Hello With COVID, almost all schools are streaming games nowadays. The benefit of this is that we can always relive those games and learn from them. As such, I have had an interesting BV game today with a challenge that I would like to present to you to be the jury on this. I am of course doing it for the educational purposes - I would like to know if my thinking here is ok and what else should I be looking at, as I just want to become a better official and strive for that with every game I do. Here's the link below, the challenge in question happens at 28:07, link should start there. At first glance looks bad. As you can see I am right there, looking right at it. I have a foul. It's late, it's a foul. I chose not to give a card for this. My reasoning was that I see white player's eyes on the ball the whole time, I see red moving in more abruptly as white is challenging for it and in the air they collide after red has cleared it. I do not see shoulder or elbow raised. I see his hand with the elbo move to brace himself for impact. On a still, the moment of impact is just a split second after the ball had been played, so it's not super late, I think he's very much going for the ball and I think the size difference makes the kid get really hurt. Obviously fans are yelling (my favorite is at 28:45 - "you're a coward, SIR!" ) but I would like your opinion - should have I gone yellow here? Was not going with a card and just a talking to fine? Is my reasoning on no yellow on the field good or should I be looking at other things and thinking something else?
There’s a 0% the player in white thinks he is winning the ball right there. It’s definitely a yellow. He’s late, he comes in hard, it looks like he hits him pretty high. I think that ticks all of the boxes for reckless. That’s not the kind of jump someone makes to win the ball.
At the high school level this either a yellow or an AC from kingdom come depending on the temperature of the match thus far. I honestly think a yellow gets you better mileage here since it's what everyone seemed to expect. At a higher level, an AC probably works fine.
For me that’s Yellow and an AC. #4 lined him up and knew what he was doing. That’s a pointy ball shoulder tackle IMHO. ETA: we all get the luxury or watching it more than once. An advantage you did not have.
Thank you for posting. For me this is orange. As #mathguy says, it’s a lined up hit, no legitimate effort to play the ball, and as pointed out, some shoulder/elbow into red. the match temp seems low so I am at yellow and epic ac.
It's always difficult to share your own moments - thanks for doing so. I totally get where you're coming from - his eyes are facing the ball the whole time. You're wanting to call it just accidental. Another way to think about it - he's moving sideways, he's clearly late, he has to know someone else could be going for the ball. All of that sounds like... reckless. You don't have to be deliberate to be reckless. Easy yellow. Whether you make a show of it is up to you and the game.
I agree with the above posters. If you have some time it's fun clicking through the game, there's about 900 throw-ins it's hilarious.
Thanks for the explanations - it definitely helps kind of seeing where I should be looking at and what am I ignoring in this case. And about 300 of them never go in but have to go to the other team because it's NFHS
I agree with a yellow here--I'd need an awfully calm game at that age to think about at AC instead. But as I see where you come in from the video, your angle was different from the camera. (My guess is it looked less calculated from the angle you had in the game.) (I had the same thought on first watch and re-watching . . . I was waiting for the three other angles and slo-mo. )
That's actually a good point - it did not look that calculated from my angle and to be honest from the angle I was at it wasn't even clear that it was late - it looked more like a collission of both players than a reckless challenge. I only knew the red player got it first because of where the ball went, but my thinking on the field was that they both had a good shot at the ball and red got there first. Definitely a very different view from the angle we have here. Also on slow mo by YouTube I see the way the white's arm moves which I saw none of in real time. I'm guessing in a 3-men system I would see it very differently.
Agree with all the above. No way white is getting that. He goes in for the challenge just to challenge. Red is virtually defenseless to brace for that impact coming in like that. I’ve got a yellow.
Thanks and kudos for posting this for input and review. I haven't yet watched your clip (dang conference calls) but it's on my list for when my colleagues slow down for the day. Since you mention a 3-man system, was your game a dual? That would be a big factor in (not) seeing anything and in getting ready to (not) see anything.
No. In NFHS, if the ball does not enter the field on a TI, the other team gets the TI. In USSF, the TI is just retaken.
In a dual system, you can always ask your partner if there should be a card given especially in this scenario with play stopped.
Does red shoulder that ball? Why did he not head it? It makes no difference in the call, but him turning to shoulder that instead of head it is part of the problem. First glance I say easy yellow for reckless. I am amazed that no players on the field really seem upset about it. The only other piece of advice I can give from this clip is when a player gets hurt, show a little more urgency in getting there. I know it is difficult here since you are really close, but a few hard steps or starting to sprint shows some compassion and if there was any dustup between red and white after that foul you could end it before it began. Not really the best clip for this example. You did a good job of checking the player first though.
Here’s my thought process. I am not a touchline referee in a dual. And the clip that I watched shows a game that is not real fast. I would be inside, at least 10-15 yards off the touchline which gives me a more realistic CR-type look at the action. And, your body language shows that is a run of the mill foul in movement and in whistle tone and duration. Even if you don’t think at the time it’s a yellow, you need to be moving quickly to the spot of the foul and hitting that whistle pretty hard. That sends the teams a message that you saw a hard foul, and will deal with it. It’s a yellow to me for two reasons. Late and high. He was never going to win the ball, and “he only had eyes for the ball” is not an excuse to be late and high. BTW, the proceeding throw in was taken at least 10 yards closer to goal then where it went out.
I can completely understand why with one look you didn’t give yellow. There was something about this play that looked a little weird, wasn’t your “typical” reckless challenge. In live time I’m not sure if I would’ve gone yellow immediately. I’ll give you a piece of practical advice. You probably realized pretty soon after you saw the guy on the ground this challenge was worse than meets the eye. Right? It doesn’t always work, but in this case I think upon seeing the extent of the damage you could’ve still given the offender yellow a bit late, maybe when you stopped the clock for the injury. The optics aren’t great, but it gets you to the right decision. EDIT: Want to clarify we should typically NOT base our potential misconduct decisions on the reaction / result of the offended player, but in this case I think you can use genuine context clues to “back into” the right decision.
So just for fun I decided to click around the other games on that YouTube channel. And basically whenever there's an obvious yellow it's not given by every other referee besides you. That lack of giving obvious yellow cards tracks with my experience of high school soccer
I agree with the Lamplighter on that. I have averaged around 3+ yellows per game so far this season with two 7 yellow games. (Partner and I combined). When I mention this to other refs, they are aghast.
I'm gonna go against the grain--I watched the clip without reading any of the comments or your description, and my initial read on the play was careless foul, no card. I don't think a yellow would be wrong, especially if the game was heating up, and I think a strong whistle and a talking-to would be prudent, but I just don't see a ton of force here, and the elbows are down. If the player doesn't go down injured there, I think you'd have a lot more people here being okay with no yellow. And while I feel a little weird commenting on the toughness of a high-schooler--I'll just say I'm surprised he was hurt that badly by that challenge.
“Epic AC”? “AC from kingdom come”?? Just give the card. It will help your game WAY more than giving a HS kid a lecture. I dunno why HS refs have this aversion to giving cards in the name of “management”. All I see is cowardice.