Moving the goal posts,... literally!

Discussion in 'Referee' started by campbed, Sep 29, 2009.

  1. campbed

    campbed Member

    Oct 13, 2006
    New Hampshire, USA
    Saw this on another board.

    Goalkeeper moves the posts inward to make his goal smaller. Gets caught on camera and by the referee.

    Video here: http://su.pr/8Thmoj

    What is the crime and punishment and restart?

    Let the fun begin!

    Now I'll be looking for this "old" keeper trick.
     
  2. Elizondo

    Elizondo Member

    Jul 6, 2009
    USA
    Had the referee witnessed it, the GK should have been booked for UB and shown the yellow card.

    1.6 NO PLAYER MODIFICATIONS TO THE FIELD
    Goalkeepers or other players may not make unauthorized marks on the field of play. The player who makes such marks or alterations on the field to gain an unfair advantage may be cautioned for unsporting behavior. Players may return bent or leaning corner flags to the upright position, but they
    may not bend or lean them away from the upright position to take a corner kick, nor may the corner flag be removed for any reason.
    Advice to Referees, 2009-2010

    Examples:

    Gouging the turf to "setup" a ball at the taking of a free kick

    GK marking the center of his goal by scuffing the goal line or making other marks in and around his goal area, etc.

    Player removing the corner flag on a windy day because it's interfering with the way s/he wants to play the ball, etc.

    As for the restart:
    I can't imagine stopping the match for this. It's the sort of thing that would happen before the match started, and the sort of thing that would be brought to the referee's attention at a stoppage. So the restart would be whatever the restart was.

    But...if by chance the CR witnesses this during play:

    Play has been stopped because of the misconduct. IFK from the point where the infraction occurred, which in this instance is inside the goal area, so the restart is subject to the special circumstances listed in Law 8/13.
     
  3. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    I disagree with your assessment of these two.

    GK marking the center of the goal does not allow him "to gain an unfair advantage" IMO, so no USB.

    Also, flags are to be placed on flagpoles - for safety, the flagpole is often on a spring. On very wind days, these springs allow the pole to lean because of the wind. IMO, it is appropriate for the flagpole to be temporarily removed under these conditions - of course, permission should be requested of the official before doing so.
     
  4. Elizondo

    Elizondo Member

    Jul 6, 2009
    USA
    Wow. Talk about inventive referees.

    I cite an official USSF document, and you write that it's "my" assessment and that in your opinion, I'm wrong.

    Good luck with that approach.
     
  5. Alberto

    Alberto Member+

    Feb 28, 2000
    Northern, New Jersey
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't think Sportbilly is a referee. So there you have your answer.
     
  6. campbed

    campbed Member

    Oct 13, 2006
    New Hampshire, USA
    Oh no! Another thread about to go off track from the original post/question!!

    And after only the third post. Rats.
     
  7. DadOf6

    DadOf6 Member

    Jul 4, 2005
    Taylorsville, UT
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    These marks are specifically disallowed and should not be there. They are made to help the 'keeper position himself. Using an illegal mark to help a player perform better is clearly unsporting.

    By specifiacally disallowing it the IFAB has defned it as inappropriate.
     
  8. ref2coach

    ref2coach Member

    May 27, 2004
    TN, USA
    Wow, Talk about an inventive referee/instructor, I cite an official USSF document within an official USSF website and you write that it's "my" assessment and that in your opinion, I'm wrong.

    Good Luck with that approach!

    Mr. Kettle please reference your post #23 in the "Position when running down the Line" thread as you admonish Mr. Pot.


    By the way Mr. Kettle this is the authority of the cite: As of February 23, 2000, all replies to technical questions posted in this column will have been coordinated with and approved by the U. S. Soccer Federation’s National Program for Referee Development.
     
  9. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    Technically you are correct - I gave it up when my boys became old enough for me to coach.

    Refereeing took me away from my kids and coaching allows me to be with them.
     
  10. ref2coach

    ref2coach Member

    May 27, 2004
    TN, USA
    Sport Billy, I would suggest to you that as soon as your kids are old enough to referee get them certified and referee with them. I coached my Son from age 5 to 14. He got certified at age 9 worked 1st recreation game as a 10 year old. He and I have many good memories of time shared to, from and working matches together. He is 19 now and playing college soccer. He and I both still referee but rarely together any more. He will often call me on his way home from refereeing to swap stories. :)
     
  11. Rydianstealth

    Rydianstealth Member

    Jul 24, 2009
    Club:
    BYU Cougars
    I got teary eyed just thinking about it when my kids get old enough. I hope we get to exchange our war stories too.:D
     
  12. Elizondo

    Elizondo Member

    Jul 6, 2009
    USA
    Ref2coach, thanks for your input, honestly.

    I suppose I have a problem regarding www.askareferee.com as an original source. The USSF does not cite it. The USSF instructional material does not include references to Jim Allen's remarks. Rather, Jim references USSF staff as "assisting" him.

    When these individuals and other USSF national clinicians start using slides of original source documents from www.askareferee.com then I will refer to that source as an original and primary source.


    Jim Allen, National Instructor Staff/National Assessor.
    Dan Heldman, National Instructor Staff
    Alfred Kleinaitis
    , USSF Manager of Referee Development and Education
    Paul Tamberino
    , USSF Director of Referee Development
    Brian Hall,
    USSF Manager of Assessment and Training
    David McKee
    , USSF National Director of Assessment (assessment matters)
    Ulrich Strom
    , National Instructor and National Assessor (matters in general)

    Until then, I view www.askareferee.com as the valuable resource to the community that it is.

    With respect to mechanics, I have witnessed individuals on this list making points contrary to the posting you cite. All I am saying is, the mechanics instruction I am getting at tournaments that folks like Alfred and Paul actually attend, is contrary to what you shared with us.

    It's a confusing situation for all of us. I stand by my assertion that a referee should go with mechanics instruction that the authority figures who can most influence their development and career are telling them to do, and I'm passing on what I have heard from such individuals.

    With respect to the LOTG, which is what this thread is about, the waters are much more clear.
     

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