Morelia postmortem [R]

Discussion in 'Sporting Kansas City' started by Wizardscharter, Aug 29, 2002.

  1. Wizardscharter

    Wizardscharter New Member

    Jul 25, 2001
    Blue Springs, MO
    KC is out of the FCCC. 3rd place and best MLS finish isn't a bad way to go. All 16 teams probably would have taken that at the start of it all. Also a nice finish from Brown. We could use a bit of that the next two months.

    It's a shame that part of Johnson County can't be bothered to show up if there is a chance that there might be people with better tans than themselves attending. That's as nice as I can put it.

    Don't get me wrong, I understand why people might be uncomfortable. There were many little boys out there just waiting to test their machismo. It was pretty comical to watch the 5-foot tall mayan Mexi-midgits machismo crew march by our section and scowl at us, like that made them brave or something. For those who don't know Arrowhead, you really have to go out of your way to get to the Mystics section. On the left is a blocked off section and to the right is a tunnel.

    What they missed was an extremely charged atmosphere not unlike a big neutral site CFB game. There was way too much testosterone in the air, and I myself was caught up in it. My appologies to whoever it was that grabbed me after the little Mexican shrimp rammed Matt and sent him into me at the end of the game. I wasn't going anywhere and that little guy wasn't going to do anything. As Keano put it, "the red mists came over me". I let that dork push my buttons. I wish I could blame it on beer, but I didn't have any. To whoever it was I barked at, sorry.

    Red cards are starting to become a regular feature of KCW matches. It's a bit beyond a trend now. I'm all for a cleaner game, but when the Klein's and Meola's of the world have to eat red, it's hard to see it as a good thing. Hope it changes, on to league matters with Chicago.
     
  2. SamPierron

    SamPierron BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 30, 1998
    Kansas City
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Dave, your anti-JoCo crap doesn't fly. It doesn't make sense. There were about as many Wizards fans there as already had tickets to the game...namely, full season ticket holders. That's about 1500 people. The Wizards made absolutely no marketing efforts for this game like group sales or even radio promotion.

    In a 15K crowd, about 6000 of them are full or partial season ticket holders, 6000 are through group sales, and the other 3K are various walkups. That's based on the numbers I've seen about Wizards ticket sales...I wouldn't bet my life on it, but it's pretty close to that.

    On a Wednesday night in an unwinnable situation, the only people who are going to show up are those who have tickets to the game...but, even then, it makes more sense to hold on to your tickets and bring friends to the next one on exchanged tickets.

    About half of season ticket holders are from Johnson County. I saw the usual suspect full season ticket holders there. It's an unwarranted swipe.

    Further, I noticed *you* weren't in your normal seat last night. You were with us, in the Cauldron, where you knew you'd be among friends. You altered your behavior based on the situation, and you've done it for almost every international game. Frankly, I wish you were in our section for every game, because I know you're as dedicated as anyone in the Cauldron, but your behavior was altered, just as you accuse the chimeral no-show Johnson Countians.
     
  3. McGinty

    McGinty Member

    Aug 29, 2001
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Apology accepted, Captain Needa.

    That would normally be followed by dark side of the force choke :D, but I don't have those powers. (yet)

    Anyway, I've dealt with emotionally charged people before, so don't worry about it. I was just afraid that the people across the tunnel were begging for provocation.
     
  4. Wizardscharter

    Wizardscharter New Member

    Jul 25, 2001
    Blue Springs, MO
    First thank you for the compliment.
    Second, I'll admit my seemingly irrational biases. They do all have roots.
    Third, no way anywhere near half of the regular "family" types showed up for that game. No way. The attendance looked similar to every other Wed game and you have to factor in a few thousand Morelians in that number. At some point suburbia didn't show and that's been consistent for every Mex. game. If they were not generally from JoCo then that's my misunderstanding of numerous posts describing the ticket base as mostly being JoCo. It's been used many times as a solid reason for moving the stadium there. Whatever part of suburbia the no-shows were from, it's a bad deal.
    To sitting with you guys: I sold my game tickets and all my unused ones from my second seat to Morelia fans at face value. Point being I thought I was doing them a favor by saving them money. Goodwill and all that. Ironic considering the happenings of the evening.
    Also, I don't remember when I last sat in the Cauldron, but I do know when I did, it was behind the goal and pre-KC checkerboard. The other Int'l matches I have been in my seat in 136, usually by myself and surrounded by the enemy du jour. I havn't had a problem being around Mexi-fans before last night. BTW, the Mexi-fans are a whole lot more cordial on the other side. It's almost like they marvel at Americans that can speak about the game as if they understand it. Kind of like if you are in a foreign country and you find someone that speaks English and ISN'T American. {Aside, this is best observed in Swedish women. I highly, highly recommend it! If you can find a way to work the phrase, "Talk dirty to me in Swedish", into conversation,I promise you it's worth the effort. I digress}

    OK, What did we learn today kids?
    JoCo might not be so bad, but somebody isn't showing to the Mexi-games, Dave got rid of his extras, reacts poorly to machismo from 5 foot lippy Mayans, and likes Swedes.
     
  5. Lucid

    Lucid Member

    May 17, 1999
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Sorry to be blunt, but you are a peice of crap wizardscharter. Because there was a small crowd at the game where we had lost 6-1 to this team prior, and there was no possible hope of us advancing, you have to find the scapegoat, and since you say you didn't see as many "families" there, it's obviously JoCo's fault. I wasn't aware that only families lives in JoCo, and it's apparently only single, married with no kids, or seniors that live on the Missouri side. Are you taht narrow minded that if you see a 30 year old couple, with three boys wearing their soccer teams jerseys pull up to the stadium in a Minivan or SUV, you immediately think... "Damn Johnson Countians!" Population of the Greater KC area is 3 million, population of JoCo is about 500,000, are you telling me that there isn't anyone that lives outside of JoCo that may appear to be the typical JoCo family, even though they live in say... Lee's Summit? Kids play soccer out there too.

    This Douglas county resident didn't goto the game (cause I had to work) but I'm originally from JoCo. But also Ben, a JoCo resident didn't goto the game either, and he's originally from the MO side. We're all one F'ing city, and we'll continue to have problems agreeing on where and what to spend money on until we realize that. MO or KS, who gives a rats ass. I take more pride in being a resident of KC than I do in taking pride in being a resident of Kansas.

    I hate bringing up JoCo arguments here, and I try to avoid them and have in the past, but that comment was just stupid and he knows better.

    The anti-JoCo sentiment is almost funny becuase at least as least with racism, you can spot a clear different, or with religious discrimination you can point to often differences physically, or if not even that, just a belief structure that goes against your own that you don't approve of. But anti-countyism? How stupid does that sound? JoCo residents are just like many Wyandotte residents, they're just like many Jackson county residents, They're just like many Platte county residents, etc...

    Wake up!!
     
  6. Wizardscharter

    Wizardscharter New Member

    Jul 25, 2001
    Blue Springs, MO
    Re: Re: Morelia postmortem [R]

    There was only one guy that was a problem. He came running full boar, shoulder first into someone (I thought Matt) who was hit hard enough to careen into me and knock me off balance. I'm not small. That prick did it just to provoke a reaction under the guise of wanting to speak to a player. He knew what he was doing. My response might have been a bit blunt in retrospect.

    Beyond that, he wasn't going to do anything. However, if I was him and had bail money in my pocket, I would have chosen the exact moment that you grabbed my arm. That's why I yelled; I didn't want to get sucker punched. Note for the future, unless your guy is being lippy to a cop or someone much bigger, don't ever grab your guy. Just get in the way and occupy the other guy if you're worried about it. Either way, that's very unlike me.
     
  7. BenC1357

    BenC1357 Member

    Feb 23, 2001
    KC
    Derek:
    Don't involve me here, I couldn't go, I'm at school 200 miles away and had more important things to do on the first Wednesday night of the semester. (install DirecTV and DSL) :)

    As for the JoCo arguement, David I'd say I disagree and think your opinion is wrong, but I dont think your opinion is so bad that you should be called a piece of crap. Most people have short tempers on certain subjects, but lets not forget that it's only his opinion. Keep in mind that this game was not advertised and not on any printed schedule. So that right there is going to knock out about half of the regular attendance. Then, of the people that follow close enough to know there was a game, they also knew it was 6-1 going in, and we were screwed. Why would someone other than a die hard that can't live without football go? Then add in the Mexi-fans that love to come cheer/jeer at any US/Mex club match. So I say, if its anyones fault at all, its the Wizards for losing 6-1 in the first leg and causing even some of the die hards to not care about this match. I for one would have driven the 200 miles if we had a chance at all.

    What's this about Matt getting charged at? I'm not there for one game and my best bud is getting attacked?! Good thing I wasn't there, I might have not been so cool headed as David seems to have been.
     
  8. SamPierron

    SamPierron BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 30, 1998
    Kansas City
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    1. I wouldn't say Matt was attacked so much as indelicately bumped by a guy eager to get some stuff signed. The dude bumped into Matt, then Tony, and the whole thing caromed into Dave, who then grabbed McGinty. It was mostly just rude on the dude's part.

    2. "Piece of crap" is a bit much, don't you think?

    3. There are about 1.8 million metropolitan area residents, not 3 million. Of those 1.8 million, about 450,000 live in Johnson County.

    4. About 50% of Wizards season ticket sales are in JoCo. About 20% are corporate seats whose users could live anywhere. Another 20% are residences in KC, MO, and the remaining 10% come from a variety of places. Those numbers didn't sound right to me, but that's what Curt said...I would have thought that the MO suburbs would have been better represented.
     
  9. rudeboy

    rudeboy Member

    Jul 5, 2001
    Kansas City
    Well Both me and my girlfriend are from JOCO, granted we are northern JOCO'ers. We are both white as can be, but we still showed up to watch our beloved Wizards exit the tournament in which after the first leg had no chance at recovering. Just remember, there is nothing different between someone from JOCO, or someone from KCMO accept for your address. Don't be a biggot just because you have to pay that extra 1% earnings tax and I don't.
     
  10. KCFutbol

    KCFutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 14, 2001
    Overland Park, KS
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well I live in NoJoCo too, but I have that @#$% 1% earnings tax. Taxation without representation!
     
  11. LSNsoccer362238

    LSNsoccer362238 New Member

    Dec 6, 2001
    Lee's Summit, MO
    I sat in GA and I believe my dad and myself were the only Americans in that entire area. Not to mention the people in the cauldron and myself and my dad were probbaly the only ones cheering for the wizards. When the Wizards scored about 10 mexicans looked at me like what the hell u dont know soccer...

    Yah well anyways Gringo is an insult and I learned that because I was told "go home gringo, you lost" a million times (which doesnt make much sence because Im the American in AMERICA and their Mexican...but oh well)
     
  12. rweb

    rweb New Member

    Apr 20, 2000
    Kansas
    As a Joco resident that sat in the middle of many Morelia fans in 118, I didn't witness anything other than fans cheering for their team. Granted, the crowd was about 60% Morelia fans, but when Brown scored it seemed that at least half the crowd jumped out of their seats cheering.

    As has been mentioned by others, there was no PR for this game. The front office has been pimping Saturday's game all week on 810. And it was a Wed game, early in the school year, vying with what was thought to be the last Royals game of the year.

    Frankly, I'm happy to see our community's Latin residents attending the games. Hopefully, more will make the Wiz their second team and attend more games. I'd rather sit next to a 'Mexican' who has passion for the game than a fat, white, Hooligan-wannabe.

    Adios.
     
  13. LSNsoccer362238

    LSNsoccer362238 New Member

    Dec 6, 2001
    Lee's Summit, MO
    very true. I just wish I knew what they were saying...when they stare at you and say something in a different language and laugh....ya gotta wonder.
     
  14. Wizardscharter

    Wizardscharter New Member

    Jul 25, 2001
    Blue Springs, MO
    Sheesh, who p*ssed in his Cheerios?
    We tied 1-1, two men down. Good result, why would I need a scapegoat? Simply, it would be nice to have more than 2k home fans for a Mexi game.
    Yeah. That's precisely what I think, how'd you guess? Then I usually let the air out of the tires and spit on the windsheild. Inside the stadium I make it a point to ask strangers where they live and "educate" them on the perils of having KS in your address. Then I go home, kick my dog, and make crank phone calls to people that wronged me in HS.
    (Posting again) My lisc plate is JO, KS. Most of my single friends live in JoCo. I lived there for 3 years with a JoCo gal. I hate driving there (BTW, ask Ben if I bitched about driving to his home for the WC), but still I do it often for work and play.

    The only thing you have ever heard me say or post is that I hate KU, the stadium situation is just fine, and there is a distinct lack of regulars at Mexi-games(This last one is glaringly evident if you sit outside the Cauldron). Everything else is you assuming. My assumption was believing numerous posts (by you and others) stating the majority of the season ticket base being from JoCo. BTW, there were many regulars for the TTO game. So, which is it? Is the ticket base that didn't show mostly from JoCo or not? You tell me. Flatly I couldn't care less where they are from. Don't tell me most of the regulars showed, they didn't. At best there were 2k KC fans there total.

    Clear your head and read this next sentence. The important part is they should have shown regardless of address. Why do you suppose they didn't? Check the attendance for the TTO game in Round 1. TTO didn't bring 4k fans with that Wed. The game wasn't widly marketed according to this board, so the leg 1 score shouldn't be overly relevant. Plus, in our fun with the crowd it seemed like everyone there knew the score of leg 1, friend and foe. It's still a night out. So what was the variable that was different? Hmmmm...

    The only other reason I'm accepting is that JoCo (or whoever the regulars are) decided to be Pied Pipered by Keitzman. Even that is still a decision NOT to show across the street. I'm the bigot though? Whatever. Had I found anyone else to go I would have sold 2 less tix to the Morelians (sans many other regulars) and enjoyed the game with them, like I've done every other time.
    You're stretching one statement pretty far. Your chain of logic, if you can call it that, breaks down at the first four words.
     
  15. mojo10

    mojo10 Member

    Mar 21, 2002
    Rocky Mtn Hi CO.
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Oh, how soon they forget. If the above statement was the Hispanic attendees' favorite comment, then maybe we should've talked the scoreboard folks into showing highlights from the US-Mexico WC 2002 match:USA has scoreboard, "Morelia" fans.......US 2-Mexico 0.
     
  16. Roush

    Roush Member

    Dec 19, 2001
    Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    All I've gotta say is...

    Dos a Cero. (Zero?)

    Chinga tu madre....
     
  17. Wizardscharter

    Wizardscharter New Member

    Jul 25, 2001
    Blue Springs, MO
    Attd. was 7800. 60% might be right on that side of the stadium. The end zone and the opposite side were Morelia heavy. Aggressively, 35% is probably closer to the KC crowd and that's 2730. Attd. for the Round 1 TTO match was 4360. That's 1500 additional KC people deciding not to show up. Plus the 2-4000 other regulars who show up to every other Wed game. Kietzman and being home at 9:30 is too late were the reasons? OK, if you say so.

    First they are not attending "games", just one game. Other than that I agree; as long as they show up in blue. BTW, do you wear blue to the games? It would help.

    Great, then bring a 'Mexican' with you every other game...ask him to wear blue also.

    From your judicial bench in 118, I'm sure it was hard to notice the non-fat, non-white people who went several sections out of their way to do the machismo march by the local of the "Hooligan wannabes". They probably just did that to trade recipes, huh?
     
  18. Wizardscharter

    Wizardscharter New Member

    Jul 25, 2001
    Blue Springs, MO
    Yet, another solid reason to take Spanish in HS.
     
  19. McGinty

    McGinty Member

    Aug 29, 2001
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Make sure its not Cruz Azul blue.

    I think the people across the tunnel were trying to fill in for the Chuy Gomez (the lemonade guy) who was throwing out the first pitch. The Cauldron got plenty of water, ice, and even a LEMON SLICE thrown at us when the punks in our section wouldn't let go of the flag, and Jace went to tell them to let it go. Some passion.
     
  20. Lucid

    Lucid Member

    May 17, 1999
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    K, well my peice of crap line didn't come across the way it was intended, but having just gotten back from the bars, the whole thing wasn't the best and most understandable arguement I have ever done. My assumptions of your anti-JC belief comes from many other arguements that we've had on here from those from the MO side, and seeing Blue Springs below your name led me to that assumption.

    But still.... your comment, "It's a shame that part of Johnson County can't be bothered to show up if there is a chance that there might be people with better tans than themselves attending. That's as nice as I can put it." That comment is way out of line. If I'm reading it correctly you are basically saying part of JC is afraid to come because of, or doesn't want to be associated with an event there is going to be "people with better tans", Mexicans, attending.

    And Ben I brought you into this conversation (I as well wasn't able to come, but because of work, not school) was to show that this non-JoCo resident was in a similiar situation as a JoCo resident, and couldn't attend. And to further prove a point was that this non-JoCo resident was formerly of JoCo, and that the JoCo resident is a fairly new JoCo resident from the MO side. My arguement that immediatly followed that statement was that we're all one city, we shouldn't seperate ourselves between county lines or even state lines. We're just not that different.

    If someone shows some anti-JC sentiment on these baords, I usually lump that person in with the people on the other side of the argument who I've had discussion with in the past. So if you say you're really not that far over on that side, so be it. Though it seems odd that someone with so much experience living in, and being around JoCo, hasn't realized that so many steretypes should be thrown out the window because they're pretty far from the truth.
     
  21. LSNsoccer362238

    LSNsoccer362238 New Member

    Dec 6, 2001
    Lee's Summit, MO
    Im in Spanish I...I can say maybe 10 words but cant put them in a sentence together so that kinda doesnt work.
     
  22. Wizardscharter

    Wizardscharter New Member

    Jul 25, 2001
    Blue Springs, MO
    Notice the word "part", I was never indicting the whole county or you personally. Whoever the ticket base is, the majority of that isn't leaving the house for some reason. It isn't school, the TTO game was mid-March, cool, and 5k showed up. I'd go one further and say that the Wiz brass at least partially agree with that assessment, (per this board) they spent little in English ads.

    From a biz perspective, if KC could have gained 5k more people for this game by advertising (making a 13k crowd). At this point all fixed costs are set, so all revenues beyond the ad cost becomes margin, read:profit. The revenue is $12ish avg/ticket, pkg and concessions, plus residual goodwill for a big crowd. $18 a head maybe? That's $90k minus ad cost to the bottom line. If it was even remotely possible, don't you think KC would have purchased the ads?
     
  23. rweb

    rweb New Member

    Apr 20, 2000
    Kansas
    No Wizardscharter, I don't wear blue to the games. I wear an old game-worn Preki jersey. And are you positive that the low attendence numbers for the game was caused by Joco staying home or following Keitzman across the parking lot. I wonder how many of the Morelia fans that showed up drove over from Joco. As a matter of fact, I recognized about a dozen that play soccer pickup games at fields in Olathe. And yes it's easy to tell them apart if you take your sheet off.
     

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