First things firts Ball control: this have to be at least 25 per cent of your training for your whole team, Once this phase is accomplish and you are confortable with your team ball control you have to divide and find out who will fit every position on the field, from GOALIE TO CENTRAL STRIKER, your strikers need to be able to sprint at high speed withour loosing control of the soccer ball, YOUR MIDFIELDERS SHOULD BE ABLE TO EXECUTE LONG PRECISE PASSES AND COORDINATE ATTACK, on your last line, DEFENSE have to be able to coordinate speed and one more time SOCCER BALL CONTROL
We did that all the time too (4v4) and it works wonders for both ball control, vision and decision making. Whenever I help coach, this is a staple of practice. Teams get a point for every 5-8 consecutive passes (Vary according to skill)
Re: First things firts no offense dude, but if you want to emphasize something, please put it in bold type... it isn't annoying like caps are bold: [_b] word [_/b] get rid of the underscore to make it work... if you still don't understand, click the quote button and see how they do it in the quote -jim
08/11/02 No practice today. It was cancelled. Rematch tomorrow against the school we played Thursday; I wont make it b/c I have a ILT orientaion from 8-4 and match is at 3 pm and about 40 miles away.
Coryattheplex, that's a nice description of the 3-5-2. After half the season, we eventually used the 3 5 2 with a U-12 rec team last season and we lost only one match, while beating several more talented teams and ultimately won our bracket with the same personnel that had finished low middle the previous season. One thing that helps young/inexperienced kids work with this formation is that it provides a lot of teachable moments: at the beginning we had a hard time getting the wings to stay wide, precisely because they were hungry and had been played centrally up to now. Once they, got the ball in the right place, however, they had a lot of room to make things happen and did so. It made for such a dramatic difference from the route 1 stuff that was the kids' natural tendency that they figured it out almost on their own. Re: sweeper vs. flatback: Take this with a grain of salt, because I've only coached younger kids, but it seems to me that the flat four makes greater demands on the sophistication (or lack thereof), of players. You really need a leader telling them when to step up, they need to decide on the fly when to play cover and when to mark, etc. The sweeper system has a player dedicated to this, and it's a lot simpler, even if the guy isn't verbal back there, although that certainly helps.
I have not read all the posts. but formations don't win games. Players wins games, also coaches get to much credit for winning games. If your losing a new formation won't help you much. Think of a formation as a starting point and that's it. Those positions can be there, but who takes them up can and should be anybody on the team, and not just one particular player. You don't want any players to be locked in one position on the field. Because for example at times you might not need two true wings. If the ball is on one flank do you need a player over 60 yards away standling alone on the other flank. Does your 3-5-2 look the same when you fall back on defense as it looks like on the attack on the middle third does it look the same in your attacking third? It can look like a 4-4-1-1 on defense in your defensive half of the field. What you should try to have at all times is have a forward, 2 angle and a back pass option. Closer you get to your attacking goal you can lose that forward option or it may come down to just a 2 foot forward option. That is why an inside combination game is needed at high levels of play. or your left with just horizontal square pass or the back pass to score. A long horizontal pass is a cross. You are looking to attack space. if there is space and a flank player can move away from the flank to attack that space do you hold him to his flank position? On wings getting lost. That can easily happen if they are locked into their wing position. Donovan used to get lost on the flank in the Olympics because he did not attack space and he stayed in that position when his space to play the ball became congested. Why, because his team mates would switch the field to play in more open space. So he was left without the ball because they played the ball away from him. He should have moved out of that position when he saw his space being taken away. Always, remember skillful dangerous players attacking space wins games. Not formations and also coaches get to much credit for wins as well. It is all about the player. Coaches can lose games by not creating skillful players and not allowing players to create because it might cause them to lose the ball at times. Richie
To Richie, Those were very insightful words, but I resent the fact that you imply that a coach who works on formation is a glory hound. I give my boys, and the girls I coached this past summer all of the credit, because ulimately it was there hard work and creative play that made system work....I simply chose the system I thought would work best. That's all I have ever done tactically for a team, that and then teach them how best to use it. For you to gather that I want anything more out of this discussion thatn to find an even better way to teach the 3-5-2 is insulting.....have I once referred to MY accomplishments...no they are irrelevant. As for you discussion of wing players getting lost by being locked in to a spot, mine are only tied into that position to the extent they must be able to make a recovery run to the middle to cover def mids who will likely have to shift outside if the ball is lost and countered on the wing they have just left. Other than that, if they see opportunities to find space elsewhere, they are encouraged to exploit it immediately, they are only requird to remember their responsabilities to defend.
I, too, will be coaching my first team after a mediocre playing career (an inner-city high school in Detroit). Fortunately, I have taught the game for several years as a physical education teacher, but I am prepared to expand my base of knowledge to successfully coach at the varsity high school level. My one comment is this (and this goes for any sport, except cross country or track): don't make your kids run slow distance laps. Time can be more efficiently spent by having them run with a ball at their feet. Organize the drills so that fundamentals and fitness (both aerobic and anaerobic) are both accomplished at the same time; its more fun for everyone. Judging by the length of this thread, though, someone may have already made this point, but I still wanted to add it just in case it had not been mentioned. Good luck!
"Those were very insightful words" Thank you. "but I resent the fact that you imply that a coach who works on formation is a glory hound." I read my post again, and I can't find that I said that anywhere. I think I said formation does not win games. Good players win games. what I meant by that if your players can't play well in general changing formations won't matter much. My post "Always, remember skillful dangerous players attacking space wins games. Not formations and also coaches get to much credit for wins as well. It is all about the player. Coaches can lose games by not creating skillful players and not allowing players to create because it might cause them to lose the ball at times." That is exactly what I said and it is true. "For you to gather that I want anything more out of this discussion thatn to find an even better way to teach the 3-5-2 is insulting" I don't think I have read your post just made observations on formations in general. So don't be insulted. "...have I once referred to MY accomplishments...no they are irrelevant." As I said did not read your post, and did not feel the urge to back over the thread to read your post now. So don't worry it was not about you or what you wrote. "As for you discussion of wing players getting lost by being locked in to a spot, mine are only tied into that position to the extent they must be able to make a recovery run to the middle to cover def mids who will likely have to shift outside if the ball is lost and countered on the wing they have just left. Other than that, if they see opportunities to find space elsewhere, they are encouraged to exploit it immediately, they are only requird to remember their responsabilities to defend." A wing should be a 2 way player and a runner that doesn't mean fast, but fast is nice. When your team loses the ball they have to try and get behind the ball as do the rest of the team for that matter. What about when a back does an overlap ball side. What does your far side wing mid do positionally when he sees that happen? Just curious on how you play. Richie
Generally agree. At the practical level, the flat four can be used to make it more difficult for teams to play ball over the top (through balls also) as defenders are in a straight line. And, as such, can push up together, hold line, etc. without sweeper having to call an offside trap or step up. A variation of the sweeper/stopper four player defense for a "less experienced" side is using the two outside backs as man markers. I have seen (and coached) defenders who were able to compensate to a degree for lower ball skills by effectively marking a forward. A good forward will adjust but you'd be surprised that some mediocre forwards allow themselves to be marked out of a game. jgw
This team needs to trim some fat, physically and mentally. We have one or two players that are being rather malcontent and it is spreading to the other players. I am not happy at all.
Looks like it is time for a pep talk. Don't get me wrong. Reading many of your posts, this doesn't appear to be the best situation. But hang in there. Try to focus on the positive and what your reasons are for being a coach. I know that I always want to feel like I've positively impacted every player. But that's not always realistic. Some don't want it, and sometimes you just can't click with everyone. I'm not suggesting that you outwardly want to show favoritism or anything (you should keep working on those hard cases also), but maybe even in a bad situation there is room for a significant contribution to someone's soccer career, or life in general. As I think someone suggested in an earlier post, the assistant often gets to work with the goalie or with the defenders. Especially if you feel like the head coach is otherwise controlling too much (and diminishing your role), it can help to see if you can get a piece carved out for you to handle more on your own. Hang in there.
Re: 08/11/02 Rematch was cancelled last night. Coach felt that there was no way we were prepared for it.
Welcome to the thread, MLS. Feel free to offer tips or suggestions or observations, they are all apprecaited. About the Cooper test, it was throughly slammed earlier in the thread. Those with much more experience than I, shared your opinions. thanks
All rancor aside, lets discuss what we came here to discuss. I absolutely believe that in a mature offense and defense, your wing players had better be faster than average....including your backs. As for one of my three backs making a run forward (remember i'm talkin the 3-5-2), it better not happen! In a traditional 4-4-2, with a flat back system, a left or right back has that freedom because he's always leaving three defenders behind who can shift over and adapt if the ball is lost and the other team counters. In my opinion, the backs in a 3 man system don't have this luxurey because they must retain their shape for the whole game......if i'm wrong it's okay to tell me....thats why i started the discussion of my defensive assignments with the 3-5-2 in the first place.....i'm hungry to learn! Now please do me one favor, don't speak out of conjecture on this. I need someone who has played or coached this system at a higher level than me to tell me what to look for.
Couple of comments/questions... 1)The defense discussion seems to have taken a turn for the more complicated. For who ever said that, in a sweeper system, the sweeper rotates with the marking back who then becomes the sweeper, is spot on. I was taught that way, but then I have always played 4-4-2 sweeper system. But remember, the idea is not to let the ball in the goal, and ultimate that is the goalies responsibality. He is the one who ultimately needs to guide his defenders. In my opinion, of course. 2)3-5-2 v. 4-4-2: Like it was said, the formation depends upon the players. And then, it depends upon the philosophy of the coach (defend, counter attack, attack, direct play, short pass, long ball, etc). I like a 3-5-2 because I think it allows for more individual play and flair rather than mechanized teamwork (no offense to anybody's coaching methods here). But, of course, I'm not a coach... 3)These 6 core players - how do they fit into the scheme of things (position, skill, etc)? 4)Has a team leader been identified yet (different from being the designated captian, but one of those as well- my club team after high school, I was captian, but our leader was a quiet Japanese guy with skill than anyone I've every played with or against)? 5)All the fitness work may be pushing the kids away - not enough time with the ball. I know I always looked forward to playing with the ball because I didn't have much skill that I knew I needed to learn, plus it got me involved with my teammates. If there is one consistancy that seems to be said here, it is gaining fitness with the ball, not without. 6)How often does the goalie show up, and how much specialized training does he get?
Well, with the number of players you have you can't cut them from the team, which is what I'd probably do. So, your only real option is to get them into the fold. I'd take each one of them aside and talk BS to them. Tell them how important they are to team and how much they are contributing talent-wise. Get them to like you. Butter them up good. Here is an example: "You have some of the best off-ball movement I've ever seen in a player at your age." or "You're open field dribbling is easily the best on the team and they all know it." Then tell them how important it is that their attitude needs to be good since so many players look up to them. The whole things is this; they have a bad attitude because they basically don't like you. Your speech will turn that around. They will now like you because you believe in them. They, also, will realize how wise you are for recognizing their talent. They will now follow your lead because you have in faith in them. They will not want to let you down. Give it a shot.
08/13/02 Match tonight at 7 pm. Should have enough kids to play 11 and have a couple of reserves. Hopefully, a better performance from last Thursday but it is non conference so results are secondary.
While I don't necessarily disagree with yuor approach here, from years of hard-earned experience I would suggest that it most likely stems from the parents. If the majority of the players are happy with you, IMO it's unlikely that a couple malcontents are bucking the trend on their own. Kids go with the flow. The usual exception is when the parents are sitting around the dinner table bad-mouthing you. In fact, I'll bet you dinner that if there are two malcontents, their parents are friends and you'll see them chatting amiably while they're waiting to pick them up after practice. This one is tough because the ones you need to get throught to are the parents. Were they close to the previous coach? Is somebodies' father a "soccer expert" who's showing off by putting down the stuff you're doing and the methods you use? Happens all the time. See if you can coopt the parents somehow, particularly the fathers. Mothers as a rule (though not always) really don't care that much what you do as long as you seem to like their kid as a person. Single out one of the fathers for a conversation sometime. See what kind of vibes you get. Engage him in a soccer-related discussion and see if he tries to impress you with how much he knows, or who he knows or whatever. If he's an "expert" he'll spill the beans. He can't help himself. If this is what I think it is, this guy is easy. Listen to his wisdom, nod knowingly, treat his opinions with great respect. Then figure out something for him to do. Is he physically adept enough to warm up your keepers? How about being a "referee liason" (my favorite) who makes sure the referee is contacted before the match, and has "everything he needs" during it. One thing I'm sure of: These kids come by it honestly, ie at home, either from their parents or (less likely) because they bitch about you at home and the parents don't stop them. Good parenting is: "Look, Johnny, I understand you seem to have some differences with your coach. Tough beans, kid. This is life, and welcome. You may not like your teachers, you may not like your professors, you may not like your bosses or your sergeants or even your parents. Nobody cares and bitching doesn't change it or solve anything. You suck it up and make the best of it. Now don't let me hear that crap again." Good luck, and be consoled by the thought that these kids DO come around sometimes. A couple of the best players I ever had were originally malcontents, including one whose parents filed written complaints and appeared before the board to complain about me being their kids' coach. By the end of the season, that kid would have run through a wall for me, and his father would have kicked crap out of you if you said anything bad about me. Just shows it's possible. Good luck.
Re: Re: My first year coaching thread [rant] I HUGELY object to that statement, even in general. I understand that you're experiences may tell you that, I my experiences are such that mothers are at least involved/knowledgable if not more so than the fathers (because the mothers "support" their child/player). As an example, a mother of one of my teammates when I was in high school, single handedly got the coach fired! I understand you spoke from experience, but it is an over generalization. [/rant]
Keep in mind that just as you can implement a 4-4-2 in several ways (sweeper/stopper, flat, with/w-out marking, etc.), there are a variety of ways that you can implement the 3-5-2. For example, when Brazil uses the 3-5-2, R. Carlos and Cafu function as wingbacks. In fact, sometimes you'll see the lineup as 5-3-2. Nevertheless, they both have great latitude to get up the flanks, but they also have defensive responsibilities. Now shift to the US-Mexico game. The U.S. went with what were in effect three central defenders, two defensive midfielders in front of them and three more midfielders in front. On right-side attacks, you saw Sanneh sliding out to tackle man with ball with Reyna tracking back to help. The two defensive midfielders, Mastroeni and O'Brien (?-can't remember now) smothered attacks up the middle. The point is that these are two very different ways of using the 3-5-2. What makes it work is players who understand their responsibilities and then carry them out. This is something that you as the coach decide, communicate and monitor. Finally, I encourage you not to discourage (!) your defenders from venturing forward. You certainly want numbers back, but going back to the Brazil example, Lucio is very effective at getting forward from the central defender spot. Best wishes. jgw
You're kidding, right? A player will not respect a coach who does not tell the truth. Period. That doesn't mean that you have to be brutally honest in your evaluation. You can be honest and be positive without resorting to manipulation. Example: "You've really improved this week. Excellent trap or much better trap or you're getting there." I'm all for getting kids on board, and perhaps a good team talk is appropriate. "I know it's tough, but your hard work is going to pay off." Or let them talk. Kids aren't stupid. They've got to know that it sucks having only six out for practice and then 11 for the games. Find a way to reward those players who have been faithful. But whatever you do, DO NOT tell a kid something just so he will like you. jgw
Re: Re: My first year coaching thread Maybe we all need a little more information. It wasn't so clear to me from the earlier posts that these "malcontents" have an issue with their assistant coach, or with the coach, or with anyone else. My initial reaction to it was simply that they weren't as interested in soccer as we are. There are any number of possible reasons for this, but certainly one is that they're not athletic and/or simply don't enjoy the game but they nonetheless are out there because they need the sports credit. This is JV, right, and it may be that they have no aspiration to move up to varsity, they just want to satisfy an athletic requirement. Does your school have such a requirement? What is the motivation for these kids to play? This can definitely be a frustrating situation, and there isn't too much you can do other than hang in there, and do what you can to show them that the game is more enjoyable than they are giving it credit for. In this regard, I thought the suggestion to try to limit the running and involve more time with the ball was a good one. Try to make it more fun. In the end, however, I think the important thing is come to some understanding of what everyone's expectations are. In this situation, kicking players off the squad isn't an option, so it may be that it's more important to be accepting of the fact that you don't have 11 kids are not going to be Pele (or Landon), and don't even want to be. I had a kid on a team recently who was clearly out there because his dad wanted him to be. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink, and that's exactly what it was like with this kid at both practices and games. He literally would keep checking his watch at practice and ask over and over again if it was over yet. I didn't push him too hard, and just kept encouraging him to work on his skills. He scored his only goal of the year in the last game of the season, sticking his toe out and placing a cross right in the corner. I'm pretty sure his eyes were closed, and he actually tripped and fell down as he ran back to midfield to celebrate with the rest of his equally surprised teammates. Even with this culmination of the season, he didn't sign back up the next year. I'm not sure what the moral of the story is or if there even is one. I just think it's important to recognize and understand that each of your kids is going to have different objectives and goals, and that the coach is going to impact each of them in different ways. And there isn't necessarily anything wrong with that.
I think the major problem is respect for the head coach and by circumstance me as the assistant. For various reasons, I dont think the players respect the coach at all and some have begun to tune him out allready. I wont go into the reasons but, to me, they all stem from not having a professional attitude. Read what you will into that. Being his assistant, what he does is a reflection on me even though I would do things very differently if I had my own team . I am not worried about being liked or not being liked. To me, that is a non isssue. Respect, however is somthing that is important and I dont think it is there. The crappy thing is, once you lose it, it is a very hard thing to earn back.
pething you need to address this issue with the head coach first. Tell him of your concerns in a non-critical fashion. Discuss the issues regarding the players. Formulate a strategy and execute it. It's best to have individual discussions with the players and get the issues out on the table and addressed. Do it quickly before it becomes a bigger issue or it festers over time.