Mourinho slags Arsenal

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by antifan, Nov 14, 2004.

  1. antifan

    antifan Member+

    Aug 14, 2004
    The Scottie
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Mourinho says Arsenal defending a joke- UK Sunday People
    Alright, I'm really beginning to hate this guy but his analysis is kinda hard to disagree with when it comes to the state of our defending. It does seem that he's starting the mind games a little early, but maybe its like X-mas, the BS starts earlier every year. I love how the word arrogant comes out of this guy's piehole every time he opens his trap. Maybe he figures if he says it himself, the media hacks will shy away from using it as a description of his intolerable personality.
     
  2. Its only Ray Parlour

    Aug 3, 2003
    London
    It will be interesting to see what kind of success Chelsea have this season, because if they fail to win one of the 3 big prizes (Prem, CL........FA Cup), the "show me your medals" approach he takes to management will have little resonance and his self-promoted arrogant ways will make him look rather foolish in the process.
     
  3. fedwood

    fedwood Member

    Sep 13, 2004
    hes right
    champions letting in 4 goals to a team struggling to score goals is a disgrace
     
  4. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 16, 1999
    Big City Blinking
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He's also probably right when he says "the manager can't be happy" about the defense letting in 4 goals. It's just Mourinho showing that he has a keen grasp of the obvious. A job in Scotland Yard awaits, I'm sure.
     
  5. ddw31089

    ddw31089 New Member

    Jun 14, 2004
    Gothenburg, Sweden
    What a serious tw*t Mourinho is. But he is a genius as well. Anyone know how many games he has lost the last year and a half? Something like 3? That's pretty damn good.
     
  6. Eddie26

    Eddie26 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 23, 2004
    Pittsadelphia
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think (as someone posted earlier) that JM is starting the mind games up already. The game is a little more than a month away and he know's the build up for it is going to be crazy. I think he was waiting for something to happen to Arsenal so he could fire the first blow and giving up 4 to Spurs was it. First shot fired, won't be long to AW returns it!

    On a technical point though, I think Arsenal is just a totally different team without Sol playing. He's the linchpin to your team IMO. If I got to pick one player to miss the Chelsea game, it would be either Sol. I think he provides your whole backline with so much confidence that they'll get the job done and without him playing, the D just assume they can't do the job. Luckily your attacking is so dynamic that a game like today you were able to pull it out.
     
  7. Dave_M

    Dave_M New Member

    May 25, 2004
    Enfield
    I could disagree more fedwood. The objective in a game of football, at its fundamental level, is to score more goals that your opponent. Doing so nets you 3 points. Its still 3 points if you win it 1-0, 6-0, or 28-27.

    Take Brazil for example. World champions. Supurb team. They concede all over the place but it doesnt matter because by the end of the game they have scored more goals than their opponents.
     
  8. Clan

    Clan Member

    Apr 23, 2002
    At the end of the day, Dave, thats the only thing that counts, quite agree.

    However, has anybody notice that the goal difference between us is now down, from what seemed a huge insurmountable hurdle a few weeks ago, to just 3 now.
     
  9. paulocesar

    paulocesar Member

    Oct 4, 2000
    Mourinho may be arrogant, but he is right. If I were to name the best 4 teams in Europe in current form, its not a surprise that they are Juve, Barca, Chelsea and Lyon. Note that all have the best defensive records in their respective leagues, as well as leading the pace in first place.

    Arsenal have a lot of work to do....Wenger usually gets things right in the spring, but the key is to not let Chelsea get too far away ( i actually like the fact that Chelsea are in first place...how many times do you see a team top of the table by Christmas and then another club winning the league in May ;) )
     
  10. antifan

    antifan Member+

    Aug 14, 2004
    The Scottie
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I have to disagree, Real Madrid has been playing this way for the past two years and it hasn't helped them much. If you limit teams to one goal or less ( as Chelsea have done, unforturnately) then one or two goals scored gets a win or a draw everytime. That being said i totally agree that one can blame the current state of the defense down to the absence of Campbell, when he returns things will be much more solid. As for the lack of depth, unfortunately until we start raking in the money from selling out the new stadium i fear we will have to deal with the limitations of a smallish senior squad and hope that our players remain healthy.
     
  11. Henrik

    Henrik New Member

    Aug 24, 2004
    Only problem is that when a team makes so many defensive errors like Arsenal they are likely to lose more games, particularly in Europe where they wont make so many horrendous defensive errors as Spurs did yesterday. And on a day when we are struggling to score 1 or 2, we will leak 2 or 3 goals. Get George Graham back to work with the back 4 I'd say.

    I think the Chelsea guy who posted earlier is quite right. Campbell cant come back quick enough.
     
  12. Eddie26

    Eddie26 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 23, 2004
    Pittsadelphia
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I have to disagree with this. I've been keeping an eye on the attendance figures at Highbury this year and to my count, only 1 or 2 games have been sellouts. I look at the attendance because I think it's crazy for them to build such a large stadium when they are not the only show in town.

    According to soccernet, the usually have been getting about 37,000 for games at Highbury which I believe holds around 38,500. So that 1,500 seats unaccounted for. Maybe I am wrong (or soccernet) but that's what I've noticed this year.
     
  13. Clan

    Clan Member

    Apr 23, 2002
    That may possibly be down to away fans not taking their full allocation and being unable to sell the remainder because of segregation.
    Corporate seats being unsold also leaves empty spaces.
     
  14. Eddie26

    Eddie26 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 23, 2004
    Pittsadelphia
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Great, so I've been wasting my time looking at that every damn week.
     
  15. paulocesar

    paulocesar Member

    Oct 4, 2000
    Overreliance on one player does not make a good impression on a club's championship prospects...look at Milan with their dependence on Shevchenko scoring for them. If he doesn't, the rossoneri can't win...maybe draw.

    Same with Campbell. Yes the Arsenal defense looks better when he is in, but given his inability to go a whole season uninjured, its Wengers responsibility to have cover in every position. He didn't do that, and the defense will continue to look shaky if change isn't implemented in some way.

    I mean really...look at the official squad list on defense...(Lauren is slated as a midfielder)


    3-Ashley Cole, D

    18-Pascal Cygan, D

    20-Philippe Senderos, D

    22-Gael Clichy, D

    23-Sol Campbell, D

    31-Justin Hoyte, D

    35-Johan Djourou, D

    55-Olafur Ingi Skulason, D


    ...does that invoke fear from the opposition?? Me thinks not...
     
  16. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    Mourinho didn't really slag off Arsenal (just like he didn't promise we'd win the league on a certain date - he just said we could). If any team won 5-4, questions would be asked of its defense. Giving up that many goals just makes that obvious.
    If you look at teams who win their leagues, the correlation is generally between points and goals allowed, not goals scored. Defense does, in fact, win championships. You've allowed more goals than Boro(!!).
    I know, Campbell has been out for a while. And that hurts, obviously. But either that means Cygan is truly that bad, or Campbell won't solve all your problems. Are we, perhaps, discovering that Toure has the Silvestre disease - i.e., can only play well with a truly great CB next to him? Because that's not a good sign.
     
  17. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    Where's Toure? Sure he's listed as a defender.
     
  18. antifan

    antifan Member+

    Aug 14, 2004
    The Scottie
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hmm, good point. I wonder if the attendance figures are determined by the amount of tickets sold or by the amount of fans that actually attend. Who cares if everyone shows up, as long as fans are buying tickets the club is making money, and buying players!
     
  19. paulocesar

    paulocesar Member

    Oct 4, 2000
    Toure is listed as a midfielder as well...

    ...which goes to show how Wenger has mistrust in his defense since last season, when he decided to put Toure in as a defender (did the same for Lauren two or three seasons ago...what is it and Wenger's choices for defense!?!?)
     
  20. antifan

    antifan Member+

    Aug 14, 2004
    The Scottie
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, it worked out pretty well last year.
     
  21. paulocesar

    paulocesar Member

    Oct 4, 2000
    Yep...only Campbell started 35 league games last year (50 total) and Cygan 10 games...oh and of course Ranieri isn't Mourinho (just look what the Tinkerman has done in Valencia :rolleyes: )

    If Wenger thought Campbell was going to have another injury free season, he took the risk...and it failed. Cygan is on his third season at Arsenal...explain that to me....please...
     
  22. Dave_M

    Dave_M New Member

    May 25, 2004
    Enfield
    Absoloutly. Also Carling Cup games dont sell so well. 27,000 in attendance against Everton. Huge block of season ticket seating in the North Bank Upper was empty

    Also we loose the front couple of rows at Champs League games due to the larger advertising hoardings. Bleh.
     
  23. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 16, 1999
    Big City Blinking
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This all true but you can't expect the press to NOT exaggerate what Mourinho has said. ;) Two years ago, Wenger actually stated that Arsenal COULD go undefeated....he didn't make any Joe Nameth-like predictions or guarantees. Of course we all know how it got reported.

    As for the defense....I think it means that Cygan just really isn't that good. It's not fair at this point to lump Toure in with Silvestre...yet. You have to remember, this is only Toure's second season playing centerback....in one of the fastest leagues in the world. It's not surprising that someone still getting used to the position would do better with a solid partner like Campbell stabilizing things while he matures. That doesn't mean, however, that he won't be a great center back in his own right. It's too soon to make Silvestre comparisons.

    The other obvious problem with the defending stems from lack of cover in the midfield. Vieira is still trying to re-gain his form and that means a lot. Also, as much as he's bashed as being one of only two or three non-creative Brazilians on the planet, Gilberto is a good defender with regard to stopping attacks before they really start (disrupting passing lanes, etc.) and being a strong presence on set pieces. I don't think it's a coincidence at all that we're leaking goals right now when you consider the absence of Campbell and Gilberto and the lack of fitness of Vieira.

    Do I still want more defensive cover obtained during the January window? You bet. But I just think there are other reasons for the "goals against" number than all of the sudden our defenders suck (except Cygan). :p
     
  24. footballer10

    footballer10 New Member

    May 14, 2001
    Flower Mound, TX
    Pretty weak mind games then IMO. The only response I could imagine that getting is that Mourinho opens his big mouth too much.


    To the silly argument about who is listed as a defender that paulocesar is putting forth...... The list that was provided is absolutely not official, it looks to be the list that soccernet has. It is wrong and has been for years. Notice Lauren isn't listed as a defender, and hasn't ever been on soccernet. This is at least his 4th season as the starting right back. Please look at the official Arsenal site before you call something official. If you look there you'll find Toure and Lauren and whoever listed as a defender.

    Besides it isn't just defenders who defend. The whole team plays a role in defense. I'm sure AW will be putting the boys through the ringer about giving up 4 goals. Yes we have been poor at defending lately. We are missing a few cogs in defense in Gilberto and Campbell. Will their return make us great in defense? No. Good enough? Maybe. We'll just have to wait and see.
     
  25. paulocesar

    paulocesar Member

    Oct 4, 2000
    Here's the defender roster from Arsenal.com:

    Player P Ap Gl Ap Gl AP Gl Ap Gl Ap Gl Ap Gl

    3 Ashley Cole D 12 1 4 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 17 1
    12 Lauren D 13 1 4 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 18 1
    18 Pascal Cygan D 8 0 2 0 0 0 1 0 1 0 12 0
    20 Philippe Senderos D 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 2 0
    22 Gael Clichy D 1+3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 +1 0 1+4 0
    23 Sol Campbell D 4 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 6 0
    28 Kolo Toure D 13 0 4 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 18 0
    Sebastian Svard D 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 +1 0 0+1 0
    Ryan Garry D 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
    Daniel Karbassiyoon D 0 0 0 0 0 0 1+1 1 0 0 1+1 1
    Johan Djourou D 0 0 0 0 0 0 1+1 0 0 0 1+1 0

    Don't see that much of a difference from Soccernet's...which again, brings the point that I don't see anyone shaking at their boots at the prospect of scoring goals against Arsenal. Quality sides with good defenses will stop Arsenal...hence the ever apparent struggle Arsenal has in Europe with the Champions League the past 4 years.

    I think we can all agree that Tottenham are not a quality side :D

    (Personally, I'd like to think Wenger is smart enough to make some sort of change...but Mournihno taking advantage of the situation..or the press spinning it that way...whatever...is still a psychological conundrum for the Gunner defenders...ie "Can we get a game where we don't concede a goal?")
     

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