Ya this debate rages off and on here ... .ya, and usually I'm lured in. Well, first off, I know somebody born in Italy, follows Italian soccer religiously, yet would cheer for Canada against Italy. So it's unpredictable. It's unpredictable cuz it's emotional. My mother is German, my grandmother German and grandfather Austrian on her side, so we don't have to go back to 18th century, yet, there are many teams I would cheer for over Germany. I have an interest in Germany, for sure, especially in its history (when I read about uh ... Arminius defeating the Romans I feel maybe a little pride, I dunno, and their role in WW 2 makes me disgusted). But nothing makes me want them to win a soccer game over a team that represents where I live. So who knows ... seems almost like an accident of brain cells where somebody ends up on this. I do think tho that where somebody was born (and where they live) is part of what they are.
look up the full title of #1 and you will see that it's actual name was Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation Heiliges Römisches Reich Deutscher Nation. and ntm most of your other names are totally wrong. if you really wanted to know about WTF I was talking about, here you go. As you can see, my ancestor fought THREE different wars for "Canada" before it was even a state. perhaps you should look up the definition of nation before you go and spew your hate-speech again. The American Heritage Dictionary defines "nation" as: A people who share common customs, origins, history, and frequently language; a nationality: "Historically the Ukrainians are an ancient nation which has persisted and survived through terrible calamity" (Robert Conquest). now, let's take a look at Canada, does it share: Customs: NO Origins: NO History: NO Language: HELL NO! there is such a thing as a Canadian state, but you are confusing that with nation, it is not the same thing, and a nation-state is yet another totally different thing. Do you not remember that debate a while ago about whether Quebecois was a nation? The Canadian government can issue me all the papers it wants, it still won't make me any less German, or Scottish, or Irish, or Native American. I never tried to deflect blame you twat, I simply stated that not all Nazis are Germans, and not all Germans are Nazis, which you can't seem to get through your thick skull. And then I cited an example of exactly what I said. I know that many Germans did horrible things during WWII, and I have never condoned or denied that. I have however tried to point out that you are dead wrong and painting all people of a certain race with the same brush... something that guess who did? that's right, the Nazis. and you aren't any better. It's sad that someone has to resort to racist slander against me just because I don't support his soccer team over mine.
I never said it wasn't, and I never said I wasnt a patriotic Canadian, at the beginning of November I am joining the Canadian Forces. As for the German involvement in WWII, I will leave that pretty much alone, but again, you can't paint everyone with the same brush. Most were fighting to protect their loved ones at home, not for the fuehrer, just like how Canadians and Brits weren't fighting for freedom, they were fighting to protect their people. In war there are many despicable acts, you cannot hold the whole nation accountable for what some people did. That would be like banning all Canadians from playing hockey for the Todd Bertuzzi hit.
Jadger, you are full of crap. Where did I paint anythng about anybody. Maybe you should learn how to read or at least to determine who said what. Go back, read the posts and maybe reread yours. I will accepot your apology when you are man enough to give it. You sound like a little boy,
Oh and by the way. In the event your military career ends you up in Afghanistan for a tour and you find yourself in trouble don't expect your ancestral pals to help you out. They don't like to leave their compound and wasn't it recently that some of them came crawling on their knees begging the Canadian people not to cut and run but to stay and fight since they don't appear to have the cajones to do it. No, if you get in trouble it will likely be some white catholic kid or a tanned protestant boy or maybe a dark skinned lad who traces his roots to Africa or a determined women whose folks were boat people 35 years ago or an older francophone man nearing the end of his military career or a sturdy boy whose grandparents were helped out by men like my dad when they liberated the dutch and helped feed them over the winter of 45. Maybe it will be some kid whose parents were ridiculed when they spoke because of their accent. But for sure don't if you get in trouble don't expect your favourite footballing nation's warriers to help you out but do expect one of those men and women who you say are not of a nation, who somehow don't really matter because heck they have been Canadians only for such a short time, and what is a canadian anyways according to you. Lastly, don't get yourself in trouble as we want all our people to come home and if you or your mates do get in trouble bring them all back. We never leave our people behind.
Fair enough Jadger, except for the bit about no such thing as a Canadian "nation". Ethnic unity is not a requirement of nationhood; every nation on earth has ethnic diversity within its borders - even Germany. But German hockey? EEEEUUUUUWWWWW!
Ya, I understand. There were Germans of all kinds. Most of em just sucked into the vortex. Hey it could happen anywhere if criminals take over a government, and the economic conditions are in the toilet ... And today, I mean, the laws in Germany regarding racism are more harsh probably than anywhere else. Etc!
I think i must have stumbled into the wrong board. I thought this was a soccer board not a WWII discussion.
F*ck you you racist bastard! except Germany has deployed more troops than Canada has, and is allowed to engage in hostile actions with the Taliban. again, do some research before spewing. They are not allowed to take the offensive in the South and East of Afghanistan unless under special circumstances. That does not mean they are not allowed to fight. when did I say that Canada "doesn't really matter"? I said Canada is not a nation, i did not say that you cannot fight for a state. Please, try to figure out the difference before coming back on here. And as for your blatant attempt at self-aggrandization, my great grandfather served all of WW2 in the RCAF, yes, the German one. my German ancestors have fought in every single war for Canada that they were of-age to. So don't try some patriotic duty BS. remember, I am the one joining the army, not you Coward.
Yes, I know about the Sorbs and the other ethnic minorities, but for the most part, Germany is "German". Whereas Canada, well, take a look at the census. Take for example this idea: close your eyes and picture a German, pretty easy right? becuz we all know our stereotypes. But then picture a Canadian: not so easy is it? and I mean a real Canadian, not these guys As for German hockey, they are quickly rising, getting better and better. 3rd most popular sport in Germany. I remember seeing a youtube clip of a DEL arena where the fans were even more hardcore than the soccer fans... but indoors
Berlin begs Ottawa to stay past 2009 With its public increasingly unnerved about terrorism and war, Germany implores Canada to stay the course for the greater good DOUG SAUNDERS From Friday's Globe and Mail <LI class=email _counted="undefined">E-mail Doug Saunders <LI class=bio _counted="undefined">| Read Bio | Latest Columns September 7, 2007 at 3:47 AM EDT BERLIN — Stung by a thwarted terrorist attack and facing their own ugly parliamentary debate over the war, German leaders are begging Canada to avoid withdrawing troops from Afghanistan in early 2009 as scheduled. "I want to say how much we appreciate what Canada is doing. We know that, for instance, about 100,000 Canadian soldiers lie in the European soil, [soldiers] that fought in two world wars begun by Germany. And it was never a question for Canada to defend our common values where it was needed," Eckart von Klaeden, Chancellor Angela Merkel's foreign-policy spokesman, said in an interview yesterday. "Canada is a really important country as a role model for others. It would have consequences for the whole alliance and for the whole Western world if Canada would leave Afghanistan." "In the war-plagued south, the loss of Canada and the Netherlands would leave only Britain and the United States, and NATO would be forced to press other nations, which have so far refused to enter this more intense battle, to send their troops into the line of fire. This has created an air of crisis in Germany, whose 3,500 troops are mostly engaged in non-combat work securing the relatively peaceful north of Afghanistan. Christian Schmidt, the German secretary of state for defence, said in an interview that Germany would not consider sending its troops south, beyond 100 special-forces soldiers and a fleet of Tornado aircraft that are supporting the U.S. Operation Enduring Freedom mission there, and suggested that Canada is damaging the solidarity of the NATO mission." Very nice Jadger, very nice. Like I said it won't be those Germans (well maybe the 100 who are actually allowed to fight) that got your back but a variety of different looking and speaking Canadians. You know the ones you look down on. Germany may be the 3rd greatest footballing nation after Brazil and Italy but when it comes to fighting no nation is better than Canada.
Mods, I vote that you kill this thread. It has gotten ridiculous and I will take responsibility for allowing my pride in Canada and all things Canadian to have gotten the better of my thread management judgement.
Ya this has been a bit of a train wreck - interesting - but a train wreck nonetheless... Or we could get back on topic here - I still thing TFC fans didn't show up because they didn't know there was a game, the tickets were overpriced, and the game started too early on a weeknight to allow some to get to the stadium for the 7:00 kickoff. Besides DeRo's awesome strike I'd say the other positives are that we now know some changes are in order for the next CMNT friendly at BMO. Or if nothing else we know what not to do when there is a WCQ at BMO. Whether the CSA will act on this is another story...
Wow, so our allies don't want us to pull out and leave them in the lurch, how's that news? Or even how's that even worth writing an article about, it's common sense. And there is a reason the German troops are not involved in offensive operations, actually two of them, and they both start with "World War". Germany's military is a self-defence force, until Kosovo in 1997 it was not allowed to send its troops on missions outside of its borders. so stop insinuating that the German military is a bunch of pus$ies because they are not in the area of fighting we are. They are our allies, they are still fighting and dying alongside us.
Ya so back to the game Make the tickets cheaper and promote the game better. People will show up. sounds like the perfect last post in this waste of a thread doesn't it? ^