Being born in Mexican soil does not mean that you are going to rip your heart out for the national team. Sometimes nationalized people have more respect and love for Mexico than Mexicans themselves I'm talking in general, not only about the footy players.
Being born in Mexican soil does not mean that you are going to rip your heart out for the national team. Very true. Sometimes nationalized people have more respect and love for Mexico than Mexicans themselves Generally speaking, you dont know what you have until its gone or taken away. Same thing applies here. THings always apppear greener on other pastures. From first hand expereinces, when i meet people from South America & Spain who have made Mexico thier home, they have always said that thier impression of Mexico wasnt all that. These are some of the things they have said about Mexico *too informal. just to casual. we cant meet somebody the first time around and start horseplaying (albures, doble sentidos, etc) and that can be offensive to some people. Phuck them! *too nationalistic and patriotic. too full of our culture and our traditions. that we tend to joke about other Latin countries, etc But as time passes they realize that Mexico is a peaceful country. A country that has not seen full blown war in 80 years. An economy that is stable (though sometimes it has its bad moments). A country that emphasizes family rather than work (family first work second). A country that its terrorism or Civil unrest is not a part of life. That amongst Latin COuntries, our freedoms of speech and expressions are less interefered with than other latin countries. That the wealth is being spread out more and more. There is still a lot of work to be done I'm talking in general, not only about the footy players. In footy, players like Medford and Soto have said that Mexican players complain about things they shouldnt complain about. That they have everything, They have money, nice life syles, nice stadiums, the facilities, that violence in the stands is not a way of life yet. I dont remember the name of the player from Liga (CR), but before we played them in the CCC, he also made a comment like that. These foreign players have it good in Mexico. One of the highest paying leagues in the world and these are salaries that could never be made back in thier native leagues. Does the Mexican player take that for granted? Probably so, but everybody has different battles to fight. While a foreigner may have come to just make money and he wont say a thing because he has it now, I dont think its right for him to say we have nothing to fight for. There are other things players look for and want. They want more control of thier future, they want less congested calender. SOme foreigner that just keeps his mouth shut because he is content is not really doing anything good for out soccer. And they say we are content.
Absolutely right mejulian. If a player receives his citizenship then he should be able to play for El Tricolor. This talk of "he won't play balls out for Mexico" is simply nonsense and is in my opinion misplaced nationalism. I remember when some Chivas fans were upset when the team signed Gerardo Mascareño some years back because even though he grew up in Mexico and represented the country internationally at the youth level he was born in the US (to Mexican parents) and may not have been "Mexican " enough. In Ecuador we have used nationalized players and the vast majority opinion is as long as they're recognized constitutionally as citizens of the country then they're welcome to play for our national team. The same applies to the US. Look how much success the US achieved with "nationalized" players like Dooley and Stewart. Mexico faces a dilemma as apart from Marquez and Torrado they don't have many players between the ages of 24-28, the prime of a futbolista's career, who are good players. Remember this age group failed to qualify for the 2000 Olympics as sub-23. Mexico has a large group of players nearing the end of their careers internationally-Arellano, Blanco, Borgetti, Carmona, Palencia, etc. and many of their young players are still a bit green so the national team needs to rely on a core of players 24-28 and right now those players are not stepping up. As for Nery Castillo, I have seen him play for Olympiacos and he looked quite good. In fact at the pub where we watched the game we were all wondering who this player, who none of us had ever heard of before, was as he was quite active and skilled. In the game I saw Castillo play he was more or less playing as a media punta and showed a lot of mobility and skill. He would be an excellent addition to Mexico's national team.
Absolutely right mejulian. If a player receives his citizenship then he should be able to play for El Tricolor. Im sorry, but Naturalized citizens do not and should not have every right as those who have direct lineage or those born on Mexican Soil. There is a reason a naturlized citizen can not become the president of Mexico. This talk of "he won't play balls out for Mexico" is simply nonsense and is in my opinion misplaced nationalism. Is it misplaced nationalism to not let a non Mexican or naturalized Mexican into the presidency? Its the same. Those are positions that should be exclusively for Mexicans I remember when some Chivas fans were upset when the team signed Gerardo Mascareño some years back because even though he grew up in Mexico and represented the country internationally at the youth level he was born in the US (to Mexican parents) and may not have been "Mexican " enough. And thats their right. In Ecuador we have used nationalized players and the vast majority opinion is as long as they're recognized constitutionally as citizens of the country then they're welcome to play for our national team. The same applies to the US. Look how much success the US achieved with "nationalized" players like Dooley and Stewart. I dont care what they do or how they do it in Ecuador or in the US. Quite frankly I dont give a shyt. I just dont want naturalized players on the team. Mexico faces a dilemma as apart from Marquez and Torrado they don't have many players between the ages of 24-28, the prime of a futbolista's career, who are good players. I think you are mistaken. Its actually at those ages when mexican players are good. What Lavolpe has you thinking is that we are not producing Maradonas and Hugo at the age of 17. Name me one country that has those to players right now. Remember this age group failed to qualify for the 2000 Olympics as sub-23. One yyear of internal turmoil. But the players were not the problem. But player selection was. Mexico has a large group of players nearing the end of their careers internationally-Arellano, Blanco, Borgetti, Carmona, Palencia, etc. and many of their young players are still a bit green so the national team needs to rely on a core of players 24-28 and right now those players are not stepping up. Thats what they said about the Blancos, Palencias, Carmonas. Davinos, when they were the Pitys, Mendezs, etc. Lavolpe is full of pretexts. He keeps saying that but keeps contradicting himself. He says in Germany they do this. In Argentina they do that. In Brazil they do this. They keep pumping new player year after year. If thats so true, why have Matheus for 5 WC. Why have Batistuta for 3 WC. Why have other players play 2-3 WC? Lavolpe is scaring the people (more like lying). Lavolpe is set on a numbers and is bounded by this numbes. He thinks that if a kid isnt ready to be the next maradona at age 18, then everything its a failure. He calls every youth coach a failure. No wonder he doesnt have friends. Its real easy to criticize the people below you.
Naturalized person have every right that a mexican has and have to be considered as Mexican as a Mexican born or a person with Mexican descent. But this is soccer and its different. You don´t know if they do it to be Mexican or because they have no chance. Plus must of these players are from either Argentina or Brazil. Are they doing this because they don´t have a chance in their NT? Are they doing it because they want to stay in their clubs ? If Pony Ruiz and Dario Franco want to be Mexican, they could have been naturalized after they retired and not give a spot for another foreigner when they can´t even play for Mexico acording to FIFA rules. Mexico has to give chances to Mexican instead of guys that it ain´t clear if they are their for Mexico or for their soccer career.
Exactly Rafael, there are different cases. Many players do it because they do not have a chance at home, but many other make Mexico their actual homes. Why deny them the working right that the country itself is giving to them? There is a long way between a footy player and the president of a nation. There are also specific reasons for having a 100% Mexican as president. It's about national security and sovereignty. Footy is only a game and should never be compared with politics, it just does not have the same impact fr the nation. I'm surprised of seeing this reactions against the foreigners and their working rights. Specially because I've got the feeling that this forum has many Mexican members living in the US.
I agree. Naturalized people should have every right that can facilitate his well being in Mexico. But playing on the national team is not a right, its a privelidge. Its an honor. You do it for your family, your flag, but most importantly your country above all other reasons. Now, I have heard Nery on 3 different interviews now. The AUF has approached him before in fact long before the FMF even knew of him. He can play mid or forward. He is good enough to play in Uruguay as well as in Mexico. So to say he is inclined to go with Mexico says something. For his pops to call up some people Lavolpe knew and to make that contact says something. For his father, a native Uruguayan, to tell his son who was born in Mexico, Mexico is your future... says something But, Alex, Gaitan are not good enough to be on the Arg Nt. And thats why they want to play.. thats an insult. I dont care if a player is there because he loves Mexico or wants to ensure a bigger and fatter paycheck until the end of his career.. Its not our right to say why he is doing it, but it not thier right to play for the MNT
Exactly Rafael, there are different cases. Many players do it because they do not have a chance at home, but many other make Mexico their actual homes. Why deny them the working right that the country itself is giving to them? We are not denying them anything. If a Naturalized player ever said that he is denied to play soccer, it wouldnt never hold in court. Because the National Team, in thoery is not a division. But natys are allowd in Mexico. But whats worse... denying a naturalized Mexican the right to play for the MNT OR denying a born Mexican the priviledge to play for his mother country? There is a long way between a footy player and the president of a nation. There are also specific reasons for having a 100% Mexican as president. It's about national security and sovereignty. I can just picture it, Mexico in the locker room and the Argie coach is giving a motivational speech. The players are saying yeahh, lets beat those phucking starving Argie bast.ards... and then the coach looks at the player who said that. SORRYY kiddoooo.. Mexico is for Mexicans. I dont hate foreigners. I am not against foreigners. But I am pro Mexican. I dont believe in giving opportunity to outsiders, then Mexicans. Mexico did that for too long not only on the fields, but in every day world. We can go back to that phucking Nemesio Diez (who they consider a great man, I consider him a piece of shyt) phucking over Mexicans for foreigners. Using Mexican funds and loans and giving the money to his friends that suffered from the Spanish Civil war when we had many more suffering. No wonder Pepe Cardozo loved him. When Cardozo;s knee was shattered around 95, Diez said you are still on the team and bent over for him. Where was that type of assurance for the Mexican player? You are injured and you are let go? Footy is only a game and should never be compared with politics, it just does not have the same impact fr the nation. The point was there are positions that should not be given to people that dont have any type of alliegance to Mexico. Allegiance to a country based on paper is no allegiance at all. Like Hugo said, there should be no reason why there should be naturalized execs in the FMF. Kiese, Fuchi apestsos (or what ever his name is), or Codesal. Those guys are more controversial and are only here for the $$$? I'm surprised of seeing this reactions against the foreigners and their working rights. Specially because I've got the feeling that this forum has many Mexican members living in the US. Both my folks are Mexicans. Father is a professional, was transferred to the US on business. was born in the US, but taken back to Mexico as a kiddo. Lived my first 8 years in Mexico. And every place i have lived, I ate like a Mexican, spoke like a Mexican. My mother didnt trade in las Mañanitas for Happy Birthday. My folks forbid me to go with friends during holidays (and now that they dont have control over me, I wont have it any other day but to spend time with my direct family), I didnt trade in Microwav dinner for a hot Mexican meal. We still have property in Mexico, have businesses in Mexico. In fact my folks live in China. And there is a good possibility that they will move to London... If they do, you cant bet I will move with them But every place I go, i respect their culture, thier tradititions... but I am Mexican and will die Mexican. Do you prefer a toritilla over sliced bread? Yeah Do I prefer a torta over a sandwhich? Hell Yeah Being Mexican just doesnt mean you have to live your whole life in the country. I have lived half of my life in other parts.
Exactly my point, if you move to England, how do you feel if you cannot get a job because they say that 'England is for the English'? Those kind of nationalisms are the root of many of the problems we have faced as human beings. Allegiance? Do you really believe that Blanco or Palencia play for love for the country? Can you really take that concept to a footy pitch? Is just a game, nothing more than that. I won't feel any allegiance just because they use the colors of the flag in their shirts. At the end of the day, the players are just workers, not national symbols. I'm not saying that foreigners should get priority. I'm just reckon that they should be considered equally.
Exactly my point, if you move to England, how do you feel if you cannot get a job because they say that 'England is for the English'? Those kind of nationalisms are the root of many of the problems we have faced as human beings. If I were to move to England, had legal papers, and were denied work, then I would complain. But thats not the point. No one is denying work. No one is denying them anything. THey can work in Mexico. They can live in Mexico. They can vote in Mexico. They can own in Mexico. They can play professional football in Mexico. But thier are certain positions that should be for Mexicans only. This pissed me off to no other. America VS Peñaron in the Copa Teresa Herrera. We lost in PKs. Did you see that replay where Loco points to the GK where he is going to shoot it? We lost in PKS to them. Whats to say that Gaitan, Alez wont do that? Just by studies, you will be more inclined and feel more comfotable to the surroundings you knew at first. Your likes and your allegiances are developed subconsciously. Actually, though people dont want to say it because they will be classified as a racist or Ethnocentricist, diversifying has led to more problems. How else did the Roman Empire fall? by diversifying. You keep your national interest above all else. But when you put a "naty" as magistrate (or other high ranking official) in Gaul and in other parts of the province, and have psuedo romans, Roman policy is set second. Allegiance? Do you really believe that Blanco or Palencia play for love for the country? I'll be honest. At first I didnt. I thought they were about money. But the fact that Blanco actually went 9 months without a pay day in Valladolid, and did everything to want to stay, changed my view about him. Can you really take that concept to a footy pitch? Is just a game, nothing more than that. I won't feel any allegiance just because they use the colors of the flag in their shirts. At the end of the day, the players are just workers, not national symbols. Its a sense of pride. THe Romans treated their best warriors very well, becuase they were an example to follow. I'm not saying that foreigners should get priority. I'm just reckon that they should be considered equally. getting a naty wont solved problems and in the long run will cost us more money. plain and simple. Why pay youth programs, youth coaches, why have 4th and 3rd division professional leagues. We should just do away with that, and hire mercs. Because that is what they are. MERCS. Alex, is a nobody in Brazil. He struck Gold in Mexico. Gaitan is known in Argentina, but not good enough. DO you honeslty think they ever planned to to play for Mexico? I dont I am willing to bet my balls that as kiddos and maybe up until thier late teens, they had the illusions of going to Europe and coming back for national team games... becoming the next garrincha, maradona, socrates, ruggerri, Kempes, etc. THier dreams didnt come true. FIne. Live with it. But why take our dreams away? Those kids who wore Hugo shirt as a kid? Those who idolized Enrique Borja? Those who wanted to be the next Tato Carbajal?
Im not saying they are not Mexican. They are as mexican as they can't be and nobody has the right to tell them that they arent mexican or what is a mexican, etc. But soccer is different and they can't allow players otherwise its going to become a NT for players not good enough to play in their own. Mexican players are not going to be produced and its going to be a just like the clubs where they try to fix everything pluggin foreigners.
************ let me ask you a question. If you had two children, and one was adopted. Would they be treated as equals or would the adopted one be consider not truly your son by you?
I dont play what ifs unless I know its the only way I am going to get in her pants Aside from that I try to keep is realistic. But if you want me to answer, I dont want adpoted children. I want to have my own. But I know where you are trying to get. I know culture, nationalism, and patriotism are not hereditary. They are learned traits that are passed on from population to population. Those who leave the population that learned those traits will still resemble thier previos triats. I understand Mexicans of Lebonese decent eat an "Arabic" diet combines with the Mexican diet. I understand that Mexicans of any descent will still have some sort of traits from before.... But are you going to pick them up at a much later time than in your infancy? As an adult, you just adapt.
The difference is on how we see footy, ************. You talk about culture, nationalism and patriotism, while I only reckon footy as a beautiful game to enjoy on my free time. Thus, we'll never agree since I really couldn't care less about the purity of the national side.
It is a beautiful game. And like any sport, pride is involved. Or else you wouldnt be the least interested. There is a difference between a fan and just a spectator. Those of us that are against using naturalized players and limiting the number of foreigners are being categorized as xenophobics. Its not even about that. It has to do with protecting the integrity of the "game". If you reckon its a beautiful "game", a game by definition is just a diversionary pastime or hobby. But by using mercs, it stops being a game and more of a business. Whats next? When is enough? Are we that cynical? Are we that afraid to fail that we would rather take the easy way out? Are we that afraid to risk and see the younger crops flourish? Im sorry, but when naties only produce 2-4 goals per season, i think its a slap in the face considering any young Mexican player would give you those results as well.
HES NOT URUYAN HES ARGENTINIAN HE WAS BORN IN MEXICO BUT RAISED IN ARTENTINA HIS DAD PLAYED IN MEXICO. HIS DAD IS ASKING LAVOLPE TO LET HIM PLAY FOR MEXICO.
Since you love the what ifs here is one for you... What would you rather see, Mexico win the WC with 6 foreigners and 5 Mexicans OR Mexico place last at the WC with 11 Mexicans. I would prefer last with 11 Mexicans because I know where we stand and I know where we have to work. Roberto Gomez Bolaños (Chespirito) said about 2 weeks ago that he stopped being a soccer fan. That he does not get excited about the game anymore. He doesnt like the fact that players are willing to dive and create fouls, rather then be a MAN and admit they lost the ball/position on the ball. They take the easy way out. And using naties is taking the easy way out. I know Lavolpe would love to call in Zinha, Alex, Gaitan... but would that really solve all of Mexico's problems at the youth levels? I dont see how it would help. So when I hear Hugo and Lapuente saying that, it makes me proud. Lavolpe saying we dont have any players. And the same week Lapuente and Hugo saying I'd be willing to work with those players.
i dont know? all of a sudden... we have mejulian, moreliano, picazo..... i hope none are sock puppets
olympiakos player argentinian yes i was that person i was told he was going there i was led to beleive wrong. but i saw the news he was born in argentina his dad was on the phone saying his son was argentinian descent, but was born in mexico. ALL THESE IDIOTS SAYING HE IS GETTING CALLED FOR URUGUY IS ALL LIES HE IS ARGENTINIAN HE CANT GET CALLED FOR URUGUY HE WAS BORN IN MEXICO TO BEGIN WITH SO KEEP LOOKING IT UP MAN HES ARGENTINIAN
Lol, no offense but, did you really quoted Chespirito as a basis on a serious argument? I'm not a sock puppet, I can give you some links to other forums where I post.