MLS Problems (R)

Discussion in 'MLS: General' started by sweeper5, Oct 5, 2003.

  1. sweeper5

    sweeper5 New Member

    Jan 4, 2003
    MLS will never be a top league if it does not sort out the following problems.

    1. Playing games on fields with football lines (MetroStars, Dallas, etc.), artificial turf, and little league fields (San Jose). It is almost impossible to play an attractive game of soccer with these conditions.

    2. Dumb, gutless referees who do not have the courage to enforce the rules of the game, and let big name players off the hook. Examples include Mathis contantly complaining to the referee during games without punishment, and Donovan who should have been sent off today in the game against the Metros.

    3. Getting more skilled players on the field, especially in the back. There are too many backs in MLS that are just big goons with very little skill, and the referees let the goons get away with murder.
     
  2. Mattinho

    Mattinho Member

    Jan 27, 2000
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The production of the games is terrible. It's even worse when you've been watching games from around the world all day and then you turn on an MLS game at night and you are left wondering why you have to put up with the absolute amateurish nature of the broadcasts.

    I'm sure not everyone notices it as I do, but when you watch as many games as I do it becomes painfully obvious.

    Just a few of the things that come to mind...

    1)Lineups given as the game is being played
    (I'm left trying to look at two things at once while at the same time trying to think about what's interesting about the lineup)

    2)Too often the camera is too far away leaving the viewer wondering if it is ants on the field or humans.
    (When my favorite player gets the ball I want to see what he's doing)

    3)Three people talking during a game!!! WTF is that?! With one person you are guarenteed absolute concentration from the announcer, with two you might get a little unimportant banter, but with three morons you get 5 minutes of meaningless banter, clueless opinions, and humorless humor. The announcers are bad enough and tasteless as it is that MLS should spare us by not multiplying it three times over!!!

    4)Worst of all, the camera is always at the wrong place at the wrong time, replays are always shown at the wrong place at the wrong time. For example, how many times has a scuffle occurred on the field and then suddenly the camera will switch away to show the reaction of the manager or someone holding the ball out of play and you're left cursing the TV because it's not showing the most controversial and important thing happening in the game. Get a clue to what the viewer wants to see TV man!!!

    **I realise that these problems are the fault of the production companies and/or networks yada, yada, yada... but MLS really needs to step in and get these things changed. The TV is the actual 'product' that the fans see, it should have been a priority from day one to do the TV thing right, but all these years later I'm still left wondering why there hasn't been even a splinter of improvement in this department. I can only wonder what neutral fans think when they flip through an MLS game. It must look so second rate, beacuse it does to me.
     
  3. Ted Cikowski

    Ted Cikowski Red Card

    May 31, 2000
    what I don't understand is that the Metro's PBP guy is great and Tommy Smyth is pretty good color guy - I think putting them together would improve the quality of the presentation 10 fold over the idiots they have now. Derrick Rae is good too, why not put him in the fold?

    I also think all the ESPN2 matches should be at attractive pitches/stadiums. Why are there games from Cardinal and Dragon stadiums? And when NFL starts - show matches from the places where there are no American football lines - DC, Columbus, LA (Miami Fusion, ahem). The schedule makers should look at this when they are making the schedule.


    As far as the refs go, they are terrible. But that won't change anytime soon. Wynalda pretty much summed it up when he said "if it was anyone but Donovan".....

    the parity crap has to go as well....breaking up teams for the sake of parity is stupid. MLS will never do anything Internationally as long as this keeps happening. The teams that had (moderate) International success were DC and LA - both teams with several talented players - and DC was torn apart while LA is just old.

    A larger salary cap would be nice as well.





    Anyway as much as I love MLS these are the main things that need to be changed.
     
  4. Goodsport

    Goodsport Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 18, 1999
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    &nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp It seems that this problem will be rectified for all the MLS teams within the next 5-6 years.


    -G
     
  5. jamesf24

    jamesf24 New Member

    Apr 16, 2000
    Brighton, MI
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    MLS already is a "top league".

    It's top 5 on this half of the globe, top 20 in the whole world.

    1.) New stadiums in LA & Columbus now

    2.) New stadiums in Dallas, NJ, Chicago & Colorado by 2006 - that's more than half the teams with their own stadiums by 2006, that's 10 years of the league's existense, which is better than any of us thought possible in 1996.

    3.) Talent has improved each and every year, and we proved that our talent, developed here, can "compete" with the rest of the world.

    I agree, I hate football lines, I'd like better officials (but no league is happy with it's officials - in any sport-), and I'd love to have better players.

    I disagree a little on the "goons" argument. That was true the first 3 or 4 years, but now there arent that many goons in MLS, still a few, but not anywhere near past levels. There is too much fouling though.

    I know we are getting a little spoiled, but we need to be patient and continue to support the league as it grows.

    James
     
  6. MLS3

    MLS3 New Member

    Feb 7, 2000
    Pac NW
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't like to complain about anything MLS for two reasons...

    1. Because its young and they are continueing to "fix" most of their problems along the way, like goodsport pointed out with the stadiums, we have 2 SSS already, one more in 2005, two more that are almost for sure in 2006 (Metros, Rapids), plus Chicago in 06 or 07 and DC United still looking for a place, plus San Jose and the re-doing of spartan stadium that has a real good chance of happening...plus new owners coming in, etc, you all know all of that...

    2. Because MLS is the greatest...ever

    anyways, i will do some "complaining", heres MLS Problems...

    The Refs Suck, and not just the normal everyone hates the refs no matter what, these guys really do suck...

    I'm a tradionalist so I do'nt like when teams change kits, colors, logos, names, especially cities, but the Burn and Revolution Logos/Badges really bug me, give the Burn Horse a shield behind it, and Revoluion, theres got to be a million people that can come up with a great, classy badge for New England, the color combo, the city, the tradition, the name of Revolution, they should have a great badge...

    Foreign Players, this will come with more time, but i'm only 20 so i think i hopefully got 50-60 more MLS seasons in me, might be less, done a lot of bad things for my body, shortend my life, anyways, foreign players, i think it should just be 5 foreign players per team, thats it, none of those classifications, etc, just you can have 5 players on your team that aren't americans, and then the 2nd part to that, and this comes with once all or most teams have their own owners, but those 5 foreign players are national teamers or stud youngsters from all over the world, yes, I want to see the Ronaldo's and Beckhams in MLS, it can only help our players and our league, especially if its regulated to 5 foreigners a team, plus i want all the teams to be able to get their own players, i like single entity except for that fact, allocations, MLS owning the contracts, etc, ridiculous...

    all that goes with increasing roster size, salary cap, youth acadamies, etc...

    Also want to see the best US players here, Howard, Friedel, Keller, Reyna, Sanneh, etc...

    last but not least, hah, i really want a single table, not because i'm a eurosnob, because i only watch two leagues MLS and EPL, and MLS came first for me, then i fell in love with soccer/football, but my reason for wanting it is cuz i want the 3 champions per season, and i think its fair, and i actually wish other US sports would do it...

    Supporters Shield (Best Team during the calendar season)
    MLS Cup (Best of the Best)
    US Open Cup (Best team in America)
     
  7. mellon002

    mellon002 Member

    Jan 24, 2003
    Towson, MD
    How are you supposed to have international success when you don't even have success at home? We must build here first and then worry about overseas. Parity is a great thing right now. Look at baseball, everyone hates the Yankees because year in and year out they are the best. We don't need the Burn sucking every year and some team winning MLS Cup over and over again.

    Everyone in America needs to see quality soccer and therefore parity must stay. It would be difficult to get rid of the salary cap now especially because there will be such a revenue gap between the Galaxy and almost everyone else in the league.

    Let's build the league here in America and then worry about the rest of the world later.

    MLS is doing a fantastic job right now. There isn't much I would change. I completely agree with the broadcast ideas though. ESPN2's coverage needs some work. But that will come when the league grows.
     
  8. onefineesq

    onefineesq Member+

    Sep 16, 2003
    Laurel, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Mellon makes a good point. We need to focus on MLS putting out the best product possible HERE, and then we can go forward from there. And parity is certainly a good thing. I love the quality of football in the main leagues in Europe, but I tell my Brit cousin in London all the time that i HATE the fact that you know that 1 of 3 teams will win the league title YEAR IN AND YEAR OUT. Add the Champions League to that equation, and you basically know which 5 or 6 teams will win that every year too. I like the fact that (insert your team name here) can win the title if their front office makes good moves and develops players better than the other teams. I CERTAINLY don't want another Yankees baseball situation in MLS. Its not good for a startup league like MLS.
     
  9. Bill Schmidt

    Bill Schmidt BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 3, 2003
    Washington, DC
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We can't have the Ronaldos and Beckhams from around the world when they're still developing prospects, even if we had more money to offer. This new FIFA transfer rule kills all of that. No players under the age of 18 can be transferred abroad. I had the opportunity to talk with the president of the Syracuse A-league team and he thought two of his new players were bound for "The Premier League," because they were so good and they were "only 25." Great, so if they left now, they could get a good 5 years in the EPL. A classic American thought, and why not? NFL players break into the league out of college around 23 years old. The rest of the world does not hold the same volume of academic opportunity. Players are identified by 6 yrs old, signed by 8. These days a future Ronaldo, or even Chris Sutton is a professional at 16, and worth too high a transfer fee for MLS by 18. When a player can jump from Brazil or Argentina straight to the Champions League, he will prefer to continue developing at home rather than be displaced to the U.S. for a year and then again to Europe.
     
  10. cliffkram

    cliffkram Member

    May 4, 2003
    Brum via NYC
    Your're talking about John Paul Dellacamera...he already is paired up with Lucky Leprechaun for ESPN's major broadcasts (UEFA, WWC, friendlies). I'm pretty sure he and Tommy covered half the games last year in World Cup (Jack Edwards covered the other half with Rob Stone maybe).
     
  11. 352gialloblu

    352gialloblu New Member

    Jun 16, 2003
    England
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    JP is one of the better announcers. Tommy Smyth is certainly a colorful guy, but he's not always the most accurate or illuminating commentator. Max Bretos and Rob Stone are annoying (Rob's okay behind a desk, but during the game).

    As for MLS other problems: Yes, of course the football lines, the bad refs, low-budget TV production and the not-as-good-as-Brazil level of play are things we could improve upon. But, for a 8-year-old league in a non-football country, we are doing really well. The level of play is getting better, the American players are getting better, and there are stadiums on the way. Single table and greater emphasis on the SS may only come when we get enough teams to play ~30 games evenly distributed (i.e. 16 teams-2 games against each). MLS management seems to be realizing that soccer fans like the way soccer is done in most of the rest of the world, because we've been getting closer to that standard every year. There were times when I wasn't sure we would reach year eight, and WUSA should remind us that we were right to play it cautious (contraction) and we have to be patient. We'll get there some day.
     
  12. harttbeat

    harttbeat Member

    Dec 29, 1998
    New York
    An All Football Line Lineup Games

    Friday, October 10th
    San Jose at Colorado
    Columbus at Chicago

    Saturday, October 11th
    D.C. United at New England
    Dallas at MetroStars
    Los Angeles at Kansas City

    Well, if you love football lines, you better tune in this week. An unbelieveable of lines for you to pick. White, Yellow, Black... can you feel it now? o boi
     
  13. FlashMan

    FlashMan Member

    Jan 6, 2000
    'diego
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I know this thread is about much more than JP but the whole whole "JP is a good announcer" myth really bugs me. The guy sux. He's constantly interjecting pathetic opinions into his PBP and his voice is horribly annoying.

    Just my opinion of course, and I realize it's a minority one.
     
  14. MasterShake29

    MasterShake29 Member+

    Oct 28, 2001
    Jersey City, NJ
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    JP is excellent. I love his voice, one of the best in any sport. Up there with Gary Thorne (baseball/hockey), Sam Rosen (NFL/hockey), and Mike Emerick (hockey). But you are entitled to your opinion.

    For the single table people (of which I am one), if MLS has 11 next year, a single table makes almost too much sense not to do it. 11 team table w/ 3 games versus the remaining 10 teams = 30 games. Perfect.

    Money does not necessarily equal success. Yes the Yankees are doing well, but even they have gone 2 straight years not winning the title, and in 2000 (when they did) Seattle had the best record by far (or was that 1999, I forget). And don't forget the Mets (who have money) have been terrible lately.

    But certainly MLS is moving in the right direction. So plaudits for that.
     
  15. Warren Van Orden

    Feb 29, 2000
    Richmond CA
    If you want to seem some truly awful camera work, check out Atlante vs San Luis next Sunday at 10AM on Telemundo. Those broadcasts from "Neza" are remarkably poor. Sure makes MLS on espn2 look great.

    (As a counterweight, the Televisa coverage of Mexican teams is among the best in the world, those are the ones that are carried here on Univision/Telefutura/Galavision.)
     
  16. mdesimone1

    mdesimone1 New Member

    Jul 26, 2000
    California
    Yawn...
     
  17. Fah Que

    Fah Que Member

    Sep 29, 2000
    LA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    I haven't seen anything new in this discussion.
     
  18. supersport

    supersport New Member

    Oct 17, 2001
    San Francisco
    I've got to agree. In spite of all its problems MLS is slowly making progress in all areas and that's what matters the most. Its not going to turn into Serie A, EPL, La Liga overnight. Each season a few more steps are taken and that's good enough for me. Football lines and bad annoucers, I can deal with, not having MLS around I can't.
     
  19. 352gialloblu

    352gialloblu New Member

    Jun 16, 2003
    England
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Of course, with an odd number of games against each team, you have to divvy up home field advantage somehow. If you had 12 in two conferences, you could play 20 conference games and 12 non-cons and have a good balence (32 games). I'm warming up to conferences because it helps rivalries, travel times, and playoffs (playoffs aren't going away). Once we get to ~16 we'll be okay. 11 will be a bit of a fudge any way you do it.
     
  20. MasterShake29

    MasterShake29 Member+

    Oct 28, 2001
    Jersey City, NJ
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They have a system to do it now. Pure random draw always works. And to account for the possibilty that you play the extra road game against the five toughest teams (unlikely but possible), you can still have eight teams in the playoffs. Although six would be a lot better. A team finishing 8th out of 11 winning the league title would be pretty embarassing.
     
  21. cliffkram

    cliffkram Member

    May 4, 2003
    Brum via NYC
    Single Table

    Here's why MLS doesn't use single table format: Uneven schedules. Why do England, Italy, France, etc all use single table formats? They all play even schedules-- a home-and-home with every other team, so the record is shown in respect to everyone else's. Any old old sports fans know that baseball used to use a single table format-- one American League and one National League, i think originally there was maybe 8 teams in each league and they played a 130-140 game schedule (maybe 20 against each team?) They also didnt have playoffs back then and the World Series was American League winner v National League winner (kinda like the SuperCup hehe :))
    If we only had 11 teams, it would not be an even schedule because of the homefield advantage one team would have over another. Play 2 against the other teams- you only have a 20 game schedule; play 4 and you have 40 games (too much considering USOC, Concacaf, etc). I don't think MLS will ever consider using single-table until at least 15 teams are in the league.
     
  22. HalaMadrid

    HalaMadrid Member

    Apr 9, 1999
    Because lord knows they don't do that for champions' league games or anything.
     
  23. Fah Que

    Fah Que Member

    Sep 29, 2000
    LA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Italy league has conferences in lower level.

    Serie C1 is divided into C1A and C2B
    Serie C2 is divided into C2A C2B and C2C.

    It is designed to save traveling cost and brew regional rivalries.

    US being a big country, having conferences can save time and money.

    There is no quick fix in improving the quality of play. MLS can spend big bucks on importing foreign players who might or might not pan out and the return of the investment definitely aren't worth the cost.

    Ultimately the quality of the play is going to depend on how good players are produced domestically. It depends on many things MLS has no control over, such the quality of coaches and level of competition in youth level. We need this generation of players to become the next generation of coaches. It will be a slow process. I expect the quality of play to go up and then level off and stagnate or very slow increase for many many years.

    I think MLS is totally on the right track now with the develop of SSS and youth marketing. MLS is not wasting any more resources trying to convert Joe-6packs into soccer fans and instead MLS is trying to build a future fanbase.

    Right now I have nothing to complain about.
     
  24. The Artist

    The Artist Member+

    Mar 22, 1999
    Illinois
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I imagine TV broadcasts would improve once somebody starts making money off them.

    MLS doesn't break up good teams for parity. They break up good teams to avoid losing more money on increasing salaries.

    Artificial turf will be non-existent in the league in two or three years.

    My only complaint is the lack of communication between some clubs and their most fervent supporters groups.
     
  25. Mattinho

    Mattinho Member

    Jan 27, 2000
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Exactly, it's ESPN who do the MLS style pregame for the Champions League, but not the camera work- which is brilliantly done by the way. What was your point?
     

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