Except it's not very likely any time soon. Atlanta is getting an MLS team. Unless Arthur Blank suddenly buys them out of the clear blue sky, it's not going to be the Silverbacks. Minneapolis is likely to be in MLS. United is competing for the spot, but with two other entities with far more resources, including Vikings owner Zygi Wilf, it's not looking promising that the team will be Minnesota United. San Antonio, while they do look good, isn't likely to be in MLS. The rumbling when they started getting together was that MLS didn't want a third team in Texas yet. Currently, they haven't produced a "WOW!" factor like Orlando or Sacramento. If they have sold out their SSS, it hasn't been very often. At best, they are back of the line behind Miami, Minneapolis and Sacramento. The wild card either way could be the rumors of the Oakland Raiders moving to San Antonio. It might give a boost to energize the Scorpions and put them over the top, or it could sap the market's consumer resources and make MLS impossible. Indy is a distinct possibility. But as good as they're doing, there isn't as great a fervor to get an MLS team there as there is in other markets. They could be energized for the run to 28 teams. No other team in NASL is likely to make it to MLS. MLS has flat out told David Beckham they will not accept a South FL team in Broward County, so there's no way the Strikers will make it independently (unfortunately, IMHO). The Rowdies have shown zero interest in going up. Carolina, always a dark horse and BS favorite, doesn't have any tangible interest in reality. Jacksonville and OKC (maybe) are way too soon to tell. Jacksonville is probably too small a market, and carries a media-driven stigma that the Jaguars suffer from today. OKC...well., let's be honest, they'd need to prove they're better than Energy FC before they even think of an MLS bid. And personally, I'm not that big on either of them making it. Virginia will never share the market in MLS with DC United. And forget about Edmonton and Ottawa. Maybe if there was an independent top flight in Canada, but they are way too small for MLS.
Pretty much agree with everything you wrote. My comments are Why would Blank buy the Silverbacks? If they were drawing Indiana or Sacramento numbers, then he'd have a very strong incentive to partner with people who have a track record of putting butts in seats for soccer. Without those numbers, he'd be paying for the Silverbacks brand name. Personally, I like the name, but not enough to pay 6 figures for it. I thought the Vikings were one group and Minny United were partnered with the other group that owns the baseball team. Is there a third group?
That's pretty much exactly what I was suggesting. All I added was "unless he buys them out of the clear blue sky". I've seen no suggestion he's interested in that. The writing's on the wall that the Silverbacks may need to move elsewhere. I wasn't aware of United being linked to either group. If they're connected with the other group (which, according to what you said, would be the Twins), then it would be two groups. I'd still lean more toward Zygi. He used MLS as a selling point for his stadium, so I have a feeling he'll pull out all the stops to get it done in his favor.
There are two groups and United is linked to the Twins group. Still there hasn't been any visible movement with either group and their talks with MLS.
No offence, but what "WOW!" factor does Orlando City brings to the MLS that SA doesn't have? If you look at the teams, they pretty much mirror each other, with the exception how the team got started. Orlando took the team from Austin, while SA was an expansion team. Attendance wise both teams play for the same crowd. Both average upper 6k for attendance. (except this season where OC is only averaging 4500?) The only advantage that OC has is that they are in the SE, and that is why OC got the spot. Name one thing SA does not have that the MLS has asked for? We have a stadium, unlike OC. Yes there are two other teams in Texas, but guess what they are at min 3 hours away. SA is one of the largest cities in the US, TV market is very underrated. If you just count SA then its not big, however if you count Austin, and South Texas then it is very attractive. And lets not ignore Mexico and how many visit SA on a daily basis. The one thing that is holding back SA is the $$ investor, but the owner has stated that there have been several step forward. And for me that is the easiest to bring in. And to get the stadium ready it is only about 40 million, which compared to others is very inexpensive. Look not saying that MiniU does not have a great shot, and to me they have the advantage, Sacramento would be perfect for LA2, but they are in the San Jose market. (which is a hell of a lot closer than Houston or Dallas to SA) Personally, I don't think Miami gets off the ground, they have Beckham, but not much else going for them. So while it seems that there is only 1 spot, it would not shock me that there will actually be 2.
It's not necessarily a "WOW!" factor being brought into MLS. It's regarding how the fan base has been built. Orlando's attendance went up year-over-year our first three years. (It was forced down this year due to venue.) Sacramento's numbers were completely unexpected, and they sold out every home game once they moved into their "permanent" home. Sacramento was able to do something San Antonio couldn't. Why didn't the Scorpions regularly sell out Toyota Park after getting crazy numbers at the high school football field down the street? (And although MLS isn't saying anything, I would definitely support moving Chivas to Sacramento. The "San Jose market" argument got shot through this year, with games at their first venue exceeding what San Jose's capacity will be.) Venue is certainly not a holdback for San Antonio. I like what they've done with Toyota Park, and their expansion plan is certainly in place. While the investor issue is easy, where is it? And it's definitely looking less and less likely that Beckham is a shoo-in for one of the next two slots with Sacramento and Minneapolis making such huge strides, and still others waiting in the wings.
Let's give Sacramento a few years before we say it is a trend. Indy has been just as impressive with attendance this year. But being a first year club it's easier to bring the crowds. San Antonio lost a lot of momentum the second year with the team they put on the field. And the biggest mistake the Scorpions make was not keeping the core of the team for the Euro's that failed. Look all three teams have different but great qualities, but just like OC has. If I were to rank today 1. MiniU with the Vikings/ or twins. Even though MLS has said they want to have SSS, but like ATL they will make exceptions. 2. San Antonio. Has really met most of the demands that MLS says are important, but has to overcome national perception of small market. 3. Sacramento but they are moving in the right direction. But it's still CA and getting a stadium will be tough to get through. 4. Las Vegas/Miami stadium issues to start!
Well they did fire (not renew) the company that helped their marketing and sales in Year 1 right. I would be like Indy letting go of Peter before year 2 gets started.
Well while while they might not get into the MLS. It has brought the legitmacy to the NASL in which this is the topic of this thread. Good orginaztions in SA, Indy, MINN not getting a MLS club in their city is good for the NASL. Others like Tampa, have a much better owner now, and NY Cosmos are just waiting for their stadium site to get the OK. Ottawa is part of a great new Ownership group with a new stadium. FCE is still a work in progress but continue to make improvements and with Canada looking to add to the number of pro soccer teams support from outside sources are coming into play. Being so far away from the rest of the cities has not helped but will be better if the NASL can expand to the areas in the West and mid west
Orlando got a big edge as the MLS has chosen to again try to get franchises back into Florida and the Southeast coast. Gave a big edge to Atlanta as well over other cities with NFL or MLB owner backings. Even though it is not the Silverbacks, the city got an MLS franchise. What will happen with the Siverbacks now is up in the air. Silverback Park would be perfect for an Atlanta USL Pro side with the Falcon's/MLS using the new main stadium. Would they partner with the s'backs brand or partner with the stadium usage will be answered. The trouble that Miami is having may but a hold on a second Fla team. Starting off with just the Atlanta and Orlando club with two clubs in the region. As well having a second LA club may be something that may be best put on hold until a better situation can be found. Giving SAC an edge and another season to get things in place.
It's way too fuzzy right now to say where the NASL stands from what I see. MLS is on TV and in many cases, it doesn't really exist in the conciousness of the wider local or national sports fans' mindshare, so you can guess where NASL is. With the partnership of MLS and USL leading to many teams sprouting up down in USL, it's hard to say where NASL will fit in. The way I see it the ticket for American soccer leauges making big bucks is to continue to feed the potential contender that is the USMNT, that's where the big money is. The more the leagues create percieved synergy with that (feuling the national teams success), the more likely corporate sponsers will be willing to support clubs.
It is much too early to see how the NASL will play out in regards to MLS and its now official partner of USLPro as owned or affiliated minor league clubs to the MLS. NASL currently sitting as an independent D2 but still is taking loans from MLS clubs in some cases. While USLPro sits officially as D3 but now becoming fully affilited to MLS clubs with still some USLPro clubs being independent. NASL and USLPro are both beginning to build or reno venues to with higher and more modern amenities on some level. Logically it would make sense now that most of the MLS franchises have the SSS venues in place. Building better infrasture for the lower tier's is the next step. Whether the venues stand alone as SSS first or are multi purpose sharing with football (being converted to soccer minus football lines) or Minor League baseball ( where stadiums are built in such a way to be better suited to convert to Soccer).
I think it's funny that Jville is even mentioned in this discussion. They havent played a single game and people are already talking about MLS? lol And as for OKC, I don't care what the Energy ownership (or OKCFC ownership, for that matter) say about MLS. My feeling is, it ain't gonna happen. I've stated my reasons on another thread about this; 1. Energy FC do NOT have the money to move up 2. No SSS 3. OKCFC don't have the money to move up 4. No SSS 5. Too many other cities ahead in the race I just want them BOTH to shut up about it and market what they have, where they are. To be honest I haven't heard much at all from the OKCFC side about it, but Energy FC talks about it ALOT.
Jacksonville has a great chance of success. It is tweener city and Metro which does have one major league sport, be it that the NFL Jags are struggling, like a San Antonio, Sacremento etc. It is the largest city in Florida and has the 40th largest metro in the US. So the population is there. Another newer minor league baseball stadium looking to double as a lower division soccer home for a club, to add a second tenant and more dates for sports on the calender. Still yet to be proven a good formula as of yet, So time will tell if this will be a good combo. Still not the best seating of course for a soccer pitch but the newer Minor league stadium's seem to be built a bit better square size. Tampa Bay Rowdies owner has also put to use a temp seating set up to place seating for soccer closer to the pitch and on both sides. Jags owner owning Fulham so they will be in Jacksonville at Everbank where Armada could be the first match of a double header. It is a city owned field with a professional management group managing the stadium so cross promotion for baseball and soccer matches will be in place. If the club gains some traction a minor league SSS would be possible.
I dunno if city size for Jacksonville is a great indicator. Sure, the city proper is the largest in Florida, but bear in mind that the city is pretty much all of Duval County, with the exception of five small towns that did not buy into consolidation in the late 1960s. The metro area itself is just under 1.4 million, about 60% the size of Greater Orlando and half the size of Metro Tampa Bay.
With Raul, Cosmos Challenge MLS and the Structure of American Soccer http://www.capitalnewyork.com/artic...-structure-american-soccer?top-featured-image "For now, the Cosmos get one shot per year to prove themselves against the top division clubs, in the U.S. Open Cup competition. The team performed admirably, absolutely pummeling the Red Bulls, 3-0, before losing in Philadelphia to the Union on a truly awful call by an official. The extent to which this defined their season could be seen in both the postgame devastation and the grumblings of team officials, even months later. But most of the games for any team, the Cosmos or Real Madrid, are going to be league games. So it was revealing to hear O'Brien call it "unclear" whether MLS or the Cosmos' NASL will be the dominant league in five years, or even three."
I don't see vastly over paying near 40 years olds as a sign they are challenging anyone or changing anything. If anything it's an attempt to get butts in the seats and try to get any kind of coverage in NYC.
Oh mother of Gawd, this is all so delusional. The Cosmos get about 80,000 in TOTAL attendance. That's probably good for what? Like MAYBE $2M a year. What other revenue stream they got? Maybe one or two million in merch? So, being generous, let's say their revenue is $5M. The top MLS teams operatings costs are in the $50M range. So they have a $45M gap. I'm sure that there's money pouring in from...oh, that's right! No one knows who the owner is! But yeah, let's forget that half of NASL is trying to get in MLS and make this a neat fairytale. I just don't...
The NASL will/Could/should work on the scale of a teir2 league within the US/Canada landscape. There are other tier2 leagues within different sports which have been and continue to be successful. No reason to think that the NASL can't do this within the cities/metro's that have no MLS club. Wether a new expansion, or a city that is bidding for the MLS from NASL or USLPro. The ownership groups need to be backed or start with groups that are much better financially to sustain a MLS franchise. even the mighty cosmos would need to upgrade to a bigger MLS sized SSS that they own/ or manage. seems as though the Cosmo's may be getting that but they would also need to have more revenue generated from corporate partners and sponsors from what they are currently getting. As well a better local network to promote and televise Cosmos Content as well as the matches themselves. One World Sports which hardly anyone has access to in NYC Metro would not cut it.
I couldn't agree more. Look, pro/rel ain't gonna happen any time soon. That doesn't mean it's never going to happen, but before it does the US and Canada need a 24-or so team second division. When Garber says "no", that's what he's saying. No owner in MLS is going to give an NASL team a 1 in 8 chance of hitting a $100M (probably more like $150M) raffle at the expense of an MLS owner. If NASL teams are 24 strong and selling for say, 50% of what MLS teams are worth then it may happen. But right now they're worth 5%, or less.
Does anyone have any idea what this is based on? In the Open Cup that is not true. The Cosmos in particular are 1-1 against MLS teams. The NASL as a whole is 11-15. (Officially, 10-15-1 with one NASL advancement on PKs.)
I know not all MLS teams bring their A team to the US Open Cup, but that is a very good record for a league that is supposed to be a huge step down in terms of quality.