Yes they have pretty good talent but im guess you only watched the EURO under, take a look at the World Cup Under please. Dont get me wrong they do have some yonger talent but i mean not as good as Germany or Brazil do. Sorry if you mis understood me.
Yes they have pretty good talent but im guess you only watched the EURO under, take a look at the World Cup Under please. Dont get me wrong they do have some yonger talent but i mean not as good as Germany or Brazil do. Sorry if you mis understood me.
The point about Spain is that they have a youth development institution called FC Barcelona that are quite fanatical about their passing game. Where Holland and at Ajax this was once practiced a lot, Barca has taken things to another level. It also seems as if they have really matured and internalized their philosophy into every fiber of their club from top to bottom, with a youth system that delivers the talents in a characteristic mold, at a good rate and in high quality (Thiago looks really good). A quite impressive game recently was a CL game where Barca fielded a second team with youth that played completely identical as the first team, also winning with quite a margin. I had a hard time to separate the first team from the way this second team was playing. My point is that a Brazil or Germany can produce great talents (Germany and especially Brazil being also many times bigger population wise), but the question is, how are they gonne get the ball? Santos in the club world cup was a good example. Neymar can be the second coming of Jezus Christ, but apart from indeed one or two chances, they were blown away. All the "on ball" talent that Brazil produces, first need to get the ball, before they can demonstrate their ability and become dangerous. Ganzo is not such a tracker from what I have seen. I think Germany can win with bigger margins from all other teams than Spain, but when Germany have to face Spain, it will be Spain with the ball possession again and I have yet to see if they can deliver a match against the Spanish where they don't look toothless. I think what people need to focus more on is how Spain can select players from Barca and play a system that can overcome greater talent at the opposite site, rather then have to count on generation after generation of kids with the perfect genetic makeup and the best step overs. IMO Spain is not Spain anymore from the past and they are here to stay at this general higher level (you have to look at it band broad wide with the ups and downs that also happen with the better country's), with a kind of talent molded in a system that can still dominate more talented sites, because of their passing game.
The problem with Spain is, that all their possesion doesn't translate into goals and the spanish NT isn't barcelona.
Given the amount of people who seem insistent that England are feeble also-rans of world football, I'd have to ask where all these people who rate England as tournament favourites are, because it's not in England.
England weren't even favorites in 1966....they were a 7/1 shot. I know because I had 10 quid on 'em....
[You sound as if you were a fellow contemporary of England '66: Do you remember how so many of the fans and those in the press were second-guessing "Sir Alf"? The almost constant questioning of why the likes of Jack Charlton and "Nobby" Stiles were in the England starting XI?]
If your talking about Barcelona's passing game, lets not forget the main piece on that team is Messi (Argentina) and another huge piece is Dani Alves. Spain's squad is very good but im talking about over the next few years Brazil and Germany have more use able talent then they do. Im not putting Spain down but just what i think.
Sure Messi is the spear point on the spear, but so far it really showed Spain does not need him so much but Messi needs them. Argentina were taken apart by Germany, while Spain won a Euro and WC after each other. The Barca midfield create a solid plateau around the middle line or even a bit further than that, from which constant through balls, chips and deep passes are launched, perfect for Messi's game. You can't deny Messi is doing better at Barca than at the Argentine NT if you look at goals (and assist? not sure, makes a lot at Barca though). Spain lack some penetration power, but they also have a Mata who is doing pretty good at Chelsea. The engine is in midfield. Spain, because of Barca especially looking at that second team that played in the CL seem to have found a way to produce now a brand that can just overtake the NT if it must. They of course already do this to a certain extend and there are voices to just replace Alonso and go for Busquets. Why not go full Barca? That midfield seems to me pretty dominant against Real and Alonso. Have you seen how Busquets fooled Ozil? Busquest is in fact a good example for what I say. Is he really that good? I mean if he would not have been brought up in the Barca system and not play for that team now? Don't think he is that good, while in that system I don't think the quality would go down if Barca replace Alonso with him. This is my point. I do not doubt the quality of Neymar, Gotze or Ozil, but even with such great footballers, Real and Santos get beat. Santos really bad and we have actually seen nothing special of Neymar. You first need the ball before those delicious "on ball" players can do their magic.
You are 100% right. As a German, I don't see us beating Spain despite whatever talents we may have coming up. Spain has a system, the other teams have players. Germany actually has a system too, but it still relies on quick attacks too much which won't allow them to hold the ball and dictate the pace of the game. Obviously that is because Germany plays still don't have the possession skills needed to hold the ball well in high pressure situations. Another thing to add, is that Spain defends extremely well as a team. A casual observer doesn't notice it because they don't have to make amazing tackles. What they do is that as soon as they lose the ball, they immediately tighten the spaces and attempt to win it back. Pressing. So while they may lose the ball, they are putting pressure on the other team very far up the field and prevent them from building structured attacks. With Germany, for instance, I always feel that they can be scored on very easily. The reason is that they try to press, but are not as good at it. This opens them up to counter attacks.
In the last Barca Real Madrid game, Barca stopped really applying this and they got scored 2 goals in a short space of time. That tells me they are nothing but normal people, but when you want to beat them you have to get better at what they do, because the passing game is such a ... how will I call it .... overwriting thing. It's a game changer. You need the ball before demonstrating all that ability and to get it, you will have to go toe to toe with the best passers of the game. You get to their level in that department or they will keep doing what they do. That's why they have been so consistent IMO.
Yes i never said Spain isnt good, they are good but like i said they arent the same as before. They do have good youth but not better then Brazil and Germany. The current Spain line is better then Brazils but in the long run im talking about.
I can agree with this, but I am trying to say something different. Spain (Barca) have something in place that to some extend transcends the individual ability that Brazil is so well known for and we now also see produced in this generation by Germany. Though in that department they may very well be better, I say the way things are now in Spain with Barcelona being financially so powerful to keep any player they educate and a youth development that has fully matured with an almost fanatical passing/pressing philosophy that we may well see a Spain that will more or less be able to keep competing and winning from teams that have maybe more individual talent coming up even if they have to go through a transition period between generations. All in all I think Barca has just raised the bar with what they do there and it can all be clicked right into the Spanish NT which could compensate for many fluctuations football is known for, as also genetically you will have a basket of super talents rise here and there. This last is where you try to point to. I try to point to the system Barca and thus Spain have in place to make that less relevant.
England stoled the 66 world cup everyone knows it was fixed that was the biggest robbery in the history of the world cup.
Football is cyclical. Always has been, always will be. No Barca can stop that from being so and I have explained in my post before the last one that you will of course see Spain have the usual ups and downs even a Brazil or Germany experience and fall to. Brazil two quarter finals in a row at the WC. But Spain is not anymore Spain from the past and they have probably the biggest youth development facility right in their country playing a brand of football that is able to shut down great "on ball"players. That CL win by their second team is probably not analysed enough here on Bigsoccer. It was impressive and maybe provided us a window of things to come. Curious how this is going to develop. What three and why do you define them as Brazilians if it comes down to football ability?
It shouldn't be here either. For the record, for those still convinced everyone in England wildly overrates the English team, this little poll was taken from the UK section of skyscrapercity.com, when asked how they thought England would fare in Euro 2012 Champions - 4 Runners up - 2 Lose in SF - 12 Lose in QF - 19 3rd in group - 6 4th in group - 5 Not a vast poll, granted, but it's pretty much how anyone in England would expect the voting to go.
It is not enough to note the system, technique and the playing style; they also possess and incredible amount of stamina. Just incredible. Do you have an idea about when this started? And why they are miles ahead above every other youth academy? 'Our' own country used to be one of the front-runners in these kind of things. To give a hint about the first question: in the 'Ronaldinho-era' it was noted that Barcelona played technical football but their youth system wasn't as famous and praised as it is nowadays. When did the revolution happen?
What are the numbers compared to other teams? If you say incredible do you look at the total distance per player covered in a game or are you amazed about the chunk of it, that is performed in high intensity (75% of sprint or higher)? You can also make a case that because they coordinate their high intensity activity's so well, that they also have build in a system to be energy efficient, bringing the numbers down again for what they would otherwise be. I am not a big fan of intercommunication, where one person on the forum intervenes in a discussion to start quizzing people while knowing the answer. I think you mean it sympathetic, but I kindly ask you to answer your own questions. As for crediting people who have contributed to the current culture, setup, output and success of La Masia and FC Barcalona, Pep Guardiola has always taken a very clear position: Pep Guardiola: "Cruyff created the Sistine Chapel, Rijkaard restored it." Link PS I am not a Barca fan and I have even taken a brake of watching their games as high quality football injections, especially after seeing all the drama, flopping and running to the referee in the El Classico's the past years. The whole thing put me off watching it any longer with regularity.
Thiago Alcantara, Rafael Alcantara and Rodrigo Moreno arent more spaniard than messi is. They went to spain at a young age to play football just as messi did but that doesnt make them spaniards. Barca Academy gets way overrated now because of barca success and is only natural. When you are on top you cant do no wrong but the academy is no better then ajax or others around the world. Just like you said in your own post things are cyclical and this is spain time to gloat and be on top. Name me the messi, iniesta,xavi that are in the academy right now. Plus most academies recruit more than they develop a lot of times they get prodigies that are already good and bring them in and then they get the credit for developing them. Right now if you look at the youngsters coming up you cant say spain is better than any other country. I would rate the youngsters from brazil, belgium, germany, argentina and even mexico is right up t here also, to have more quality than spain.