roots and guerrilla marketing to get more butts in the seats for their team's total attendance. Higher attendance ultimately = higher pay, and more chance to retain as Division 1, or progress to Division 1, for their team.

    This system also motivates dedicated fans to get other fans to come out to the stadium. If you're an employee at work (at a smaller organization), and you know you're going to lose your job if your small company doesn't produce more business or throughput, then you tend to fight harder for them (if you care for the operation you work for, or at least retaining your current job there). And if you're a dedicated fan, you don't want to see your team lose their franchise, or in this case, drop their status to Division 2. And Division 2 fans will also want to drive more fans to help elevate their team to Division 1. Everyone wants to contribute to a winning organization, and this allows everyone to be more "proactive" and "interactive" in the combined success of their franchise (owners, front office, players, fans, and overall marketing efforts). Everyone can contribute and have more "say" (and overall pull) on the total team GDP (per se').

    In this system, I don't think the league should announce attendance results until the end of the season. That way every fan and player fights to bring out more attendance to come to the stadium on a constant basis. If they were to look "too good" or "too bad" in reported attendance results compared to the other franchises that they're competing with, then this can cause them to not care as much to drive attendance. Therefore, you don't want the players and fans knowing the exact attendance numbers, until it is officially announced on live webcast at the end of the season (after the playoffs are over with).

    This is the most dramatic system. And the most fun system. And the most crucial to everyone's pay. It totally incentivizes and drives everyone to be thinking "new league, better results, we need to make things happen and can get more compensation, status, and sustainability, with higher success". No more entitlement. No more earnings or privileges from what you or anyone else did yester-year. Obviously there is a small exception, as national team players will still be coddled more, and will earn more. Or will they? But for everyone else, this new system is about what you are doing today, not yesterday.

    What are you doing "today" to keep your team and yourself to be positioned in the best possible way for status, success, and earnings compensation?

    I think it has to come down to this.
    This creates more force, and more will.
    And it is this particular will that can make the new league perservere for a long time.
  2. WPS_Movement

    WPS_Movement Member+

    Apr 9, 2008
    Each year ....

    Division 1
    1st place team (protected)
    2nd place team (protected)
    3rd place team (protected)
    4th place team (protected)
    5th place - 10th place (non-protected, the worst two teams in attendance move down)
    11th place team (automatically moves down to Division 2)
    12th place team (automatically moves down to Division 2)

    Division 2
    1st place team (automatically moves up to Division 1)
    2nd place team (automatically moves up to Division 1)
    3rd place - 8th place (top two teams in home attendance move up to Division 1)
    9th place (non-eligible to move up)
    10th place (non-eligible to move up)
    11th place (non-eligible to move up)
    12th place (non-eligible to move up)

    In Division 1, four teams make the playoffs each year.
    If you make the playoffs (top 4), you are guaranteed to retain your status as a Division 1 team.
    Only 4 of the 12 teams should make the playoffs in Division 1.
  3. Beau Dure

    Beau Dure Member+

    May 31, 2000
    Vienna, VA
    Shall we combine this with the other thread?
  4. StarCityFan

    StarCityFan BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 2, 2001
    Greenbelt, MD
    Washington Freedom
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Still don't see how you can have promotion/relegation when the NCAA doesn't allow its collegiate players to play professionally. A promoted or relegated team is going to have to restructure its entire roster, which makes it kind of pointless to pretend that it's the same team.
  5. luvdagame

    luvdagame Member+

    Jul 6, 2000
    you must have missed capitalism 101.

    the owner - the person who, (instead of us football typists), forked over thousands/millions of his own cash, always has privileges, entitlements, and earnings.

    whatever little he gets with a sports team he is not going to give up.

    he is not, NOT going to agree to relegating his team unless there is no difference in the earnings and prestige when his team goes down.

    most owners are in it for earnings (not too much $ lost) and prestige.
  6. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Please no. Let the wild postulating joke thread die peacefully (or painfully, either way). Just keep it out of the well more serious thread.
    Bonnie Lass repped this.
  7. Beau Dure

    Beau Dure Member+

    May 31, 2000
    Vienna, VA
    Fair enough.
  8. Greg_G

    Greg_G Member

    Jun 8, 2012
    Arsenal FC
    I can't see how tying attendance figures to promotion/relegation is in any way a good idea. First, the media would have a field day, leading to instant ridicule. Second, this would absolutely drive teams to fill the stands with non-paying customers and to "cook the books" with $1 tickets and $3 group packages for multiple attendees, especially when they are not in position to win promotion/stave off relegation through points accumulation (just wait until a team jumps from an average of 300 per match to 1200 per match - without having to report those numbers until AFTER the season when the pro/rel spots have been determined!). Smaller market teams would fight this idea tooth and nail. And the huge disparity in ticket costs between the first and second division would lead to huge drop offs in ticket sales for promoted teams. Even the English Premier League doesn't see such exorbitant ticket increases for promoted teams despite huge demand (West Ham up 16%, Reading up 33%).

    And I think relegating one-third of your league would be too much turnover and instability. Creating true, lasting rivalries will be tough. Familiarizing viewers with four new teams every year will be tough. Changing that many broadcast markets every year would be unnerving for broadcasters. And cutting salary caps for relegated teams by half would devastate teams in terms of continuity and competitiveness.
  9. StarCityFan

    StarCityFan BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 2, 2001
    Greenbelt, MD
    Washington Freedom
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Most attendance counts are a joke, anyway - are you going to hire independent auditors to make sure they're accurate?
  10. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Honest question ... isn't that pretty much what W-League & WPSL teams have to do now anyway? Since the players aren't tied to the teams, they can pretty much go where they want to for the summer. Is there much team continuity?

    Not that putting together a promoted roster if the new league becomes very competitive would be easy...
  11. MRAD12

    MRAD12 Member+

    Jun 10, 2004
    Chicago Fire
    WPS_Movement, what's the purpose of this thread and why didn't you just post in the other one?

    Your ideas/dreams are silly. Make no sense.

    Read luvdagame's post again:

    Read Arnim's (Owner of the Chicag Red Stars) comments from the other thread (#34):

    Relegation in this country will not happen any time soon.
  12. StarCityFan

    StarCityFan BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 2, 2001
    Greenbelt, MD
    Washington Freedom
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The amateur Freedom from 2005 to 2008 generally had at least half-a-dozen core players stick around from one year to the next, and these were starters, not just on the roster. Most of them even went to the professional team when it came back in 2009 (which doesn't refute my point since if there'd been a professional league before then, most of them would have been playing there instead).

    Eight players on this year's DCU Women's roster were here last year, and it might have been more had DCU not picked up a bunch of WPSers who were out of work.

    By comparison, if DCU were to go pro and drop all their non college graduates, they'd lose six of their top players and a dozen in all. That doesn't sound so bad until you realize that most of their other starters are WPS veterans who are only playing for DCU because there isn't a pro league.

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