New Furman Thread Courtney Requested

Discussion in 'College & Amateur Soccer' started by Veteran Observer, Sep 20, 2003.

  1. Veteran Observer

    Veteran Observer New Member

    Aug 11, 2003
    I’m not sure why the moderator would shut down the most active thread on this board – and then ask for a new one on the same topic.

    If you only want insipid commentary from people who have no passion for the game or their team, then no one will care, and no one will post. People check these boards to find out what passionate fans really think.

    The question posed at the beginning of the season: “WILL Furman have a rotten season?” is being answered by the results they are achieving.

    The question I want an answer to is: WHY is Furman having such a rotten season?

    Mindless support (“Furman’s great because I love ‘em!”) is pointless, as is mindless vitriol (“Furman stinks because I hate ‘em.”)

    Energetic discussion that probes the question is what we’re after. Any takers? Or has Courtney killed all the enthusiasm?

    FIXXXER New Member

    Feb 16, 2001
    Hotlanta, GA
    New Thread

    Yeah, this is pretty bad. People obviously have some pretty strong feelings about Furman, so I'd say that they've done something to earn it. Censorship shouldn't be subjective.

    Vet.Obs - I've heard from 2 former Paladins and they could answer your question, or express their opinion, as to WHY Furman is having a rotten season. I'd be glad to share that with you here, but then we would just get people coming out of the woodwork and another thread would be shut down.
  3. Attacking Minded

    Attacking Minded New Member

    Jun 22, 2002
    And that question has been answered. Furman is missing it's two most dominant players from last year, Ricardo Clark and Drew Moor. Everyone knows what happened to Ricardo and with Moor it was more of a mystery. We also have found out that one of the Furman assistants was let go in mid season last year. This was an assistant that then moved to Moor's hometown and has strong ties to the college that Drew Moor transferred to. So by all appearances it looks as if Allison had to do some house cleaning and they will get over it.

    With the disruptions to their defense, they continue their finishing problems from last year. For all of Furman's consecutive shutout record last year they never seemed to be able to score much. With last year's defense and the old sub rule Allison didn't have to play a very risky attack. I hope he and Leese mix things up this year. With Clint Dempsey playing under two forwards and other players running through the middle, they could put together some very entertaining games.

    As much as the ACC/Clemson crowd would like this to be an eternal damnation of all things not ACC/Clemson, there just isn't that much here.

    So what we have had on this forum lately is the same immature people saying the same things over and over. That's not very entertaining. That's not a good use of BS. Don't you guys have a metallic sign on the lonely side of Riggs field to bang on or something?

    This sort of step up is the same thing I hope from Clemson. I was very glad to see Ogunsola's style of play as Clemson tends to play a direct style of soccer but with Ogunsola working the inside, they could be very fun to watch. Unfortunately Ogunsola got injured a few weeks ago and Clemson went back to form against Duke.
  4. Veteran Observer

    Veteran Observer New Member

    Aug 11, 2003
    Re: New Thread

    Sounds like something we'd all like to hear. Could you summarize what they told you in general terms - something like: "In their opinion the problem is..." Perhaps that won't stir the hornet's nest to much.
  5. Djansson11

    Djansson11 New Member

    Sep 20, 2003
    Response to the bashing by the clearly neutral soccer fan..

    "Everything about Furman soccer is crap". Wow. This guy has so much time on his hands, he can pinpoint every single flaw in the Furman men's program and still has time to be creative and make up others.

    "The recruiting is crap". I know, right? Who would want two regional team players and a national player?? FOLLOWING the season that Furman had the #3 ranked recruiting class in the nation.

    "The field is crap". OBVIOUSLY the sign of a terrible team. Went to the depths of knowledge and soccer analysis to come up with that one. The two first points he makes are two of the most inaccurate to touch a bigsoccer message board.

    "The shirts are crap, purple is the style in san francisco" ..colorblind much? The men's team doesn't have a touch of purple on the uniforms. Even if they did, it MUST have a correlation to the level of play. Right. Even the most superstitious idiot in life wouldn't believe that.

    "The alumni are crap". Once again, you have yet to mention a single reason why the Furman SOCCER TEAM isn't any good. Maybe you're starting to realize that is the one thing you can't really attack. Atleast I think that's what the readers of your incoherent vent are realizing. Nusum, Goldsmith... I mean really, ..All-American, big deal. That can't mean anything.

    "The entire coaching staff is crap". Doug Allison, one of the winningest coaches in Division I soccer. As for the pregame speeches (which I'm sure you've been a part of so you would know) are tailored to the particular team he is against. Surprisingly, EVEN playing Clemson requires a bit stronger of a game plan then "run, kick, head, run, chase, goal". What, was YOUR soccer coach that dislexic?

    "The history is crap". Beating Clemson is our biggest victory? Don't flatter yourself. Can you really remember the last time Furman didn't win the Southern Conference? 16 titles since 1983, tournament champions 9 times since 88? It is still a growing program, and the best has yet to come. But go ahead and stay we're the third best, assuming USC is better. But, wait... what was the score last time Furman played USC? Oh, right... 1-0 FURMAN. Sorry, slipped my mind for a second.

    Pros are crap? Seriously, a top rookie of the year candidate can chase balls, but that's it, right? Not score key goals or anything.

    ..Yeah, that's your credibility slipping away by the second.

    Finally, "the fans are crap". Drunken frat boys.... yeah, so? Friday night games, is that so surprising? You'll admit watching anything is more fun drunk. Hot sorority girls? Looks like you've got some beer goggles of your own on at the game if you really think that.

    I'm not even going to get into your level of intellect, as if I haven't disproven it already. November 7th huh? Must be a terrorist threat, because Furman definitely doesn't play clemson til the 9th.
  6. Veteran Observer

    Veteran Observer New Member

    Aug 11, 2003
    Since they were part of the defense, the absence of Clark and Moor may have something to do with Furman's recent propensity to give up late goals.

    But the lack of scoring is a bigger problem and neither Drew or Rico contributed much in that area last year.

    In my opinion, the lack of goals is not down to poor finishing, but to an inability to create scoring chances - you can't finish chances you don't have - and Furman has real problems generating scoring chances.
  7. Veteran Observer

    Veteran Observer New Member

    Aug 11, 2003
    Re: Response to the bashing by the clearly neutral soccer fan..

    Don't take this wrong, but you, also, have yet to mention a single reason why they are off to such a bad start this year.

    Look - here's the problem - you are evidently a Furman fan, but even you - a loyal supporter - can't offer a single cogent reason for the terrible results they've had so far. Ranting is not reasoning.

    If you are a Furman fan, I would think there are some important questions you should be trying to get the answers to because for a previousy highly rated team to go winless in 6 matches there have to be some real problems going on.

    FIXXXER New Member

    Feb 16, 2001
    Hotlanta, GA
    Yeah, the next time that it is your priviledge to visit Historic Riggs Field, why don't you take the time to read them. You'll get to see things on those signs that aren't hanging at your stadium in Travelers Rest. And don't give us any crap about winning the Southern Conference title, that is a joke.

    BTW- That lonely side, that's the visitor side. That's your side, that's why it's empty...
  9. Djansson11

    Djansson11 New Member

    Sep 20, 2003
    Who said I know why we're losing?

    Who said I was trying to answer our problems to losing? I was just defending Furman against ridiculous insults. I never said there was a legitimate and acceptable reason why Furman is losing, I just wasn't about to let someone bash Furman soccer about things that weren't true, and even if they were true, would have nothing to do with the results so far this season.

    However, I am actually prepared to tell you why (probably) Furman has experienced such difficulty this season. So far, it appears that Allison is employing a new system of attack. In general, it seems as if most possessions for Furman involve completely skipping over the midfield. Long balls from the outside back to the strikers in double-coverage have, needless to say, been rather unproductive. Clint Dempsey has spent most of the season thus far at the forward position, giving him many fewer touches, and thus, fewer chances to create a scoring opportunity. You really can't afford to have anyone but Dempsey controlling the midfield. So, because of this, and the new attacking style, no one for Furman is really in charge of the midfield. The center midfield has only been affective in winning balls, not really having anything to do with the attack.

    Now, the defensive problems are stemming from, yes, the absense of Drew Moor, BUT also, the poor performance of some normally very reliable veterans. This has caused last minute breakdowns in the back. That is one thing that may or may not be remedied. However, the problems with the offense are laid out for you right there.

    Is that better? In the future, attack concepts like these, rather than the field, attire, and the history, which have absolutely NOTHING to do with the success or failure of a soccer team.
  10. Attacking Minded

    Attacking Minded New Member

    Jun 22, 2002
    I like to sit on the main side under the press box and listen to the girls make fun of the dorks on the lonely side. You don't sit over there do you?

    My theory is the new sub rule. I think the defenders are getting tired and stressed. I would bet that college coaches are going to learn to sub defenders or let them be a bit lazier in stepping up. I hope it's the latter as college soccer suffers from too much constant, frantic, high intensity play. Clemson has also given up late goals this year but they've also put the ball in the back of the net.

    What particular game are you referring to? I've seen a lot of balls put in the box with no one making good contact. Furman is going to have to work the ball in closer and finish in those dangerous situations.
  11. sheeplover

    sheeplover Member

    Sep 16, 2002
    Zidane's right foot
    Weak Furman Replies

    I am impressed that there were actually enough Furman fans to post more than one reply to my original post.

    I gave an honest opinion of the truths of Furman Soccer and the replies were absolutely embarassing like the Furman program itself.

    USsoccer fan made a valiant effort but here are the revised truths about Furman.

    1) I tried to give some kind of respect to the sorority girls because as fugly as they are, they are the best thing about the school.

    2) You have no history. The Southern Conference has teams with very little ability and even less history than Furman. No team in that conference would even beat NC State in the ACC. The Southern Conference is the fat ugly girl at the end of the night at the bar of college soccer.

    3) Trying to claim that players like Alvarez and Nusum are quality is like saying your football team is going to the BCS. No USA National team players or even MLS players. No Hermann award winners, no Olympic or World Cup Players. Just struggling PDL players. Anybody remember Oguchi Onyewu playing in the Belgian 1st division? Paul Stalteri playing in the Bundesliga? I'll stop while I can.

    4) One Elite 8 in the NCAA. All I can say is wow.

    5) Recruting. Two regional and national pool team player! That is the stuff of legends. USC has out recruited you every year and Clemson averages 3 players from the U-17 National Team every year.

    6) USSoccer fan played for Furman. I am sure you have a great long throw in and can kick really hard. It must be great having an uncle for a father.

    7) I may not have ever played college soccer but for you to call Clemson's playing style direct is like John Barry Nusum calling Elton John gay.

    8) At the end of the day Furman has no wins this year and no matter what USsoccerfan, Veteran Observer, DJansson11 or JBinSC say, they have always been, are now, and will always be the most over-rated team and third best team in South Carolina. South Carolina is probably the best team in the state right now and could go a long way in the NCAA tournament.

    By the way USSoccer fan, putting November 7th as a day to look forward to was no mistake. It's the day your Mom said she was going to trade her food stamps in for a back wax.

    I am no college soccer player but that doesn't mean I couldn't have chased long balls for Furman.

    UNC-Asheville Final Four 2003
  12. Veteran Observer

    Veteran Observer New Member

    Aug 11, 2003
    Re: sheeplover

    I think everyone can see that this whole thing from "sheeplover" (what's THAT all about?) is not worth replying to - so even though it's tempting, please don't bother.

    I appreciate the replies from Attacking Minded and Djansson11 - they were making some headway toward explaining Furman's woes. Let's try to keep this focused.
  13. Attacking Minded

    Attacking Minded New Member

    Jun 22, 2002
    Re: Weak Furman Replies

    I think both Clemson and Furman play direct. Most college teams do with the notable exception of Coastal. The difference between Clemson and Furman so far is that Clemson has been able to put the ball back in the net. Clemson's saving grace this season is Ogunsola and Furman's is the lack of a dominant striker. I think that Furman is going to have the better chance to improve their style of play as Ogunsola is injured and Clemson is going into the teeth of the ACC which means they will not be able to experiment.

    I have a strange feeling that the set of games between Clemson, Furman and Costal is going to determine who is who in SC. Clemson barely excaped at home on PK's after a double overtime against Coastal in the NCAA tournament so I have a strong feeling that Coastal is being underrated on this board.
  14. truthandlife

    truthandlife Member

    Jul 28, 2003
    Houston Dynamo
    Re: Weak Furman Replies

    You sure aren't. You don't have a clue about the game. I bet you can brag about your co-ed intermural championship you won one day.
  15. USSoccerFan#1

    USSoccerFan#1 New Member

    Sep 9, 2003
    There is no doubt that Furman is struggling to date. But that is how soccer goes sometimes, especially college, where any given team can beat another, regardless of rankings. Furman does not have the history as other programs such as Indiana, Clemson, Virginia, etc... But lets not forget that it has about 2,000 students, which was less than my high school, and is a very hard school to get into, let alone be an athlete there. Furman has been in the national scene over the past 5 years, so youve got to give credit where credit is due. It seems like many people are happy that they have finally had a bad season, but why? Jealousy, being scared....I cant figure it out. All this over some tiny school in Greenville. Ive talked with some of the guys on the team, and they are not down. Its just a problem of getting the job done, which they havent yet, but the season is still very early, and they are dying to get that first win. Somebody is bound to step up and start scoring. I remeber when John Barry left and everybody thought there went the attack, however Scott Hoch and Anthony Esquivel picked it up, scoring big goals last year. Dont count Coach Allison out, he is one of the best in the country, as we all know, and he will have his guys ready for the rest of the season.
  16. sheeplover

    sheeplover Member

    Sep 16, 2002
    Zidane's right foot
    Truth and Life is a big talker

    Truth and Life,

    You really got me man, I am scarred for life from yout insult. Wish me luck in therapy.

    Do you even know where Furman is? Unless you like the Southern Conference which a guy like you probably does because you are the Dungeons and Dragons, Pokemon kinda guy.

    I may not have played college soccer like you did at a D-3 Culinary school but I do know good soccer and it's not played by turtles in a gay pride purple shirt.

    Later to you Scott Bower
  17. freedomfry

    freedomfry New Member

    Apr 17, 2003

    Sheeplover, if thats your real name. Its now apparent that Furman passed you over. Yes, I'm a Furman fan. I personally can't stand Trevor Adair nor Mark Berson, but I don't dwell on it. Furmans having trouble this year, so what.

    Go into the light, Go into the light.

    FIXXXER New Member

    Feb 16, 2001
    Hotlanta, GA
    Re: incredible

    But let me think Doug Allison is the greatest?
  19. USSoccerFan#1

    USSoccerFan#1 New Member

    Sep 9, 2003
    I think all three are class act coaches. Doug was an assistant with Trevor and has also worked under Mark Berson. They all have respect for each other and thier programs. Im sure since they have known each other for so long and have worked with each other, the styles of play may look similar. While Mark and Trevor have programs with history, Doug is in the top three in the country in every category since he has taken over the program at Furman. All three are great coaches.
  20. Attacking Minded

    Attacking Minded New Member

    Jun 22, 2002
    Shhhh USSoccerFan#1. You're going to let out a secret.

    What makes this ongoing Furman discussion so juvenile is the the coaches all do know each other and get along with each other very well. The play each other's teams and go to each other's weekend soccer fest. They wouldn't do that if they couldn't stand each other the way some people on this board make it out to be.
  21. gyr0

    gyr0 New Member

    Mar 31, 2002
    What do you lads think of Sott Hoek for Furman?
  22. USSoccerFan#1

    USSoccerFan#1 New Member

    Sep 9, 2003
    Like Ive said before, any team can beat another on any given day. Take for example.....NC STATE!!!!! I hear they dominated Clemson and outshot them in their 2-0 victory today. Furman fans should be all over this after all the crap that we have taken from the classy Clemson fans. However, we are not like that, so congrats to NC State, and best of luck to Clemson. Hopefully they can bounce back after a tough loss to a great team.....NC State!!
  23. sheeplover

    sheeplover Member

    Sep 16, 2002
    Zidane's right foot
    Congrats Furman

    I would like to congratulate Furman on winning their 1st game of the season against Lipscomb University.

    They recorded one more win than Clemson this weekend but still trail the Tigers by 2 wins in this regular season and 2 National Championships but they are well on their way after this historic victory over their arch rival.
  24. MusicBox

    MusicBox New Member

    Sep 9, 2003
    Its a shame that some among us define accomplishment as the act of celebration in others losses. Weak....

    Is Furman the team it was last year...not hardly. Are there signs of improvement......I believe so. The programs at Clemson and USC have had their share of struggles in years past, BUT they have withstood the test of time and have consistently placed their teams in the tournament every year. That must have something to do with great coaching and great recruiting. Furman's success over the years isn't too bad either. We should commend the fans that are loyal and stand up for their programs. Allison has done a great deal for the Furman program and has the credentials and graduates to prove it.

    My guess that Adair and Berson, being class acts and responsible for bringing Allison to America, would have nothing but praise for they way Allison has steered the program since his arrival.

    Its easy to kick'em when their down. Reserve judgement until the end of the season.
  25. dragon

    dragon Member

    Sep 8, 2003
    Saw the game with Libscomb,then had to drive back to Atlanta; but Ive been hesitant to reply to these new threads due to the lack of insight and blindly following Allison's edict. Some of you--vet-ob, fixxxer-- have asked-"why the decline?" I know some will jump on this and be delirous but the reasons are evident. Allison can coach but is not real great at it---unc-ashville. When playing good teams, he reverts to the christmas tree formation(one up top). Hard to score this way. Furman can score but only against below average teams and many times not enough goals to win. JBN could score but never when needed or must situations-- in big games. By the way his playing all 4 years led to the points and goal lead not his ability to be one of the top players in college. If he was he would have made it in the MLS or "shown up" in the A-League. He is lazy and won't work.
    At the risk of being a nawsayer, Furman has always had the problemof stopping goals in the late minutes and Allison has never ever addressed that situation. Vet-ob, fixxxer, and djamsson11, the reason for poor start, poor performance and lowsey results is simple "can't recruit and keep the good players anymore.
    Don't need to go into the RH faults, but one asset he had was recuiting and player dedication. By the way, Mr. Moor was a graduate of IU and friend of Yeagley; but still he came to Furman---Why. I would think he left because his incoming class was gone of players. Those abilities brought in the 3 best recruiting classes Furman had and just to let you know, Clint wasn't even seen by Allison nor wanted. Lucky the asst. saw the future talent and wanted him. Take last years class out of the mix(tragedy) and this years class(not the quality of the previous 3 years) and you have the reason.
    By the way, Leese's emails beratting the players sure is a lack of class. That type of talk should be between player and coach, not the internet. I'm sure Berson and Adair don't allow that type of "garbage" spewing out, even if it were true. Allison's "new attack" of over the top has always been there. Someone mentioned recruiting at a hard academic school-----remember, minorities are treated differently than athletic scholarships. To meet NCAA rules minorities can get different treatment and grants. Maybe don't have to count towards 9.9. This works at all colleges in the USA so no BS about hard. If needed in, most make it. Enough for now, please ponder.

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