Yes, whatever point you are making is surely lost on me. I'm complaining that you have invented grievances in the service of your larger criticism, a criticism you have made many times on this thread.
It was a valid point ... but honestly, I expect the "TOP FLIGHT' to be called out when they do this crap too ... get over yourself ... when your league needs to be critisized for saying stupid crap then let it happen and don't get so damn defensive.
Thanks for saying I had a good point and then attacking me anyway. You're very evolved. Typical NASL commentary on the NASL thread.
The it should be merged with http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads/nasl-gone-wild-was-news.2009282/#post-30866205
My bad ... you point is valid, but then in the delivery of said valid point, you started crying a river ... that part was what I didn't care for ... sorry for not being evolved enough to make that clear.
NASL has got a lot of building and stabilizing of it's league to do before it can even think of relegation/promotion and MLS does too. I am at least glad to see that NASL has stopped talking about competing with MLS to become the primary first division in American soccer. I think that becoming a really good second division is plenty hard enough. I don't understand why, whenever people talk about promotion/relegation, they always default to a European model, as they do in this article. There are so many Latin American models that would be much better for us - particularly something like Mexico's where you only promote/relegate one team per year and there is a playoff to see who goes up/down. NASL has already divided into an opening and closing season. I think our climate demands it if we are going to attempt to extend the calendar of the league. I think that we have milked the continuous season model for as long of a season as we are going to get out of it. I was also pleased to see the NCAA coaches looking to adopt the fall/spring season model. I honestly believe that the continuous season model doesn't work for us. Our winters are too cold and our summers are too hot. I don't see promotion/relegation happening for at least another 15 years but I have been encouraged to see so many rich American owners investing in European leagues where they are at risk of being relegated - particularly at Fulham and Aston Villa. I think that the thought that American owners would never go for it is a myth, as long as you had two really solid, well developed, full leagues - something that won't happen for at least another 15 years. Regardless, I think we have much more to learn about running our leagues from Latin America than from Europe. One of the primary problems with these conversations is that they always seem to start with the assumption that any changes we make should be modeled after European leagues even though our climate and geography are very different. Our culture is evolving though, and I believe that a lot of people that are having a hard time seeing the benefits of promotion/relegation will change their perspective as both leagues expand and solidify. Promotion/relegation right now or even in the near future just doesn't make sense. I do see it as a good goal for the NASL for the long term. A lot can change over time.
It breeds competition, competition motivates to improve skill level, desire and intensity and not to be complacent, so yes Pro/Rel is good for teams and individuals. Will it happen, whole nother thread probably on this site.
Oh, and they're not trying to put the screws to the NASL. They're trying to clean up the freaking landscape and hold people's feet to the fire so we don't have to go through all the bullshit we went through from 1997-2009. The TOA folks thought they could do it better. The fanboys in those markets said they had never had that type of connection before. The NASL has stabilized and is a good foundation for continued DII success going forward. It would be counterproductive and stupid for USSF to try to throw that out now. Jesus, why does EVERYTHING have to be a conspiracy? Why does EVERYONE have to be seen as having a nefarious ulterior motive? Sometimes a cigar is just a ********ing cigar. Stop with the persecution complex that comes from the league your favorite team plays in not getting its goddamned way all the time.
Kenn, you've been around long enough to understand that the vast majority of decisions are done based on the financials. You also know that many of the mistakes are just that, mistakes - that the choices made were made on consideration. But you also know that facts will never get in the way a vocal subset of fans thinking that all those decisions are made on emotion, vendetta, and conspiracy. That MLS has always been allies with USL and that MLS and NASL have always been enemies and two plus two equals five. [/Orwell]
I want it to stop and will not refrain from mocking the ignoscenti who insist that forces are aligning against them every day.
The battle between MLS shareholder value and investment vs lower league competitive motivation to improve. Difficult to solve. But here's an idea: Is there any way possible to have the winner of NASL get promoted to play in MLS and can only be relegated if they finish in last place? This way only one team gets revenue of MLS schedule with the rest of NASL competing to win the league in the hope of that team finishing in last. No MLS team ever gets relegated but the NASL designated team who is not invested in MLS can. Scheduling would be an issue and I'm sure all of you can poke holes in it. But its a thought to benefit both sides of the equation.
But....why would you do it at all, then? So a team...that probably can't afford to go up...goes up...and the others in the NASL, perhaps one or two who COULD afford to go up, can play but have to keep an eye on that team "up there" and hope they finish last, else they...get nothing. Coming up with convoluted mechanisms whose only apparent reason for existence is to make prawns feel better because they can maybe see a team get promoted is a waste of time. Can second division teams move up to MLS? Yes. Can third division teams move up to MLS? Yes. So what's the problem, again? That we need to solve with some odd Frankenstein system that serves no purpose except to make insecure people feel like they have one less laughing point for their Europoser friends? Really?
Does MLS teams want promotion/relegation? nope. Does Garber want Pro/rel? nope. Will Gulati and USsoccer force the issue? nope. Will any of this change any time soon? nope. So for the 100th thread/article in the last two+ years all we're doing is... When most of the D2 teams get into nice 15K soccer specific stadiums with loads of luxury suites maybe we can revisit this argument.
I think you're missing the developing competition throughout all clubs in the US angle and think that all promotion relegation can happen in only one form and its only to copy how Europe does it. What it does is establish a small opportunity to ALL the teams to compete, invest, develop players, infrastructure to be able to reap the benefits of competing vs MLS without investing $100M. The 'winner would sell out every game, sell a lot more jerseys, sell more advertising for the year. It offers a carrot and incentive to build a strong second division from top to bottom and not just by having a super rich owner.
It's really only one, maybe two guys at this point....this is more about amusment, and laughing at those people, more than anything else. Any semi reality, fiscally viable, makes sense plan that most can go for is fne by me. Unfortunately, I pay attention to the situation and facts involved, so I don't have the vision a coupl eofnet heads have. I have just successfully run, set up and/or managed entities worth 100's of millions of dollars over my career. I come here to learn. USopenCup is my idol.
Define what evolved means and give an example. That would impress me. If you can I will be won over. It's inetersting how your own supposed NASL brethren have basically abandoned you over the months. They are evolved.....they recognize nonsense, even if they may be in favor of something they realize that hitching their wagons to you is a lost cause, Evolved.
I agree, but for some reason these guys think giving $100million to the NE Revolution for doing, uh nothing, instead of spending it to develop your own team is a bad idea. btw - I am not picking on the Revs, this a question there own fans are asking - "What are the Revs doing?" [but say it with a cool New England accent]
What you and others fail to understand is putting an NASL club in MLS via any sort of promotion OTHER than then having the mega money that MLS owners have will bankrupt a club. How will they sell out every game if they lose nearly every game and finish last? They might pick up a few sponsors on the way up and sell a few more bits of merchandise, but not nearly enough. Look at promotion and relegation throughout much of the world. Clubs go up and last one or two seasons is the norm. Many clubs get in serious financial problems due to competing with the big boys. A real world example would be like if your favorite mom and pop burger shack who has the best food around all of a sudden decided to spend the same amount on advertising as the local McDonalds franchise. Plus they staffed their restaurant with 80 to 100 workers. Plus they now stayed open 24 hours. And had to renovate to include a double drive thru. And they had to start serving breakfast. Get it? The MLS and NASL business plans are not miles apart, but light years. Does this mean that NASL clubs can't apply to get into MLS? Of course not, but they won't get there on the field.