Nations League Italia vs Portugal and U.S. Friendly

Discussion in 'Italy: National Teams' started by toronto_soccer, Nov 8, 2018.

  1. totti fan

    totti fan Red Card

    Jun 24, 2010
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Fvck the centre forward position. For Italy to have any chance at the Euros they need to (like Conte) approach football from a tactically astute angle. the best I've seen them play the last few years was against Poland w/out a CF. They were able to generate an abundance of chances and were dictating the terms of the game and with pace. There weren't enough chances being created yesterday for the amount of dominance in the mid, because we built the system around that donkey up front.

    Mancini needs to field a competent 11 because w/out a world class centre forward the system will not work. One thing Italy still does well is produce managers, so as long as he doesn't show his hand too early an unpredictable approach may just be an interesting option.
     
  2. totti fan

    totti fan Red Card

    Jun 24, 2010
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    sides will often do that. play defensive for 60-70m and that come out and hit the other side in the last 20m. Donnaruma made a great save to save our blushes. If Portugal had decided to play that way for the 90m how much possession and chances would italy have created. they literally said to the Italians heres the ball do your worst we're not scared.

    Italys poor scoring record over the last few years speaks volumes for the problems this side has. late winner against Poland, loss against Portugal, nil all etc. Yes they are missing chances, but the volume of chances for the quantity of possession in particular are few and far between.
     
  3. totti fan

    totti fan Red Card

    Jun 24, 2010
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    very similar comments to mine, nice one.
     
  4. totti fan

    totti fan Red Card

    Jun 24, 2010
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    dogma
     
  5. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Just a point of interest. Last year both Silva and Cutrone had equal opportunity to prove themselves for Milan. Cutrone did, Silva did not. Silva is playing and scoring for Portugal. Cutrone hasn't had a fair shot yet.

    Falvo, rankings determine the seeding your stubborn mudder fuccer :p

    And Tottifan has great insight, Immobile is definitely a horrible midfielder, lol.
     
  6. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Watching Roberto Mancini and Giorgio Chiellini on Rai's Che Tempo Che Fa ....

    Mancini picked a kid born in 2000 to debut against the USA...


    Italy boss Roberto Mancini has called up Sandro Tonali, the midfielder …

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

     
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  7. Nek Sanalet

    Nek Sanalet BigSoccer Yellow Card

    AC Milan
    Italy
    Dec 30, 2013
    NYC
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Many of us agree with you that Mancini should stop using a CF until one can finally prove himself. Going with a false 9 or revolving wingers taking the center spot seems like the best bet at the moment. I was hoping Mancini would go with the initial reports of him playing Berardi over Immobile, unfortunately he wimped out in the end. Still, I'm not sure what the midfield has to do with any of this, unless you refuse to see how well Verratti played yesterday. Italy had numerous chances to score, including these six below that should of resulted in (a worst case scenario for almost any other team) at least one goal....

    1. Insigne's long range shot.
    2. Immobile's rebound that he shanked horribly. It was such an epic miss that I would of pulled him from the game right then and there.
    3. Through ball to Immobile from Verratti that Ciro should of chipped for goal.
    4. Wide open Bonucci header that went just wide.
    5. Chiesa's wide open shot that went left.
    6. Pelligrini's wide open header that was hit directly and weakly at the keeper.

    Regardless, the midfield looked lost only a few games ago, where they were being overrun and abused by everyone not named Saudi Arabia. As soon as Verratti came back from injury, and Mancini decided to start Barella, this midfield has dominated every match since. Not only are they keeping possession, and pinning defenses back, they are giving our CB's some breathing room...which has resulted in two straight clean sheets, after giving up goals in 8 straight!!
     
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  8. gumbacicc

    gumbacicc Member+

    Dec 7, 2004
    USA
    It goes both ways. We saw how Portugal plays under this manager multiple times. They are very negative and look to hit teams off the break. Yesterday wasn't much different. Had they opened up, you can bet it would have been easier for our forwards to find space and, frankly, that's the only way Immobile was going to score.

    The poor scoring record over the last few years has everything to do with the fact that we lack quality in attack. The last good generation of attackers we had was the Del Piero/Totti/Inzaghi years. There has been a steep decline ever since.

    The point I am trying to make is that at least we are starting to see some quality play and chances created of late. It's hard not to be encouraged.
     
  9. gumbacicc

    gumbacicc Member+

    Dec 7, 2004
    USA
    Until we start seeing Cutrone starting regularly for Milan (and scoring) it's hard to say he's the answer to our problem. Against Juve, Gattuso played the Spaniard to flank Higuain...and Castillejo is nothing special. That's telling.
     
  10. gumbacicc

    gumbacicc Member+

    Dec 7, 2004
    USA
    Agreed...and I think in large part it comes down to the quality of those three. Verratti and Jorginho both play key roles for big clubs. My guess is that Barella will soon. As France showed us yet again this past summer, the team with the best talent usually wins. We are a top #9 away from truly becoming competitive at the world stage.
     
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  11. 'Uaglio

    'Uaglio Member+

    Jun 8, 2004
    NYC
    Gattuso is saddled with Higuain. You aren't going to get a bigger choker than Gonzalo. He chokes in key moments more than any "big time" player in recent memory. Rino thinks he has to keep playing him because of the money spent on him. He doesn't want to go with 2 forwards because he thinks the midfield can't handle it.

    Such a waste because when Cutrone does come on, he's always dangerous as hell. Very Inzaghi-like for a 20 yr old kid.

    Immobile has brick feet and should be nothing but a super sub to counter when we have leads. Pavoletti and Inglese are journeymen. Really Belotti and Cutrone are the only quality prime punte we have right now. Kean is still a long way off. Pellegri has talent but he's barely played at Monaco and he's been injured a lot.
     
  12. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
  13. Alex101

    Alex101 Member

    Mar 15, 2017
    Props to Mancini though never before has a coach given this much chances and attention young italians, He's helping changing the mindset for Italian coaches in serie a, Lippi would never call up anyone younger then 25. Tonali will be a star as long as he doesnt go to Juventus, who have become a graveyard for italian players.
     
  14. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    #139 Calcio Pauly, Nov 18, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2018
    It's telling us that Cutrone is going to be Higuain's sub for the most part, and Gattuso is trying to keep his job. Same from most all Milan coaches in the past few years.

    It's par for the course these days with Serie A teams, though the tide might be turning. Bernard still isn't a guaranteed starter for Juve, nor Pellegrini for Roma.

    So my point was that Silva who was in the same spot for Milan last year, not getting regular time, was already getting regular time for and scoring for Portugal, while at Milan Cutrone was out performing him.

    The international game isn't higher quality than club, especially the big clubs who compete in Europe regularly. Cutrone scores when he comes on. That's good enough for him to have seen more than a few minutes, especially with whom he's competing against on the national team for a spot.

    We either give these kids a chance or we get more of what we saw from Immobile. I wouldn't miss seeing him in blue.
     
  15. r0adrunner

    r0adrunner Member+

    Jun 4, 2011
    London, UK
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    I think this season Pellegrini should be considered a starter for Roma.
     
  16. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Anyone have commentary on the 5-2 beating Belgium took from Switzerland yesterday? Today France might drop to Holland, who also missed the world cup. This nations league looks to have a bunch of weak teams in final if we only consider the world cup as a basis for measure, or does it speak to something more, like one or two games a few months apart are really hard to draw definitive conclusions from? One mistake, or bad choice can cost you big in tournaments where corrections over the course of a whole season are not possible.

    @falvo, you were asking about seedings?

    "Seeding
    Seeding of teams into the six drawing pots will be based on results of Nations League 2018/2019 group stage (which will run before start of classic qualification - from September to November 2018). For example Pot 1 will include best 10 teams in overall ranking from League A, Pot 2 will include worst 2 teams from League A and best 8 teams from League B and so on. Overall ranking is based on position in group, then earned points, goal difference, scored goal, scored away goals, number of wins, number of away wins, disciplinary points, coefficient. In other words, the group winners will always be best-ranked (among teams from same League). Position of these four winners will then be based on points, goal difference etc. The group runners-up will be ranked on 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th position. Then follow next postitions and then next Leagues

    Read more: http://m.footballseeding.com/international-tournaments/euro-2020/

    So Italy has at least secured pot 1 seeding by finishing second.
     
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  17. gumbacicc

    gumbacicc Member+

    Dec 7, 2004
    USA
    Higuain starts over Cutrone because he is still the far better player. Bernardeschi is a rotation player for Juve because Allegri has Dybala, Douglas Costa, Mandzukic, and Cuadrado as other options. It isn't as if there is some conspiracy to block young Italian talent.
     
  18. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    So this means instead of playing for peanuts, they are now playing for seeds?
     
  19. calabrese8

    calabrese8 Member+

    Feb 9, 2008
    Vancouver
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Tell that to the 70K plus fans who were at the game. People do care about the national team.
     
  20. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    #145 Calcio Pauly, Nov 19, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2018
    None of that matters or addresses the point I was making.

    Silva was not starting for Milan last year, but was playing regularly for Portugal and scoring. Cutrone was outperforming him regularly then, and continues to score regularly when he comes on now and can't get a sniff. Immobile, while regular for Lazio is a stiff for Italy. Cutrone should have had more than a few minutes by now considering Mancini has already given other players who are not guaranteed starters more time. The #9 position has no answer right now.

    The conspiracy comment is a low lever straw man deflection that I'd expect from someone like Tottifan, not you.

    @falvo. We are not in the 90's anymore
     
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  21. r0adrunner

    r0adrunner Member+

    Jun 4, 2011
    London, UK
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    In the little I have seen of Cutrone I have not got the impression he is potentially the solution to Italy's striking problem, but I am prepared to bow to the judgement of those who have seen more of him.
     
  22. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    He may or may not be, but given that the position is basically up for the taking and a Lasagna is getting time, there's no better time to give him more than a few minutes.
     
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  23. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Dear Signore @falvo, I was hoping you might clarify something for me... :)

    [​IMG]
     
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  24. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    What's there to clarify? Nothing has really changed since I posted those comments.
     
  25. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Then why is everyone sleeping soundly in Italy today because Italy lost? My cousins in Rome told me yesterday, they have nightmares when Roma or Lazio lose but could care less when the national team has a loss...
     

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