While I would love for promotion and relegation in the US, the leagues are just too young for that to happen. The MLS was founded less than 20 years ago, and the NASL was founded only five years ago. They are still adding teams every year, and TV contracts are much more in the MLS compared to the lesser divisions. What is important now is to makes sure that all the teams in their respective divisions are successful and growing, so teams like Chivas and even the Cosmos need major changes to make themselves more sustainable to long term success. The NASL has show that it is a worthy understudy to the MLS, with teams like San Antonio and Ottawa building very nice stadiums that are expandable for future growth. The American soccer system needs a solid footing before it will be capable of such a drastic change as promotion/relegation.
Even though most of them never get there? "More connected?" What does that even MEAN? The American system - in all sports - is set up so that you can be terrible one year and still be optimistic you can be good the next year. You know why? Because it's good for business. Imagine that - Americans actually like it when there's a system that if their favorite team sucks this year, they could be good next year, without having to do it in a lesser league. That is because we recognize that we're selling a product here. Promotion and relegation doesn't promote national interest in the sport. There's already national interest in the sport, and whether Dagenham and Redbridge is "connected" (somehow, I guess) to Liverpool or not, that's not going to change. Because the game itself matters over there. Jesus, I can't believe we have to keep explaining this to you people: this is America and shit is different here. The thing that keeps me chuckling is the knowledge that we're going to be sitting here in 10 years and you all still aren't going to have your way and we'll be doing just fine without it. And you'll still be kvetching about Des Moines not having a chance to work their way up to MLS (which they couldn't afford to do anyway). As for those bottom teams "trying like hell," well, I suppose you watch all of those bottom-of-the-table clashes that aren't actually televised here and you do it with some sort of Effort-O-Meter that tells you exactly how hard teams are trying. (And here's where you fall back on the intangible and pretentious "Look, I've watched a lot of soccer and I can just tell when teams are trying and when they aren't" defense.) Look, if you accept the premise (as most proles seem to) that a single table, play-everybody-twice scenario is this magical and true and righteous way to determine a champion, it necessarily follows that every team's place in the final table reflects their quality. Right? So the teams at the bottom aren't very good. Sure, they're better (ostensibly) than most of the teams in leagues below them, but they're not very good in the universe in which they compete. So why is it such compelling theater, somehow, to watch teams that aren't very good try hard to not be the worst teams in the league? Desperate soccer is not attractive soccer. If your club is one of those in that relegation battle, obviously, you have something to pay attention to and to care about, but if you live in Cincinnati, why would you care about Colorado and Houston trying to stay up in MLS? In a nation with a kabillion other sports and leagues to pay attention to? Why watch that? And the idea that professional teams "just give up" (because, in your world, if you're not going to get the whip, you show up late, half-ass your job and go home early) is disrespectful and stupid (not to mention counter-intuitive). Neither the carrot of promotion nor the stick of relegation forces people to play hard. You know what forces players to pay hard? The threat of losing their place in the team, not the threat of their team losing its place in the league. So I guess - again - the converse must be true, that teams in the NASL and USL Pro don't play hard at the top because there's no incentive for them to do so. There's no promotion, so they must be just having a kickabout. If you believe that bad MLS teams are really looking to be "handsomely rewarded" (what an idiotic point of view) by getting to draft whatever interchangeable American college player is at or near the top of the draft list, you're not paying attention. At all. All the things that proles insist will happen with the institution of pro/rel aren't actually going to happen, they just want you to believe they'll happen. These ethereal, you'll-just-have-to-trust-me, supernatural benefits aren't going to happen. We already have a method for teams to move up in levels in this country - it's been demonstrated on multiple occasions. We already have a method for teams to move down to levels that are more appropriate for their goals and finances and abilities. And it's not based on one season's worth of results, it's based on hard, pragmatic, actual reality. Financial reality. This utopian bullshit proles would like to have us believe is just around the corner if we'd only see the light and put a European system in place in an American marketplace is just laughable.
I would be happy to respond via personal messaging. As was correctly pointed out earlier, this conversation has become way, way too personal and it isn't even about the Calvary. Honestly, I am not sure why you are talking about "utopian bullshit" with me. I see relegation/promotion, if done similar to the way that Mexico do it, as a great business opportunity. I am fine if you don't, but your argument is full of assumptions that have nothing to do with anything that I have said or believe. It is as if you are arguing with someone else, but responding to me. If you want to talk about it further, let's do it through PM where we are not hijacking the thread.
Some countries drive on the other side of the road as well. Japanese people for instance drive on the left and have the steering wheel on the right hand side of the car. Just because Japan builds great cars and they drive on the left side of the road, doesn't mean the USA should suddenly turn all the stop signs around and start driving on the other side of the street. Football/Futbol/Fussball/Soccer isn't a mathematical equation, that works over and over. It is a game and a business that has different conditions depending on where its played. Just because pro/rel works in Europe, doesn't mean it will automatically work here. For starters, I'm thinking it may be illegal to suddenly foister it on leagues with franchise law. I figure we will play a winter season before we see pro/rel. Games in Edmonton, Ottawa and Minnesota would be an adventure.
Most people aren't very familiar with this thread! It's not supposed to be the " Pro / rel" Or the " I can't believe it will ever work so I'm gonna pop a coronary thread " Let's stick to the subject.
What is the subject? The first post in this thread just talks about how he thinks New York should have a dozen teams. A few posts after that someone else agrees, and adds "if there was pro/rel." This discussion isn't going to lead to anything without devolving into yet another pro/rel debate. Because for the most vocal pro/rel advocates here, this idea of billionaires investing in the NASL is linked to the idea of pro/rel. How many times have we heard that? "If only there was pro/rel here, more owners would invest in more teams in more cities, because obviously pro/rel makes their investment so much more secure than the currest system." How many times have we heard this argument about a hidden group of disgruntled billionaires who would love to put a team in Kalamazoo if only there was pro/rel? It's gonna come up inevitably.
Agree, just because the rest of the world* uses the metric system does not mean we have to abandon the king’s foot measurements, we love that English king. *Probably not all, but the great part of the world. I got his welcome.
Just like that hidden and kept down world class player roaming our inner cities. They are everywhere.
Thought it would be about the only NASL Billionaire owner Bill Maguire of Minn U. This thread and title make no sense, its done like dinner!
Maybe we should turn it into a defacto 'nonsense' thread. Just see how many obscure and random thoughts we can post, somewhat NASL related before the mods slam the door shut.
NASL is out of control, actually marketing their brand. How offensive! And in their own website no less!! When did this heresy begin!!! EXTRA EXTRA No one but the top flight is allowed to make obnoxious proclamations EXTRA EXTRA No one but the top flight is allowed to talk about their successes EXTRA EXTRA No one but the top flight is allowed to market themselves EXTRA EXTRA Inside sources say lower division attendance is not allowed to be inflated, sources decline to comment on allegations of historical fudging attendance numbers of the top flight. EXTRA EXTRA This double standard is so annoying - see here now, rrah rrah soccer didn't exist on planet America before 1996 EXTRA EXTRA Trasnfers! Today's list of over paid and over the hill international players signed by the top flight soccer league is .... EDITORIAL In this brief editorial the hypocrisy of US Open Cup criticism is highlighted. On the one hand there is constant complaining that it the US Open Cup is not taken seriously, on the other hand you attack anyone that cites its clubs success in the competition. Effectively condemning both the marketing of the clubs/lower divisions and of the US Open Cup. Confusion abounds across the soccer land. Darn NASL, don't they know their place?
Dude just go back to your hole. This isn't the place for delusional fanboys to praise Peterson on every little stupid thing he says. Also, don't bother responding. You'll just be ignored, lol. Now back to the news.
And the NASL forum or website is not for all the hacks to take everything Peterson takes to task as well. The guys job is to run and promote the league and that is what he is doing. If you don't like it then don't read the articles. Every league spins stories so unless your are going to fact check every story of every league then just keep it to your self or don't take offense when someone calls you out on it. the ignored threat.. really?? you went with I am going to ignore you?
I actually wrote that much earlier, but held off posting it because b/c I wanted to see how many experts would chime in. A lot of experts on hypocrisy here. The US Open Cup stuff is the best. What do these "critics" expect? Just to publicize losses? Probably prefer just to ignore it completely since it is the only thing that differentiates soccer from the other big four sports - competition between teams from all divisions. Meaningful competition, not just scrimmages. I love it. Red Bulls beat Arsenal, huge news. Cosmos beat Red Bulls, nothing but excuses. Carolina and AFSC, oh they're horrible thugs - I'll tell you what, I was proud of them both for showing up and trying to win (FC Edmonton too) because they showed more heart than all those top flight teams that line up to be executed by Mexican teams annually. It is disgusting, and its goal is clearly not to elevate soccer.
That was not the point. It is ok to criticize, but when you get called out for it, you should not have to start trolling those that have the other views. If you want to criticize the NASL for spin, then you should also criticize any other league right? Unless your trolling? That said I should not of took the stinky bait.
I have less of a problem with a league spinning than I do with people who fancy themselves to be reporters. This sport - which until very recently suffered from a lack of mainstream sports media coverage, and still lags a bit in that regard - spawned an entire subculture of people who thought journalism looked easy from the couch and became basically fans with keyboards. No training, no ethics, no bona fides at all.
I get as tired as anyone about the same jokes being made each week about the Cosmos kind of sucking in attendance, but this is delusional. Who said the Red Bulls' win over Arsenal was a big deal? And preserving the history of DII performance in Open Cups past is an insult somehow? This honestly couldn't ring more hollow to me.
You seem very sincere.... And then this................... Because, you are fixated on... And as a result, you missed the point.