Napoli vs The Arsenal: December 11, 2013.

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by R9Kevinr9, Dec 8, 2013.

  1. R9Kevinr9

    R9Kevinr9 Member+

    Feb 2, 2007
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    El Salvador
    [​IMG]

    Champions League Group Stage
    Wed, Dec 11, 1:45 PM on FS1
    San Paolo

    After a disappointing result at home to Everton it's time to shift our focus to Napoli. There were many positives to take from the game against Everton who is in outstanding form. I'm sure that Wenger and the boys will be able to flip the page and be 100% focused on Wednesday. Let's support the Arsenal and qualify top of the group because being top of the league isn't good enough! COYG/KILL!
     
  2. charlie15

    charlie15 Member+

    Mar 9, 2000
    Bethesda, Md
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Arsene should rotate a bit vs Napoli. Monreal for Gibbs. Flamini for Jack or Ramsey and Rosicky for Cazorla.
     
  3. goonermaui

    goonermaui Arsenal No Ka 'Oi

    May 12, 2006
    Lahaina Maui
    The one, and only , Antifan will be over here on Maui for this one.

    West Maui Massive, are gonna be in da house.!!!!!!!!!:cool:



    .


    .


    .


    Unless he sleeps in a bit....:D;)
     
  4. total_football

    total_football Member+

    Apr 2, 2002
    Chicago
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Must win the group that is all
     
  5. total_football

    total_football Member+

    Apr 2, 2002
    Chicago
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Theo and Gnabry please
     
  6. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Rest Ozil and Ramsey for this one. Giroud as well - bring them on at half time if we need to change things up.
     
  7. GunneRy

    GunneRy Member+

    Aug 22, 2006
    Chicago
    This.

    11 men behind the ball at all times, try to hit them on the counter.

    We'll lose it 2-1, but I'll take it.
     
  8. blueguitar322

    blueguitar322 Member

    Jun 30, 2006
    Charlotte, NC
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I disagree about Gnabry. Even if you want to rest Ozil and Ramsey (which Wenger won't do, both will start imho), you play Santi-Wilshere-Theo in front of Arteta-Flamini. Gnabry is a high risk/high reward choice, the exact opposite of what we want (low risk).

    Remember, we have two games - Napoli and City - and then an 8-day break. If Ozil and Ramsey have the stamina to get through 180 minutes more, they'll play the full 180 minutes.
     
  9. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Starting Gnabry at Napoli of all places is a mistake. Wenger has never given promising young players starts in such circumstances unless there was no other choice: the only other cases I can think of were Wilshere at Chelsea and Coquelin/Frimpong/Jenkinson at Old Trafford. We lost both games.
     
  10. lamb

    lamb Member+

    Sep 3, 2004
    Larne, N.Ireland
    wenger is going to run mertesacker into the ground if he isn't careful. signing a rotation cb in january seems a must to me.
    napoli have gone off the boil a little bit recently. it might offer us a chance to justify rotating a little. they have a few injuries themselves, and losing hamsik in particular is a nightmare for them. most of their good play went through him and they struggle without him.

    ............................szczesny............................
    jenkinson, koscielny, vermaelen, monreal
    .................flamini.........wilshere...................
    ...gnabry..............rosicky..............cazorla...
    ..............................walcott.............................

    alongside a bench that's as strong as possible, should it be needed.
    fabianski, mertesacker, gibbs, arteta, ramsey, ozil, giroud.
     
  11. mwojt21

    mwojt21 Member

    May 22, 2007
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    While I don't think we'll see as much rotation as you suggest, your assessment of Napoli's recent play is accurate. After a strong start, they've come back to earth.

    In their last six matches (overall), they had to come from behind to beat Marseille 3-2, lost to Parma 0-1, and allowed Udinese to come back and draw 3-3 (all at home), while they lost pretty soundly to Dortmund & Juve (both away).
     
  12. blueguitar322

    blueguitar322 Member

    Jun 30, 2006
    Charlotte, NC
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    So...in a play-in game to reach the final 16 of the Champions League, with a win or tie guaranteeing that your next game won't be against Bayern/Barca/Real/PSG, against a tough opponent (#14 ELO in the world according to Football Database) in their house, with them in desperation mode playing win-or-go-home for more CL play, you recommend Wenger play only 1 first-choice defensive starter, 2 first-choice midfield starters (resting Ozil, Ramsey, Arteta), and a right winger as striker? And Gnabry, who has barely featured at all this year, is one of the starters?

    I'm glad Wenger won't even come close to doing that.

    Remember when half this forum said that he should rest EVERYONE against Hull last Wednesday, but instead Wenger came out with a full-strength squad minus Bendtner and Nacho (and Jenkinson due to injury)? Yeah. He'll do the same here, resting two regular starters at most. I think there's a better than even chance that it's full-strength, no rotation (minus the two or three midfield spots he's been rotating the entire year).
     
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  13. lamb

    lamb Member+

    Sep 3, 2004
    Larne, N.Ireland
    #13 lamb, Dec 9, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2013
    flamini and arteta have played exactly the same amount of games. which is the starter? for this match i picked flamini for 2 reasons: he is better defensively and he is a better organiser. this match is about reducing scoring opportunities above all else. sounds crazy to say that and rest mertesacker, right? but who do you want your best team ready for...man city or napoli?

    yes, it's a risk with so many changes. there are times during every season when risks have to be taken.
    why take it? well, simply because i think we will need to be at our best to beat man city, and beating man city could be extremely important to winning the league title this season, both in terms of taking points from serious rivals and from a psychological point of view. imo mertesacker and ramsey could both do with a rest (probably koscielny too, but we have limited choices at cb)
    note that napoli have to beat us by 3 goals, hence if we start losing, or it becomes obvious we are getting into trouble, we use the very strong bench.
    you say walcott is a right winger, but he isn't really. he's as much a striker as he is a winger, possibly moreso. i'd rather walcott than bendtner. you say napoli will be desperate and go for it....surely then it's the ideal time to go with walcott, to hit them on the counter.
    you don't think flamini/wilshere/rosicky/carzola helping a young but talented gnabry out is strong enough? if it isn't then maybe we have more problems that i was aware of. seems pretty strong to me.
    monreal should do fine at lb in place of gibbs. i can't see too many panicking about that change.
    we have to play jenkinson.
    resting mertesacker is a risk, but might pay off, and he is there to be used if vermaelen/koscielny is failing badly.
    giroud needs a rest. it's that simple. while this game is very important, it isn't a "must win", rather a "don't lose badly".
    playing gnabry is a risk, of course, but he hasn't let himself down much so far, and including him allows ozil/ramsey to be 100% for man city.


    btw. for the record, i wasn't one of those calling for mass changes for hull.
    btw2. i don't think wenger will make so many changes either, though i suggest he should consider most of them.
     
  14. TxTechGooner

    TxTechGooner we're having fun here, no?

    Feb 24, 2003
    learn from years of mistakes... win the group. cup final.
     
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  15. mwojt21

    mwojt21 Member

    May 22, 2007
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not so sure its those normal rotations that people are squawking at. I think most would agree that Flamini, JFW, Rosicky, etc. slot pretty seamlessly into the MF/AM. Its the major changes that include a downgrade in quality (Jenks, TV, Gnabry, TGSTEL) or suggestions of playing people out of their regular positions (Walcott at CF) that are the issue.

    And lets be honest, when have we ever known Wenger to make more than a couple changes to his lineup? Hull was a huge surprise.

    So far, it appears Jenks will start, so I can't see too many more changes at the back (maybe an early sub depending on how the match progresses?). I could see Jack or Flamini coming back into the lineup (at the expense of Caz/Rosicky and Arteta) and this may be a great time to get Theo back out there. His speed would be nice to have on the counter away from home.
     
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  16. TxTechGooner

    TxTechGooner we're having fun here, no?

    Feb 24, 2003
    anyone else concerned that cazorla hasn't been a matchwinner?
     
  17. lamb

    lamb Member+

    Sep 3, 2004
    Larne, N.Ireland
    very true, except in previous years we arguably weren't genuine league title challengers at the same time.
    a win guarantees us the group win
    a draw guarantees us the group win.
    a dortmund win and a loss for us of 2 or less at napoli guarantees us 2nd place.
    a dortmund win and a loss for us of 3 or more puts us out. ***afaics this is the only combination that eliminates us***
    a dortmund loss or draw and a loss of 2 or less at napoli guarantees us the group win.
    a dortmund loss or draw and a loss of 3 or more at napoli guarantees us 2nd place.

    (i think this is right...3 combinations from 6 for the group win)
     
  18. blueguitar322

    blueguitar322 Member

    Jun 30, 2006
    Charlotte, NC
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    @lamb, I'll concede your point re: Flamini vs Arteta and starters. I gave Arteta the nod because of his importance to the club last year, but it's probably not a huge difference.

    Just as a passing comment, I don't necessarily think that Flamini is better defensively. Arteta has 3.5 tackles and 1.8 interceptions per game compared to 1.4 tackles and 1.4 interceptions per game for Flamini. Also, Flamini seems simultaneously more organized (vocally at least) yet reckless. Against both Liverpool and Everton, he constantly charged up the pitch, leaving Arteta as the sole defensive midfielder. Even within the free-flowing tactical construct at Arsenal, he strikes me as more offensive-minded than Arteta.

    Playing Mertesacker, Ramsey and Giroud won't substantively impact their availability, form, or arguably even fitness for the City game.
    • CBs don't run much compared to other positions. Wenger said as much himself, saying that with CBs it's more mental fitness than physical fitness. I have faith in BFG's mental fitness.
    • You say "Giroud needs a rest, it's that simple." Giroud just got a rest against Hull. He doesn't need two games off within a week.
    • As for Ramsey? Last year, Cazorla started 37/38 games (subbed in the 38th) and 7/8 CL games and it didn't affect his performance one bit. Ramsey is just as fit as Cazorla, why couldn't he do that this year? Even if he rests 4-5 games during the year, away at Napoli when a CL playoff berth is on the line isn't the best time to do it, especially given that there's two games and then an 8-day break. (Reminder: Ramsey just recently had ~2 weeks off during the international break. Similar to what Cazorla had last year.)
    • FYI the idea of resting Ozil this game doesn't bother me, he doesn't have Ramsey's stamina and deserves a break, even if I don't think he will get one.
    Here's the thing: there are good risks to take, and poor risks to take. Swapping out the majority of the lineup is a poor risk to take when a CL playoff berth is on the line. Do I think that your midfield is good enough to not lose by 3? Yes. But the goal is a draw or better, otherwise we play Bayern/Barca/Real/PSG. That's the real risk IMHO.

    But even if that wasn't the case, managers (correctly) never play to tie, it's a mindset that doesn't work. For Wenger to make that many changes would communicate that the game isn't important, which is why the only time you DO see him making that many changes are for games that actually aren't important (i.e. Carling Cup). Your lineup isn't terrible by any stretch, but it's a far cry worse than first team.

    I also think that everyone is over-stating the need for rotation. The primary area to rotate is midfield, and Wenger has been doing that for the whole season, minus Ramsey and Ozil. Those two are a special case, as they are by far the two most important cogs for our offensive game plan. Wenger talked about rotation after the Marseille game, and since then Giroud has rested one game, while Ozil, Ramsey, BFG and Kos have started every single one. For better or worse, that's Wenger's definition of rotation. He'd much rather blame TV execs than have one of his key players sit.
     
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  19. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    See my post in the other thread. Something looks very wrong there. It's either fitness, attitude, tactics, or something.
     
  20. GunneRy

    GunneRy Member+

    Aug 22, 2006
    Chicago
    Indeed. He honestly is playing as bad as Ramsey did when Ramsey was getting booed.
     
  21. TxTechGooner

    TxTechGooner we're having fun here, no?

    Feb 24, 2003
    man, for me (and i can't believe i said this on twitter)... Flamini>> Arteta

    arteta gambles alot (and loses), he isn't as athletic (or have the engine), and is great for a team with a destroyer.
    he isn't one.

    love the passion and energy flamini has.
    yet another master stroke by the boss.

    -------ozil---------
    ramsey----flamini
     
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  22. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    They do something different. The issue with Arteta is that he can't deal with being pressed. I don't know that I'd say Flamini is better, since I think Arteta reads the game better and doesn't have to run as much. But while Flamini doesn't give away possession as much, he's also not on the ball as much and Arteta offers a much better outlet in possession. Different players for different types of games though Flamini certainly fills a need.

    Which is to say that I'm not sure you can qualitatively say that one is better than the other, since they offer very different things. I do agree that it was a great signing.
     
  23. Romfordray

    Romfordray Member+

    Oct 24, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is this a splinter group of the brick lane massives? Respect.
     
  24. lamb

    lamb Member+

    Sep 3, 2004
    Larne, N.Ireland
    in da curry house? ....making me hungry now
     
  25. FORZA NAPOLI <3

    FORZA NAPOLI <3 BigSoccer Yellow Card

    May 27, 2013
    Land down under!
    Club:
    SSC Napoli

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