Ranger... As with Swangard, you draw people from multiple suburbs. It is ridiculous to say that a team in Coquitlam would only have the 125,000 that live in coquitlam. Add in Poco, Port Moody, Surrey, Maple Ridge, Pitt Meadows and Burnaby and you get a more fair number. \\
EXACTLY!!!! So how then, is having a team in Coquitlam (a muni with a 5th the population of Burnaby) going to do better, when there is an arguably larger population in the surrounding burbs of Burnaby? I live in Cloverdale (Surrey) and I only missed a handful of games this last year... Fact remains people will go if they want to go. There are no advantages to having a second tier pro team in Vancouver. Who will watch it? The price gap between MLS and what we currently pay will not be huge. The people that go to Swangard currently will move to BC Place with the "A" Caps, who will watch the "B" Caps? Nobody that has to pay to do so... Which is why it has to be moved outside the Metro Vancouver area... whether it is on Vancouver Island (Where the Highlanders already are...) or out of Province to Calgary or Edmonton, which are under/non-served markets. WFC's organization made it work in the worst of conditions in Vancouver/Burnaby for decades, they will have a plan in place if they decide to go to Edmonton, and if it doesn't turn out cash positive they will be making more money with the A team in BC Place to subsidize, or they will move it elsewhere, but I'll tell you one thing, if they can't make it work in Alberta, they certainly won't be able to make it work in Coquitlam of all place...
Well, if you are saying the Whitecaps should accept a money losing team in Edmonton for the long term; I must admit I dont get that logic. If it loses money they should move it elsewhere ; not pump money into a pit. My whole "Coquitlam" argument is really a business case for putting the Division 2 team in the Greater Vancouver area. You could put it in Surrey as well, or anything like that. The whole point is, Edmonton wont work.
Yes, clearly we wont change each others minds when it comes to Edmonton. You guys can worship the Holy Grail of Edmonton Pro Soccer and see what happens. Just remember, when it loses money or fails, the Iron Sheik told you so. And, you should not have made fun of my sources. Good writers never reveal who they are anyways. When I created this thread, i had the source. Ideas and business plans change.
Yes, clearly we wont change each others minds when it comes to Edmonton. You guys can worship the Holy Grail of Edmonton Pro Soccer and see what happens. Just remember, when it loses money or fails, the Iron Sheik told you so. And, you should not have made fun of my sources. Good writers never reveal who they are anyways. When I created this thread, i had the source. Ideas and business plans change.
At best, Coquitlam could do a PDL team, maybe. Just look at the Kitsap Pumas (old Sounders USL franchise) and the Tacoma Tide - they maybe draw a few hundred fans and they are in no way on the mainstream radar around here, because the Sounders cast an overwhelming shadow here (not even just one other team besides the Sounders playing in a Div II would do better). I'm sure it will be the same for the MLS Whitecaps casting a large shadow in BC. So, over-analyzing the size of the population and communities and coming up with hypothetical attendance numbers is pointless. Teams in the PDL just don't have the resources to properly market. Edmonton I think will work. Canadian soccer, as it seems, is on the up and up. Vancouver and Toronto are huge already. Montreal hopefully will be in MLS soon. Hopefully those teams will play against the Edmonton franchise in some tournament or friendlies - the rivalry will be great. I think that Edmonton has been a victim of crappy failing leagues (NASL) and crappy ownerships with no plan (Aviators) - but the interest is certainly there for pro soccer, and yes, you SHOULD be able to look at past tournaments and games such as the "Beckham game" to measure interest. There's no valid reason to discount that. I also have believe that Edmonton, along with Ottawa are important cities for the future of Canadian/North American soccer, and I think that should be supported, not poo-poo'd because of some inherent biases. There is a good Canadian mid-major market in Edmonton - I think it will only not work because of some unstable Div II league (hopefully that will be straightened out in 2011 - I think a strong Div II is very important to North American soccer) or if the Edmonton ownership punts this opportunity, but I don't think they will. I mean, starting with Toronto FC then the Sounders, word is getting around to properly market a soccer team and in Edmonton, there are the proper resources to do that - not in some locale in the shadows of the big city.
Well, I must say we finally have a post with some reasonable discussion on why Edmonton will work. None of the other "Edmonton Disciples" could come up with anything. I suppose we will see who is right. Hope you all are on the board in 3 - 5 years to hear me say I told you so
Tide Yes, Pumas NO. Kitsap's 2009 average was 1,300 per match...including two crowds of over 2,200...against Portland Timbers in USOC and Seattle Wolves in PDL playoffs. http://goalseattle.com/Kitsap/photos/Kitsap%20Pumas%20Fans%202009/ Further, it appears Kitsap will be USL-2 in 2011.
Aye, do you all actually think Edmonton will draw more than 1300 long term? A pence for an old man o'de sea?
Should be an announcement about Edmonton later today, but they are supposedly going to be independent of the Whitecaps. http://www.24thminute.com/2010/02/and-then-there-were-four.html So, looks like that option is off the table.
As I said from the start; the Whitecaps would NOT be putting their own operated team in Edmonton. They opted, instead of my original thought of Coquitlam, to not make their own affiliate club. Instead, they have partnered with someone who is willing to flush their money on a club in Edmonton. This is very smart as the Caps know very well this will fail , and now they have minimized their financial risks. Why take on a risk when you can find a "sucker" to do it for you. I hope to see some apologies for trying to discredit me.
It is interesting that they aren't affiliated with Edmonton. The reason why the Whitecaps wanted a team in USL/NASL after the move up is so they would have a non-MLS route for their academy players because of the restrictive MLS rules. Now, if the Whitecaps feel they don't need that option anymore it could mean that MLS will be greatly loosening their rules where it comes to the ownership of academy players. It will be interesting how this plays out.
Not necessarily true. MLS has previously said that teams could not maintain teams in other leagues, so this could simply mean that the Whitecaps could not get permission from MLS to have a team in D2. It could also simply mean that the Whitecaps could not reach a financial agreement with Edmonton's ownership group that would have made it worth the Whitecaps while.
No. You said the Whitecaps will be putting a team in Coquitlam. Which has yet to be done, nor will it.
They changed their mind since my original post. Now they wont put any team anywhere; just get someone else to foot the bill. Stop trying to discredit me.
i never said that the caps would be financing the edmonton team-- but i did say that the caps would be sending young promising players to the new edmonton franchise, and perhaps help them with marketing-- now it looks like the caps might be helping the edmonton franchise to set up a soccer academy so in that regards, i will be right what does your 'magical crystal ball' sources say about this??
well....... my significant inside sources say that, after intensive research of the edmonton market, the new owners are expecting BIG turnstile returns and the team will be a HUGE success i expect an apology in 3-5 years when i am proven right
Another way of saying this, instead of "found investors to flush money" is to say, found people willing to invest in professional soccer in Edmonton, along with a coaching staff committed to the improvement of the game on this continent. But yes you were correct in saying that the Whitecaps weren't going to spend their own money, I am willing to concede this, since you (TheIronShiek) have all but admitted that your source on Coquitlam was wrong, if not extremely premature in their "leaked" information.
You are being ridiculous. Edmonton will NOT have huge turnstile returns OVER THE LONG TERM.. .they may do well for the first few games as a novelty.. It baffles me how you guys can take a 40 year history of failure and somehow ignore that and think it will work.