Pareja is not a playmaker per se. But Vaca does not line up in an interior role; the Burn line up like this: Pareja Chivas Vaca Deering Chivas doesn't do much creating as far as seeing the field; his strengths are getting wide, then taking you on or crossing. Great 1-v-1, good passing, ok crossing, crap D, mediocre finishing. First goals of the year came two weeks ago. Chivas' game has been elevated significantly by the emergence of Paul Broome who The Bruce should be drooling over to give a run out. Pareja has an everywhere-on-the-pitch when-the-opposition-least-expects-it workrate reminiscent of Tom Dooley for the Nats in the mid 90's before Armas' emergence. Just that Pareja lines up in the wheelhouse instead of at D-Mid, where Deering seems to have found a home. In years past, both Pareja and Deering were on the board more, and both seem to have consciously dialed it down with attempts from range per the direction of one Mr. Jeffries. Pareja's drop in "creativity" is likely most attributable to the system and style instituted by Mike Jeffries which has become extremely consistent week in, week out. (It's only failing is it's inability to compensate for Spartan Stadium & the opponent playing there.) That system is built around width, depth, and organization. The Burn look to test you everywhere before deciding where to attack, and setting up base camp to attack down the middle is not part of the system. Jeff is right about Vaca "doing most of the creative work" for the Burn, but the caveat that he didn't elaborate upon is where he is doing that work from. Last year we tried to lineup with both Pareja and Vaca in interior roles with a hybrid 3-5-2 and they just got in each other's way. And it also left us exposed in the back. Upgrading our back four (Suarez should also be on il bruce's radar) has really covered for the defensive weaknesses of Chivas and Vaca. And moving Vaca wide right has given him the space he needs (at least anywhere other than Spartan) to make things happen. The Burn's most dangerous playmaker is Vaca, but he operates wide right, cutting in for opportunities, and he's not Valderamma. Yet. -bs
Damn glad you replyed to that post. I was going to ask for you to hand in your press badge after calling our last home game performance as attacking from the get go. We won, but what an ugly match.
If I were comparing Dallas to the 2000 Fire, I'd say Pareja is very much in the Armas role and Deering plays more like Jesse Marsch. I also know its' become fashionable to rag on Chris Armas, but he is the heart and soul of the Fire, period.
Why is it when someone says "period," they are almost always wrong? A curious fact. Then again, I'm not really sure what you mean by "heart and soul." What I do know is that the Fire have a bunch of good players and could do just fine without Armas: Bocanegra Armas Stoichkov (when healthy, he's still good) Thornton Razov Beasley Josh Wolff
Who's ragging on Armas? You're the one who defined his (and Pareja's) role as ball-winner and battler. I'm just saying that Pareja brings to the Burn skills that Armas clearly doesn't have -- and it's wrong to limit the definition of his (Pareja's) play in these terms. If you think Pareja is "very much in Armas' role" then we're watching different games. "Heart and soul of the fire"? I'd be interested to hear how Armas beats out Nowak for this title.
Frankly, it's hard for me to compare the Fire's midfield and the Burn's midfield, because they're so different in philosophy. With the Burn, there's no real playmaker, no definite #10, like Nowak is with the Fire. Instead, you've got Chivas Martinez on the left, Oscar Pareja in the middle, and Joselito Vaca on the right, who generally share the playmaking duties. And if you look at the assist totals for each, they're fairly close to one another -- 9 for Chivas, 7 for Vaca, and 6 for Pareja. What Pareja brings to the table is that he's one out of the three best suited to play the middle in MLS. He's not only skilled, but he's not afraid to get stuck in and win balls and to take a little abuse from opposing midfielders. And he's the guy who, more than anyone, is going to step up and run the show. He can also hold the ball, settle it, and maintain possession. Is he as good a playmaker as Nowak? No. But he doesn't need to be, since he's got Chivas and Vaca on the wings to keep defenses occupied and to take heat off of him. And because you've got two legitimate threats on the wings, opposing teams have to cover the entire width of the field, which leaves space for all three of them to work. But Pareja is the heart and soul of the team. He's their most important player. Vaca has tons of skill, but the reason why he's out on the wing and not in the center is because he still lacks the grit and the fire in his game that Pareja possesses, or that his predecessor wearing the Bolivian #10 shirt has. But he's still young. As for now, Pareja is the Burn's MVP, hands down. If you're looking for a comparison from the Fire, I'd say that he's an amalgam of Peter Nowak and Chris Armas.
New England moderator hits the nail on the head, as far as I'm concerned. The only thing that I had to think twice about is the comment that Pareja is the Burn's most important player - which just shows how talented and deep the Burn are. It will be interesting to see if they can get over the hump in the playoffs this year.
I think what I was trying to say is that this year, Pareja has become more of a two-way player than in the past. If you took that as "Pareja is all grit and hustle" then I must've written it poorly. Also, Armas on the Fire is much more of an attacking player than Armas on the national team. See, I think a lot of people have "limited" Armas to being all about hard work, etc. Obviously, I think he's a great MLS player (Best XI, what, four years in a row?) I also consider things like anticipation and the abilty to stay tuned in for 90 to be "skills." Armas is a two-way player, a guy who allows Nowak to "cheat" defensively and just concentrate on running the show. That's where my "heart and soul" comment comes into play. Clearly, the Fire over the past two seasons have been a good team with Nowak in the middle and a below-average team when he's been sidelined. No argument that Nowak's the "most important" player from that standpoint. But Armas, as heart and soul, is the inspirational leader. I can't tell you how many times Armas has stepped up and dominated in big games. I think his absence thisyear has a lot to do with the Fire surrendering so many late goals.
Style of play debate aside - I think Pareja and Armas are exactly the same from the standpoint of what they mean to the team - I still think that both are the heart and soul of their teams. When Pareja misses games - Dallas typically does not win. With Armas out, Chicago is tied for the 5th best record in MLS instead of tied for 1st - which is where they finished last year. Yes the Fire have has lots of injuries, but they have lots of injuries ever year including Nowak missing games last year.
I just think this underlines the fact that the comparison is forced - and you have to do some mental gymnastics to try and make it work. If you had to leave either Armas or Nowak on the bench, who would you leave? If you had a choice of replacing Nowak with either Pareja or Armas, who would you choose? I like Armas, but I just think his skill set is more replaceable than Nowak's or Pareja's.
In 2000, the Fire made it through a semi-final series vs. Metro without Peter Nowak. The reason was Chris Armas. I don't think his "skill set" has been at all replaceable in the concept of the Chicago Fire. Guys like Jesse Marsch, Mike Sorber, etc. have tried to do his job, but it's just not the same. Not even close, really. Again, I know people think Armas is all about "hard work" but if it was that easy, there'd be a lot of players out there as good as Armas. In my opinion, there are not. One thing Dark Knight that I find amusing (and this is a decent BigSoccer debate) is that you are saying YOU know what I meant with my assessment of Pareja better than I do. Again, I listed the guy as an MVP candidate...M V P. I think that's pretty high praise for the player, no matter how much you think I'm holding back.
Do I really have to say why trying to replace him with Jesse Marsch and Mike Sorber wouldn't work? Jeff - With all due respect, when did I say I know what you meant better than you do? I'm just having an argument about stuff you said, if I'm off-base - make your case. What I find amusing is that you are resorting to this kind of patronizing debate technique. I'm not debating whether Armas deserves to be first 11 or whatever - I just don't think Pareja is "very much in the Armas role". What am I missing?
Just the whole "mental gymnastics" thing. My assessment of Pareja may be way off, I dunno. I thought I was paying the guy an immense compliment when I compared him to Armas. This has probably reached a conclusion.
Re: Re: New Bradley "Insider" I for one am fed up with the obvious anti-Fire bias with the news media. Jeff Bradley has consistently shown himself to be a closet Burn fan by picking the Burn to win MLS every year and now he's heaping praise on Pareja. This latest "dumbass coach" comment just reinforces his anti-Fire bias. I hope at the next Bradley family gathering, Bob pops him in the mouth. BTW, Jeff, what's the news on Dipsy and who's getting let go to make room for him?
Re: Re: New Bradley "Insider" You don't mind if I stick to the Snickers Scratch and Win game cards for game analysis do you?