Thank you for that information. Shaw is a generational talent. Moultrie is not. I would have asked a lot for Shaw too. It is called business. All other pro sports leagues in the US operate the same way. Shaw could have waited for the regular draft if she wanted, but she chose this route.
A generational talent for only until 2023 contract with no option? Don't know if thats why Shaw agree to it because she wants to play for 1 year or so with San Diego before going somewhere else.
ytrs, do you know where one could go to see US youth national team stats for Shaw? I am asking because I am not a fan of the eye test. I know stats cannot tell the full story, but I trust them more than the eye test. It will be interesting to see what she already has accomplished at that high level. I gather it is a lot. (I have not been able to find YNT game stats that tell very much.)
Unfortunately I do not know. I don't think any of the youth stuff is available publicly. But, Shaw and Moultrie are both going to the U20 World Cup in August for the U.S. So perhaps we can get more insight then.
I was surprised it was a short term contract. But Shaw initially wanted Washington Spirit, not the Wave. So maybe this was the best (length) the Wave could get out of her so she would give them a chance.
Generational talent is an overused term. How many generational players can a generation have? With the pathway as it is in the US, too much emphasis is placed on the opinion of the USSF. A group whose opinions are based on limited time with players. Deciding to pass on College is a personal decision, but is the NWSL environment conducive to turning potential into the real thing? the top Colleges match or exceed most NWSL teams in facilities, coaching, support staff and many other key things. Many of the games are a higher standard than most U-20 national team games. A top ACC,Pac-12,Big10 team would beat the majority of the teams the U-20s face outside of the last 8 say in the WC. they would almost certainly beat all the other CONCACAF U-20 teams pretty handily. International youth soccer is a different challenge, but only a handful of games are truly high level
It also isW possible Shaw signed only a 1-year contract, with no option year, in order to keep a move to Europe open as a possibility -- or at least as a bargaining chip. I think it likely, for Moultrie and Shaw, that their particular decisions to go to the NWSL put them in better situations, soccerwise, than if they were at the colleges they likely would have played at. Of necessity, there is an emphasis at the colleges on winning immediately as distinguished from developing young players. (Just look at the turnover among college head coaches and you can see why.) At least for a very young player like Moultrie, she has had a lot of time with the Thorns were the focus could be strictly on development, knowing that she would not be playing in NWSL games for a number of years. That may not be the case with Shaw, since she is starting out with the Wave at a considerably older age than Moultrie when she started with the Thorns -- we will see. I also think it likely that Sophia Smith has developed better with the Thorns than she would have if she had stayed at Stanford (the difference in her game from even last year to this has been enormous). Of course, it probably depends on the club and the sophistication of its operation. With the Wave and the Thorns, I think you get two of the more sophisticated operations in the NWSL.
The College they were destined to play at was UNC. No turnover. Moultrie was not College eligible so slightly different. When you say "would likely play at" are you saying they would have played less at UNC than they will in the NWSL? Stanford do a great job of developing players that want that. I get why players choose to leave or pass on College, but I think there are other factors at play that dont get discussed much. Money, the College experience outside the sport etc that have a big impact. Stanford,UNC and the other top soccer programs have an established track record of development success with players in that 18-22 range that no NWSL team has.
What does Moultrie have to do with UNC or Stanford developing 18-22 y.o. Players? we’ll be able to compare her development in 3-6 years. She is, after all 16 now, and still developing before any NCAA school could influence her development. the focus of this thread was originally whether Moultrie could compete in the NWSL. She has ended that question with her play.
I used "would likely play at" simply because commitments can change so that the players might not have ended up at UNC. No NWSL team, so far, has an established track record with young players (except that the Thorns’ record so far looks pretty good, but is limited to Moultrie which is too small a sample to make for an established track record). So at this point, no one can say reliably one way or the other whether college or an NWSL program such as Moultrie has been in is the better developmental route for a potential professional or world level player.
I agree with lots on here but sometimes I get a 'whoa there' in my mind when I read something. First, no one at UNC plays more than 60 minutes a game! There are pros now that happened to at UNC and so would have likely happened to Horan and Shaw and Moultrie, etc. UNC has had 1 and done's too like Bronze who went pro "early". Now about the NWSL environment. Have you seen the training at these clubs? There's 10-20 people at every session or activity. Dozens more at the games. Coaches, ATs, Equipment, Facilities and Security, Nutritionist, Sports Psych, media and community relations folks. All around all the time. Meals, cardio, rehab, appearances - all carefully planned. There are some schools trying this with their p5 resources but all college kids get 20ish Fall games in 10 weeks plus 5 spring scrimmages over 12 months with big semester breaks. Some say that's better for player development? I think the whole point of this Moultrie example is to see if it becomes more common. Will it become a better and better option for the top few players any given year. I'm a big college fan, believe me, but the resources going in to youth and semi-pro women's soccer should result in more examples like OM but not quite yet it seems. The developmental focus and club resources noted in this thread is real and will make a difference over time. Women's college coaches are watching very carefully how the top mens players are getting plucked to go pro early. (Many top D1 Men's coaches think college soccer is very broken you know). Major points about the money are true but things are much better now for at least the top top level players. The new CBA and the benefit of getting into that US player pool is real. I'm pretty sure Rodman just made 150K with the USWNT in one tournament. I think there's a 100K minimum salary with benefits for uswnt pool players and see's at 250K from her club. So, she's doing 500K easy this year without counting much of the nil stuff. Wonder how that compares to Sophomore year at Washington State?
The quality of the organization complicates the argument because not every development opportunity is created equal at the professional level in the US. (Certainly that is always the case, but it is exacerbated in the NWSL). As you mentioned, they are going with 2 of the better ones, but overall, the NWSL has too many mickey mouse operations and the coaching is extremely hit or miss. It is surviving and getting better, but they still need to get owners in with more money who build better facilities and improve the coaching significantly. Shaw, for example, is definitely better off not with the Spirit. I am sure Mark will clear him out pretty soon and bring in a top coach, but she would not have been in a good developmental situation training with the Spirit staff.
Sorry, this is harsh. Kris Ward is certainly lucky to have the job and may not last there but they did just win the NWSL title. Remember? He had to pick up the pieces after a scandal...okay that's half the league but still... So, you're saying Rodman isn't developing? You read above that she's making a half million dollars this year +. Sanchez played 3 years in college but her time at the Spirit has her getting uswnt caps. So she just made the 150K playing in Mexico. Same with Hatch who was just named NWSL poy at the espy's. But somehow the Spirit staff is bad?? Com' on man.....
You are kind of all over the map here. First off, whatever record they had last year, this year they have won one out of thirteen games. one. That kind of record gets Mourinho or Guardiola canned mid season. ( Mourinho got canned by Tottenham in 17 months with 27 wins, 14 draws and 17 defeats) as to whether Rodman is developing, she’s a forward. Success as a forward is measured by goals, not money. Maybe she is overpaid. Last year she scored 7 goals on 2,054 minutes or a goal every 294 minutes or about every 3 1/4 games. not horrible, but not terrific, either. this year she has 2 goals in 740 minutes, or a goal very 4.1 games. I’ll leave it to you as to whether that is development,
So you want to compare Jose and Pep to Kris Ward at the NWSL Washington Spirit? Really? Who's all over the place? (I do think Ward would love that btw) I'll give you a half-million reasons why Rodman is happy right now! She's earned 7 caps scoring twice, is one of the highest paid female soccer players maybe in history, has already won a league title, and she was only born in 2002. Not sure how you want to measure development of professional women's soccer players. I think the stats will come. Hatch is still the main scorer at the Spirit. This could all go to her head for sure. Mal Pugh struggled for a bit but is now a great pro. I will bet we'll be getting a big dose of Trinity Rodman over the next several years. Totally my opinion of course, but I do not see Moultrie having the same impact over time. I haven't seen Shaw enough to have an opinion.
Well, Moultrie is having a better season than either Rodman or Sanchez. she also has two goals, but she’s a midfielder, not a forward. And she has her two goals in 397 minutes, or a goal every 2.2 games, which is more like forward production. She also plays defense.
Moultrie is not even a starter. Honestly are you her father? You are so defensive of her whenever any has an opinion of her that doesn’t match your fandom level of support. Rodman and Sanchez are also on the full USWNT. Talk to us when Moultrie gets there. My bet is she doesn’t.
What goal posts have I moved. I have always been consistent in my evaluation of Moultrie. I did not bring Rodman and Sanchez into the discussion. The other poster did, so I responded with where they are at. Moultrie is an average athlete, who is going to be a long term solid pro (and sometimes starter eventually). But, she is not special.
Looks who’s here! 👀💪#WaveFC | @jeymar10s pic.twitter.com/eABnuhI8sE— San Diego Wave FC (@sandiegowavefc) July 24, 2022
I was going to post how the trailblazers are frequently NOT special. Jackie Robinison is the obivously exeption, but if you look at the careers of Jean-Marc Bosman, Sam Cunningham and Curt Flood, well, decidely average. Except not in the case of Flood. Well before my time, but he was pretty damn good: 15 seasons, 3x All Star, 7x Gold Glove, 6x .300 hitter, and when he retired trailed only Willie Mays and Richie Ashburn with games played in center. That is NOT a marginal player.
This thread is becoming like the Coaches on Hot Seat Thread. Leave Olvia Moutrie alone. Leave Jaedyn Shaw alone, too. Leave all young women under the age of 21 years alone. Let them play and develop in peace. The NWSL (and its sister professional women's soccer leagues around the world) isn't the Premier League, Ligue 1, Serie A, La Liga, Eredivisie, Primera División, or Campeonato Brasileiro Série A. The Portland Thorns Academy isn't AFAC Ajax Youth Academy. These young women don't need "another brick in the wall." Like the actress Keke Palmer, let each one of these young women shout out loud: "I'm an Incomparable Talent!"
On the world stage 🇺🇸@olivia_moultrie is heading to the 2022 FIFA U-20 World Cup with the @USYNT:— Portland Thorns FC (@ThornsFC) July 25, 2022
LOLOL. How exactly are we impacting Moultrie and Shaw? Both chose to play in the states at the highest level they could.
The NWSL and its sister professional women's soccer leagues are just that ... pro leagues. Take your misogyny elsewhere. This is a women's sports forum and they are professional athletes.