MLS Regular Season MVP

Re: Re: MLS Regular Season MVP

This is simply incorrect.

If Preki scores 80% of the time on penalty kicks, and Chris Klein (for example) scores 70% of the time, you're going to let Preki take every single penalty kick, because he is 10% more likely to score on the kick.

If, over the course of a season, your team draws six penalty kicks, Preki is going to garner 4.8 goals from those kicks. Klein would have scored 4.2 goals.

Although the difference between Preki and Klein shooting is pretty small (.6 goals), you're trying to say that Preki (or Ruiz, or whomever) deserves full credit for those goals because he is so good at them, when really he provides only a marginal improvement over the next guy.

 

Re: Re: Re: MLS Regular Season MVP

While I realize your numbers are an example, I understand what your saying. I'm not talking numbers though. Klein (for example) could have very well went 6 for 6 on penalties for all we know. The point about who gets to take PKs, free kicks, corners, etc is that each team chooses who is best and most consistant at each skill for obvious reasons (I hope you're not going to disagree with that). It just so happens that on most teams its someone different for each skill and in KC its the same player. And it appeared that voros was trying to take away from Preki's stats simply because he is choosen by the team to take all the set kicks.

And my reasoning for "full credit" for a PK goal is very simply that a goal counts the same on the scoreboard AND scoring charts whether it is from the spot or from 35 yards.

 

In my opinion, stats don't always mean everything. Sure, they mean a lot, but not everything. For example, Twellman was pushed around and closely marked quite a bit. The fact that he scored 15 goals this season shows his abilities, his tenacity, and his restraint from hacking the other team (although he did flip off the ref during one game in Naperville). Donovan also must have been a marked man during his stint, and Preki probably drew a bit attention as the season progressed too (however, I doubt anyone was really expecting him to torch people at the start of the season).

However, one stat which should get mentioned (as hasn't to this point) is the team's record with or without the player. This, I must admit, swings the vote in Preki's favor, since he didn't miss a game. Plus, the Earthquakes managed to get by for those 8 games without LD, and the Revs finished the season on a great streak, mostly without Twellman (and I would be hesitant on calling the Metros game "meaningless").

In my heart, I would give it to TnT for his great performance. But without Preki, nobody on KC would've produced (c'mon, Wolde Harris?). So my MVP vote would go to the Prekster.

 

I agree about stats. They aren't everything, there are many considerations that must go into an MVP vote. I just hope the past or the name doesn't sway voters. If they rightly feel that LD deserves the award, that is their opinion. But it would not be fair if people were voting for LD based on his status, name, celebrity, etc. I think it was generally accepted that by the All Star break LD hadn't put up an All Star performance, yet he still got on the team. I just hope the same doesnt happen here.

As for being marked men, Preki is just as marked as the other two. Even at the begining of the season he was. Maybe others didn't expect him to lead the league in points, but they still approached him as the main threat on the Wizards and marked him accordingly.

 

My 2 cents:

I voted for Razov. I personally hate Razov as a player, but watching Chicago a couple of times I gained a lot of respect for what he does on that team. He was the reason for their offense scoring goals a lot of the time, whether he scored them or not. He opened up the field for Ralph by holding the ball up and also stretched out the defense with his shot. Given that they excelled at the end of the season while San Jose sort of coasted I give it to him over Donovan in a close race.

As for Preki, yes he was the most important player on that team, but all in all what did they accomplish. They were the forth best team in the league. Sure he scored a lot of goals and had a lot of assists, but that's not the only thing going on here. I put a lot of weight into a team being successful and from what I think the wizards were only mildly successful. If I didn't think this way I would have probably voted for Spencer, because watching Colorado play he was their team, he was what made them good.

As for Taylor Twellman, although he's by far my biased choice (due to being a Revs fan), I couldn't vote for him after what the Revs did without him. The Revs are cruising right now without TnT and how valuable can he be if that's the case?

 

Year: Team final MLS overall position, Player final scoring table position

1996: Mutiny #1, Valderama #15 (17 assists)
1997: Wizards #2, Preki #1
1998: DCU #2, Etcheverry #8 (19 assists)
1999: Dallas #3, Kreis #1
2000: KC #1, Meola
2001: Fusion #1-T, Chacon #1
2002: LA #1, Ruiz #2

It looks like theres a point to be taken about the teams performance. No player has won the MVP on a #4 team. Furthermore, a serious case could have been made for Lassiter (#1 team) in 1999 when Kreis won from the #3 team. The two that stand out to me though are Valderama and Etcheverry. They both had huge assist numbers (that Preki has) and were low on the points table.

Just another example of all the factors that weigh into an MVP. I'd guess its going to be pretty close.

 

Yeah, but KC also sucked really bad when Preki was playing during the middle of the season, something like 9 games without a win or something. So that argument isn't as strong. Plus, you could argue that though the Quakes still won without LD, it might have been harder to do so. (I don't know if it was or not, but I'm just throwing that out there.) But with Preki winning the scoring title, I'd say he's going to get MVP this year.

 

So, you've gathered up the top five point-scorers in the league and called it a poll for the MVP? Is this a forwards-only competition? What about the midfielders or defenders who have stopped them from scoring more? The don't get flashy stats, but they are just as important. Armas, Bocanegra, hey, even Shalrie Joseph has been huge (isn't he a rookie? where's his name on the ROY ballot?). I don't know who else, because I haven't watched every game, but there has to be somebody out there who's dominated their team's play without leading in points. Stop arguing whether penalties are goals or not, because this is for Most Valuable Player, not Most Impressive Goalscorer. That said, if I can't vote for Armas I vote for Preki...

 

Hey, I mentioned Armas (not exactly sure if it was this thread or the other thread). But the simple fact is that defensive players don't often get the MVP awards for seasons (not just MLS, but most sports). A defensive players has to be absolutely dominating to win an MVP award. Meola did that, but no one else has been as dominant over a whole season. I absolutely agree though, if the exact definition of the MVP award was "the player whose team would collapse if he were not on the field" I'd say Armas and Preki are by far the top two.

StillKickin: Yeah, Preki was playing during the 9 game slide. But just like your statement ("might be harder for SJ to win when LD was gone") the same could have been said if Preki wasn't playing for KC. Maybe our skid would have been 15 games without a win, like you thats just an example. Point is, items like that get overly subjective. And in deciding an award that is already pretty subjective, anything objective you can pull and use as evidence is good.

After all the talk, I think my conclusion is this...
Quite a few players deserve consideration for the award; Armas, Preki, Donovan, Spencer, Razov, Twellman. All these guys play very important (or most valuable) roles on their teams. Its very difficult to claim with any accuracy, and in our cases without being biased , that any one of these players is more important or valuable to their team. So I think at the end of the day thats leading me to go to the stats as a sort of tie breaker.

The bigger question is when does the voting take place? If its this week I'd give the edge to Preki. If it happens during or after the playoffs and MLS Cup, then it will probably go to the player whose team finishes on top.

 

Thank you for bringing this up- there is way too much talk here about goals and what kind are worth what. This isn't the goal scoring award. It's the most valuable PLAYER. But that's part of why I think Preki deserves the award... he is not just a striker. He does more than his share for his team, and he's there week in and week out, at almost twice the age of many players out there.
Also, I was impressed that you recognized Shalrie Joseph's contributions this year. He is one of the unsung heroes this year, especially by fans other than revs fans.
Maybe Fire fans aren't all that bad after all...

 

Actually, Donovan didn't receive a single vote. Razov received 3.

 

Yes, I pointed this out earlier about defensive players (right or wrong) not getting the recognition of MVP in most sports. Only a performance like Meola's (0.92 GAA and 16 SO) can get a defensive player mentioned. Defenders would have an even harder chance of getting it. While the battle can be fought for defensive players all we want (I'm not doubting their importance one bit) the fact is that quantifying a defenders season is MUCH more difficult than quantifying an offensive players stats. Therefore making it easier to percieve that offensive players do more and thus they get the accolades. It's nothing new, and it won't change any time soon if ever.

 

But if this were all about the statistical impact of a player, couldn't you just write a computer algorithm that took into account things like goals, assists, win/loss while playing vs. not playing, etc and have it pick Preki? I mean, that's why these things are polls for people who are supposed to know what they are talking about, so they should be able to recognize the season's dominant player no matter what position he plays. I know it's hard, especially when you don't see all the games, but it seems a shame to have a Scoring Title winner and an MVP winner picked by the same basic criteria. Of course, the same goes for World Player of the Year (the Ronaldo vs. Roberto Carlos argument of last year, for example). Anyway, just sayin'...

I just threw Joseph's name in there because I've been impressed by the influence he has on NE's midfield and general play. He's a huge guy and he's always around the action, box-to-box, plus he scored a couple big goals near the end of the season. He should be on the Rookie of the Year ballot, even if he won't beat out Damani, because everybody talks about Clark, but Joseph has been just as solid. I don't know what the Revs fans think, though.