MLS needs to start caring about the USMNT again

Yes - he left the USA to play soccer.

 

I think you're getting it backwards. Better players are more likely to get signed by a team outside the US, which leads to an increase in salary. Leaving, in of itself, doesn't make you more valuable to MLS when you come back. You have to go to a prestigious team to increase your value.

 

I think you see three tiers here.

1) The stars, who can make (or did make) big money in Europe (Bradley, Altidore).

2) The very good players (and by very good, I mean probably the bottom half of a top four league), who are on their second or third contract.. These are the players who used to have to leave to get paid but now MLS is competitive with salaries. Some of these players would like to go overseas for the challenge or the adventure while others would like to stay here because it's home. However, the world is full of this quality of player and so I don't expect most of these players to get offers to buy out their contracts.

3) Players on their first contract and so have the very low salaries. At some point they'll move into category 2 and have to make a decision about where they want to be.

The sense of the USMNT forum (FWIW) was that Zardes, Morris, Roldan, and Trapp weren't really international quality. This is debatable, but it does raise the question of how big of a problem is this? Are we just talking about 5 or 6 guys, most of them on their first contract?

 

The quick answer is probably not.

I think you have to take England out of the equation. Even bottom of the table clubs there are spending and average of $2mln or so per player. Plus the average age of a starter in the EPL is about 27 years. It is the exact opposite of a development league. It is packed with established, experienced pros. So no, I don't think even think an MLS side would be competitive. So take them off the board.

I think they would also have a really tough time in La Liga. Not quite the spenders that the EPL are, but the quality is clearly there. So, yeah I think even our best sides would struggle mightily to stay up.

The pay gap is less in Germany and Italy, but fighting for mid table with those sides? Yeah I don't see it.

It gets a little more feasible in France where a top 5 or so spending MLS side can spend with mid table teams, but the talent there is still so good. I think it would be tough. Do I think teams like LAFC, Atlanta, and Seattle could stay up, though? Yeah, I actually do.

Anyway, outside of playing some clubs in preseason friendlies, there is very little chance we'll ever really have anything more than a guess. Financially, though MLS is gaining ground really quickly on the bottom spenders in Italy, Germany and France. I know that isn't everything, but it does speak to one of your points (and I skimmed through this thread, so correct me if I'm wrong), which is that it would be somewhat easy for a lot of our fringe national team players to move to Europe and significantly increase their salary and improve their competitive environment. Financially, I think that is increasingly untrue and for a lot of the guys they are probably making at or near their market value (or above). Competitively, I think it's a crap shoot. We've probably seen just as many or more guys recently stall out and get passed by domestic based talent who are playing regularly in MLS.

That said, the point of this thread really is what MLS can be doing better. To me they are doing a lot now, but as many others have said, it takes time. Ten years ago, this league had 16 teams and all but 4 teams were spending less than $3 mln a year TOTAL on wages. All but one (LAG) were spending less than $5 mln. There wasn't money for really significant academies or USL affiliates by the vast majority of clubs. Since then the average and median payroll has increased 329 and 391% respectively, every club is now required to have an academy and a U-19 side and we have 13 sides with full USL affiliaes. Huge progress, but it is still in its infancy.

I also think the USSF made mistakes. Klinsmann was a nightmare from a development standpoint and I think the USSF relied too heavily on MLS academies and other club sides to develop talent while abandoning things like Bradenton. The best players got spread around for much of the year and you were asking a lot of relatively shallow pool of truly top class youth coaches.

Then you add in the fact that young organizations are going to make mistakes. USL sides that are now giving some of these young players decent professional experience in their teens is something that has really only come about in the last couple of years. Plus, while things like TAM have successfully brought in a much higher level of players in those 3 to 9 or so roster spots on MLS sides, the players being brought in are, by and large, attacking players. I think that has definitely contributed to much less opportunity for domestic players in those attacking positions. I mean, just take a look at the top goalscorer and assist lists for the league. That tells you all you need to know about the dearth of domestic attacking talent in the league right now.

Basically, I think we've seen what we'd call a pretty big growing pain for the development of domestic talent. On one hand, it is great to see the monetary investment being made in academies, USL sides, training facilities, scouting and the league in general. On the other hand, the rapid expansion, homegrown territory rules, a lack of national team residency program, and the massive influx of foreign attacking players due to TAM and quickly rising spending has left us with a pretty thin group of domestic based midfielders and forwards.

So what is the answer. In part, I think it is patience and continuing to do what we're doing. However, in part I also think changes need to be made. I mean imagine what would happen if we had a 21 year old American putting up the type of numbers that Carlos Vela is right now? I think THAT guy would absolutely set the league on fire (and he would make a pretty penny for his club). I'd certainly stand up and take notice.

So, other than what we are already doing, how do we improve the odds of producing that player in the next CBA? Well, I think one thing that could have a dramatic impact is eliminating academy territories. Let the players move to the best situation in the same way the top talent used to flock to Bradenton. That may hurt parity, but screw it. It does the league absolutely no good to let talent wither and die because they are a hostage to a crappy MLS academy setup or because that side doesn't fund a USL team. Let them flock to Red Bull, SKC, or Dallas. It is going to improve the environment even further at those places and competition for the best players is going to force everyone to increase their commitment to their own development infrastructure to keep the best players home. Plus, it will give teams more incentive to play young talent earlier and to sell that talent on in order to recoup their investment. Next, I think the USSF just has to do a better job, at every level. Coaching definitely needs to improve. At a grassroots level that is going to take time.

Anyway, sorry for the novel. I don't think the fix is as simple as moving more players to Europe or forcing teams to play more Americans. It also isn't a quick fix. However, it certainly isn't good for the sport in general or MLS in particular to have the USMNT playing like crap or for domestic based teams to be getting whacked around in front of 10,000 fans.

 

Well, once you leave the USA you play football.

Reggie Cannon is getting peanuts. A guy with his abilities in Europe would be making 10X as much.

 

Idk about that. At his age he’d likely still be on his first deal and it depends on the club he’s at. However, a guy with his abilities would be inline to make 10x as much on his next deal. His next deal in the MLS will still be peanuts.

 

He was a LA Galaxy academy player. He went straight from the Galaxy academy to a pro contract in Mexico after turning down a first-team contract with the Galaxy.

 

I really dont understand how MLS fans think. They seem over reactive and often dont see the big picture. I am seeing the kleibans attacked all over this site in many forums. I see people who believe that firing Brian was not only the obvious choice, but the only one.

I think firing Brian is quite short sighted. The guy has built a pretty good track record at developing players and have heard from those who have seen his teams play in person that they are on different level. Currently, he has three high levels prospects that he has coached for years and one of them has signed with LAG. They have the one who many believe to be the top prospect in Alvarez under contract. Why not be satisfied with that and the reputation it would build for the club. They would have a good reputation that would help them recruit players and their players would be scouted heavily. I'd argue that it was BK and not the LAG that developed Mendez and Llanez, so they have little claim to that credit. They will need to find another coach who doesnt have the track record and not sure the coaching ability.

The other part of all this hate toward the Kleibans that has me confused is why isnt there the same hate toward others that have sent players abroad. The most obvious one that I am surprised about is that I havent seen any anger toward the NYCFC sporting director. It seems much more egregious for a guy in charge of a club to send his son abroad than a brother of a coach. Why are these situations viewed so differently?

 

Put me in the camp that it was the only choice. I liked the hiring of Brian Kleiban, but my sense of the situation (and it's only a sense, although I think a reasonable one) is that Gary Klieban as an agent was so much against his players staying in MLS that it was untenable to have his brother involved with the youth program. Personally, I think it was unethical of Brian to stay; he should have resigned.

For an organization to function effectively, everyone needs to believe in the purpose and goals of the organization. If you have employees in significant positions who don't, then the organization as a whole can become disfunctional.

 

Why hasnt nycfc gotten rid of Reyna?

Your response is why this thread is here. Per your views, MLS has too much power. It was a long way of paraphrasing Garber telling Klinsmann to get in line with him.

Brian is obviously one of the top youth coaches in this country but he cant coach one of the top teams because his brother is an agent. That is a sign to me that the system is flawed. The crazy part of all this is that there is a clear global model for the game, MLS has ignored it, but every time they get competition of any form they conform more to that model. The sooner they stop thinking they are the top of the hill and entitled to things and build out a full system that includes quality player development, scouting, and smart selling of player they will be much closer to tyoe of league they claim they want to be.

Does Gary represent Efra?

 

I don't know enough about the NY situation to comment.

My understanding is that Gary does not represent Efra but does represent Hernandez-Foster who is unsigned (I don't know that we've made an offer to HF but since we've signed two other players recently and HF is the better prospect, I assume that we've made an offer)

The problem isn't just that Gary Kleiban is an agent. While his being an agent is a huge conflict of interest problem in and of itself, the problem goes beyond that. He is an anti-MLS, and hence anti-Galaxy, agent.

 

And I'll post this just for entertainment value.

The galaxy have cleaned house on the youth side and the new director for youth programs is...

Juan Carlos Ortega, former U-17 Mexico coach and director of development at Chivas de Guadalajara.

He is very familiar with the global model and the international game so you guys should be happy!

 

He’s also very likely to have a high familiarity with the LA youth soccer scene as well. He’s worked with te’Klosse at both Chivas and the FMF.

The biggest hurdle that the Galaxy have had in the past is bridging the path between their academy, Los Dos, and most importantly the steps from Los Dos to he Galaxy first team. That last step has really alluded them, and prevent3d the Galaxy from taking full advantage of the young talent in their own back yard.

 

This could be a good solution for LAG fans.

This gives USMNT fans something to be potentially concerned about.

 

Gary is against the structure. A structure that is not good for the USMNT or soccer in general in this country. It is a structure that provides owners short term security and compensation. I also think it limits the owners long term profits. I think his views have some validit, wish MLS would try to understand them, and evolve accordingly.

LAG has lost players just like most clubs. There is a conflict if interest and disagreement with the league structure by a family member, but the Gakaxy have still signed two of the top prospects eligible for the 2021 u20s.... one Brian developed and another that he recruited.

 

Huh?!?

 

MLS rules for non-HGP players certainly make no sense for a situation like that of Aaron Long. Yes, he was drafted. Yes, he was with multiple teams. But mostly he was passed around and nobody gave him much time. It was NYRB that really invested in him and put him in a situation to succeed. Yet the rules say that 30% of his transfer goes to MLS. Basically, NYRB just don't have a good incentive to sell him.

 

I have said many times that it makes much more financial sense for MLS to develop the next big Mexican star than American.